With the way Pavelec has played this season outside of mid-November to early December, an average goalie would feel like a savior.
Post-Game Talk: "Scheifele wins the draw, Ladd shoots it high!" And other ref stories. Jets fall 4-3.
- Thread starter alchemyindex
- Start date
- Status
With the way Pavelec has played this season outside of mid-November to early December, an average goalie would feel like a savior.
I suggest you look at the bolded part. I won't disagree that Pavs bears the majority of the blame but you suggest he deserves all of it.
pucka lucka
Registered User
You think cherry picking a couple of Resurrections posts wins you a prize? You didn't include any of Resurrections posts where he acknowledges other weaknesses of the Jets. Why? Disingenuous? Ignorance? Deception? I honestly don't know what the reason is. You made the claim that many people here only blame Pavelec for our losses. Your evidence doesn't hold up.
Should we say blame the forwards for not scoring 5 goals? Do we need to talk chaos theory to absolve Pavelec? A butterfly in Brazil caused Pavelec to allow X bad goals?
Joe Hallenback
Moderator
- Mar 4, 2005
- 15,416
- 21,701
Romang67
BitterSwede
Mathmew Purrrr Oh
#meowmeowmeowmeow
well I'm sure Thor, Wright, and Stu will all be signed for multi-year extensions
tho I guess Stu is the only polarizing figure amongst those players
pucka lucka
Registered User
This is called playing games. Some of us just like to understand the world. Winning arguments by playing with words doesn't do anything for me.
The bolded part said it wasn't a team loss. It isn't. This is Pavs loss. You're kind of nit picking but it's true. It's fair for me to say Pavs lost us this game but, it's not literally 100% of his fault.
tbcwpg
Moderator
- Jan 25, 2011
- 16,286
- 19,256
It's not attempting to win an argument with wording, I'd suggest that if I had said "The defence is the reason we lost" I would be subject to some very harsh posts suggesting I've absolved Pavelec of blame. I wasn't even the one debating Resurrection so I'm not trying to win anything here.
How about saying the majority of the blame goes to Pavs? the black and white nature of your posts certainly leaves the impression that you believe Pavs is 100% responsible. Mentioning the team's other deficiencies does not dilute the problem Pavs causes the Jets.
Andy6
Court Jetster
It's true that if he played his 100% best, we likely would have won it, but the same could be said for other players as well ... it's just that when a non-goalie isn't 100% the consequences are not as easy to trace or understand as they are for a goalie.
I am not seeing much difference in the quality of play of Pavelec and the quality of play of goalies we are facing. He seems pretty standard-issue for an NHL starter from that perspective. Thinking back, I wouldn't have traded his level of play for that of the opposing goalie all that often (last night, maybe, but even there he was only worse by a bit). I realize that the numbers sometimes suggest that he is not a great goalie, but I am sceptical about how much numbers can capture in hockey and in this case the numbers clearly reflect some combination of team defensive play and goalie play.
They're dropping like flies!
nah they're useless UFA's...we won't have to worry about them after this season....unless....
Oh dear god nooooooo!
pucka lucka
Registered User
Except nothing you are saying is true. Take a gander.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLGAGALL&sort=savePercentage&viewName=summary
My new opinions is that I've determined its a frequent compounding of "softening" the facts that leads to people not calling Pavelec what he is, terrible.
this is a perfect example.
"The numbers sometimes suggest that pavelec is a "not great" goalie"
While technically true, its not quite as accurate as the whole truth:
"The numbers always confirm that Pavelec is a below average goalie."
it's the little difference between these two statements added up that leads to the disconnect. It may not seem like a big deal, but when it's done with everyone of his faults it compounds into people saying "well he's not a "great" goalie." or "well i'm sure there are outliers" or "well the stats aren't always right" or "he isn't ALWAYS bad".
The point being for pavelec to not be terrible, the stats would have to actually always be wrong. His norm would have to always be what is his outlier. Every pavelec focused situation would have to be an "exceptional" situation.
Over the last 5 years, Pavelec has never been above average as a goaltender. While i suppose Below Average could also be described as "not great", "not great" can describe a number of performances far better then Below Average. It's only a half trout. Pavalack has been "not good". he has been "not average". he has been "bad". all of these are more accurate statements then "not great"
pucka lucka
Registered User
CaptainChef
Registered User
Wish I had a picture of an ostrich because anyone who is still making these sort of arguments is just totally ignoring the obvious - he's a minor league quality starting goalie (NHL back-up) now & he has been most of his career.
Sorry Pavs supporters, a goalie owns his save % (not the team). That's been proven time and again. Pavs save percentage has consistently been at least 10 percentage points below league average & at the NHL level THATS HUGE.
tbcwpg
Moderator
- Jan 25, 2011
- 16,286
- 19,256
I don't think "Pavs supporters" exist here, they're just a boogeyman made up by some people who choose to largely ignore the other problems with the team in favour of consistently pointing out Pavelec's subpar save percentage and numerous poor tendencies and habits. It's a (and I hate this word since it's overused) strawman argument that has been created and argued against by many that somehow posits that those of us pointing out the defensive failings of the team somehow make us supporters of Pavelec. Too many people have made it a black and white issue.
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
The weakest links in the chain will always exist, and they will be the weakest links.
Well, if you sort that by GP or TOI he's Top 10!
BTW: It's ridiculous that this team continues to ride the 60th best SV% goalie in the league like this. Unconscionable. If Pavs plays more than 50% of the remaining games, then we have to assume that a) Noel and Maurice are both incompetent; or b) Some other mysterious figure is behind this...
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
I told myself that this would be the final year I look for the possibility of improvement from Pavelec.
The season is not yet up. I will still give Pavs the chance... but time is running out.
The season is not yet up. I will still give Pavs the chance... but time is running out.
Of course, less Pavelec = more wins, so there will probably be less kvetching in general. More parade route talk, maybe?
veganhunter
Mexico City Coyotes!
From what I understand the correlation between Sv% and team is teeny-tiny, Pavelec has had a below average Sv% his entire career (save for 1 season) = Pavelec isn't very good regardless of the team playing in front of him or He has some how managed to play on teams with historically bad defences his entire career. Am I missing something here?
- Status
