Sean Couturier Part III

[Curufinwe]

Came for 3rd line center talk. Much success.

The team is in a tough spot with Couturier as a 3rd line center, Konecny a 4th line winger, and Provorov only a second pairing guy.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The team is in a tough spot with Couturier as a 3rd line center, Konecny a 4th line winger, and Provorov only a second pairing guy.

And Simmonds or Voracek as a second liner.

 

[Johnk0728]

Nobody is relying solely on analytics. You cant rely solely on points either. Sam Gagner outscored Couturier this year, do you genuinely believe Gagner is a better player?

Never said to rely solely on points....but hockey analytics are not as effective as baseball. Because baseball is based on a face to face matchup whereas hockey is a completely different game. The flawed analytic measures in hockey are proven when as ineffective a player like Dale Weise was during his first season as a Flyer shows up scoring well under some formulas. Weise sucked but yet BSH had an article trying to tell people that what they are seeing as ineffective hockey was really not....pure ********. I remember one game Striker posting being happy that Couturier had a controlled entry during a game that was nothing more than a dump in before a line change..... If that action is measured at all than what are we doing...

 

[Johnk0728]

Matt Read outperforming Couturier in a single metric discounts statistics for you?


So, in your argument against cherrypicked stats, you cherrypick a single stat.

The idea that Matt Read shows up at all is the issue. Matt Read is a nothing NHL player. Hockey analytics are trying to measure a game by inventing what they perceive as positive actions. Puck possession is an example. A grinder gains the blue line goes to corner and turtles and tries to cycle puck but ends up losing the puck leading to a opposite rush. He scores well in puck possession. But not in hockey because he ended up on the other end of the puck after overstaying a shify. Hockey is measured in chances for and chances against.... All the other analytics are too flawed IMHO.

 

[Rebels57]

The idea that Matt Read shows up at all is the issue. Matt Read is a nothing NHL player. Hockey analytics are trying to measure a game by inventing what they perceive as positive actions. Puck possession is an example. A grinder gains the blue line goes to corner and turtles and tries to cycle puck but ends up losing the puck leading to a opposite rush. He scores well in puck possession. But not in hockey because he ended up on the other end of the puck after overstaying a shify. Hockey is measured in chances for and chances against.... All the other analytics are too flawed IMHO.

That makes no sense.

Puck possession (Corsi) is measured using Shots For vs Shots Against.

You cant just skate into the corner and eat up clock and earn possesion points.

You do know this right??

 

[Stizzle]

Hockey is measured in chances for and chances against.... All the other analytics are too flawed IMHO.

Yes, chances. You know what Corsi is? A fancy word that pretty much just measures how many net chances your team has to score while taking shots towards the goal when a player is on the ice.

You know who is really, really good at getting chances for his team, and limiting chances for the other team?

 

[Rebels57]

Yes, chances. You know what Corsi is? A fancy word that pretty much just measures how many net chances your team has to score while taking shots towards the goal when a player is on the ice.

You know who is really, really good at getting chances for his team, and limiting chances for the other team?

Based on his comment I can only assume he didnt know what Corsi is.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

That makes no sense.

Puck possession (Corsi) is measured using Shots For vs Shots Against.

You cant just skate into the corner and eat up clock and earn possesion points.

You do know this right??

The globs of hair gel eventually seeps into the brain.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The idea that Matt Read shows up at all is the issue. Matt Read is a nothing NHL player. Hockey analytics are trying to measure a game by inventing what they perceive as positive actions. Puck possession is an example. A grinder gains the blue line goes to corner and turtles and tries to cycle puck but ends up losing the puck leading to a opposite rush. He scores well in puck possession. But not in hockey because he ended up on the other end of the puck after overstaying a shify. Hockey is measured in chances for and chances against.... All the other analytics are too flawed IMHO.

You don't even understand what you're arguing here.

• No one tracks raw possession time. Your grinder example has no basis in reality.
• Shots (Corsi/Fenwick) are used as a proxy for possession. That's what people mean when they say possession metrics.
• Chances are no less subjective than Controlled Zone Entries. It's a nebulous term at best.

At least read enough to understand the concepts you're trying to evaluate.

 

[Daveyyaunce]

Never said to rely solely on points....but hockey analytics are not as effective as baseball. Because baseball is based on a face to face matchup whereas hockey is a completely different game. The flawed analytic measures in hockey are proven when as ineffective a player like Dale Weise was during his first season as a Flyer shows up scoring well under some formulas. Weise sucked but yet BSH had an article trying to tell people that what they are seeing as ineffective hockey was really not....pure ********. I remember one game Striker posting being happy that Couturier had a controlled entry during a game that was nothing more than a dump in before a line change..... If that action is measured at all than what are we doing...

The numbers show that Couturier plays heavy minutes against top players in the league generally outscores his competition. That's about as head to head as it gets, no?

 

[Tripod]

The numbers show that Couturier plays heavy minutes against top players in the league generally outscores his competition. That's about as head to head as it gets, no?

No, no, no, because that's +\- and is a flawed stat too.

It's funny to see a guy who gets PAID to know about hockey, know so little. No wonder the casual fans are so uninformed when their source of info is someone who is uninformed themselves.

It's like a deaf person teaching proper pronunciation to a child.

 

[Daveyyaunce]

No, no, no, because that's +\- and is a flawed stat too.

It's funny to see a guy who gets PAID to know about hockey, know so little. No wonder the casual fans are so uninformed when their source of info is someone who is uninformed themselves.

It's like a deaf person teaching proper pronunciation to a child.

I mean I get that on their own, individual anylitics don't paint a complete picture but when used with the correct context, it allows you to quantify what the eye test doesn't. I feel like people either don't understand what the numbers mean or don't agree with them so they get written off entirely. It's a shame that something that's already a niche sport has to have such uninformed representation in the media. Makes my skin crawl anytime I hear hockey discussion on the radio.

 

[Chinatown88]

No, no, no, because that's +\- and is a flawed stat too.

It's funny to see a guy who gets PAID to know about hockey, know so little. No wonder the casual fans are so uninformed when their source of info is someone who is uninformed themselves.

It's like a deaf person teaching proper pronunciation to a child.

He's the real Boruk?

 

[Ruck Over]

You know who is really, really good at getting chances for his team, and limiting chances for the other team?

Based upon my previous post, dated 8/9/17, which was commended as a great post, the best post. This is all the evidence needed that Couts is not a great player.

As the last sentence of that magnificent post, so many people loved that post, there was more than one positive response to that post. I did not see any negative replies to that post, it is such a great post. As the last words said, "(Unless that detriment is a lack of front teeth for formal headshot photographs for "Happy full smile of teeth" magazine.)"

This photo clearly shows Couts, this make-pretend savior does not even have his two front teeth. Isn't there a Christmas song about this? Because Couts is lacking at least his two front teeth (possibly three or four teeth), he will never appear on the cover of the make pretend "Happy Full Smile of Teeth" Magazine, a tragic, epic, horrible, frightening, pathetic loss. He is not the hero you deserve, he is not the hero you need. Wanton abandonment of common care and dental awareness have left him mangled, broken, and disgusting. Those missing two front teeth are easily good for 40 goals a season, and likely another 30 assists.

Again, everyone already knows this is true, my previous post was lauded as being solid, and great, it's just really fantastic. What kind of healthcare does Couts even have?

 

[Flyotes]

Okay. That's pretty good.

 

[BritainStix]

I heard that Coots is banging Giroux's wife and eats babies whole through the gap in his teeth. That's why G had a down year and he's never had his teeth fixed.

Can anyone confirm or deny?

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Based upon my previous post, dated 8/9/17, which was commended as a great post, the best post. This is all the evidence needed that Couts is not a great player.

As the last sentence of that magnificent post, so many people loved that post, there was more than one positive response to that post. I did not see any negative replies to that post, it is such a great post. As the last words said, "(Unless that detriment is a lack of front teeth for formal headshot photographs for "Happy full smile of teeth" magazine.)"

This photo clearly shows Couts, this make-pretend savior does not even have his two front teeth. Isn't there a Christmas song about this? Because Couts is lacking at least his two front teeth (possibly three or four teeth), he will never appear on the cover of the make pretend "Happy Full Smile of Teeth" Magazine, a tragic, epic, horrible, frightening, pathetic loss. He is not the hero you deserve, he is not the hero you need. Wanton abandonment of common care and dental awareness have left him mangled, broken, and disgusting. Those missing two front teeth are easily good for 40 goals a season, and likely another 30 assists.

Again, everyone already knows this is true, my previous post was lauded as being solid, and great, it's just really fantastic. What kind of healthcare does Couts even have?

You forgot about Coots' incredibly, miniature hands

 

[Stizzle]

 

[Johnk0728]

Apple,
Those stats are not accepted by everyone as end all. On this board, you have an audience. 39 points is not great offensive production....sorry. But this is the year that Couturier will be able to prove himself with 28 & 93 as wingers on the first line. Let's see how he does facing other teams top D and defensive forwards. I am a Flyers fan and hope he goes off. But the excuses are over now....time for him to produce real stats like goals and assists and wins. Not analytics...

 

[Johnk0728]

Fwiw...I have seen two pre season games live and Couturier looked real good up there.......we will see. Nolan Patrick is the guy that I am worried about. His skating looks affected by the injury still.

 

[Rebels57]

Haha he is still at it.

Refuting every underlying statistic to back up his unsubtantiated claims.

 

[Stizzle]

I am a Flyers fan and hope he goes off. But the excuses are over now....time for him to produce real stats like goals and assists and wins. Not analytics...

The initial 4 columns listing stats are goals and assists. As you put it, real stats.

 

[ybnvs]

Fwiw...I have seen two pre season games live and Couturier looked real good up there.......we will see. Nolan Patrick is the guy that I am worried about. His skating looks affected by the injury still.

Edit: I don't know how to use this f***ing forum anymore. I can't write simple tags.

 

[kudymen]

Haha he is still at it.

Refuting every underlying statistic to back up his unsubtantiated claims.

...while replying to someone else than the person who posted it here. Brilliant.

 

[Johnk0728]

Boys....the time of reckoning is here. No more 3rd line 5 on 5 bullsheet. He is on the first line now. We will see how does.