Post-Game Talk: "Scheifele wins the draw, Ladd shoots it high!" And other ref stories. Jets fall 4-3.

[YWGinYYZ]

His is based on reality. Pavelec is a bad goalie. The teams defence doesn't change that. It just changes the amount of goals he lets in. It's pretty straightforward.

Ding-ding-ding! Winner.

Better goalie / lower SV% == lower GAA with same SA. Better D / lower SA with same goalie / SV% == lower GAA. It's pretty simple. Both help.

PS to all: there's a great Pavs discussion going on here http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1581435

 

[Romang67]

The problem is you are insinuating they either position have equal weight. I hate that line of reasoning. This isn't grade school.

But you're arguing that his fixation on Pavelec being to blame is never wrong... Things aren't black and white like that. This isn't grace school.

 

[pucka lucka]

Right, the reality that the only player who is responsible when the team loses is the goaltender.

No one says that. You are saying that. What's your stake in Pavelec being a good goalie?

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

But you're arguing that his fixation on Pavelec being to blame is never wrong... Things aren't black and white like that. This isn't grace school.

I dunno, you seem like a charming fellow

 

[abax44]

2 goals Pavelec should have been better on the 1st one and 4th one
2 goals the Jets just didn't do anything on and Pavelec had not chance on them


Either way you slice it. If Pavelec is better he can stop those 2 or if the Jets are better you can stop those 2. The Jets win this game if 1 of the 2 above are better.

You can dump on Pavelec and rightly so but you also have to dump on the Jets D zone coverage. It was piss poor on both those goals.

I agree, although I thought it was the 1st and 3rd he could've had. A lot of breakdowns on the 3rd one too. 2nd goal was the 4 pass goal and the 4th hit a stick and then a body before it even got to the net.

 

[Romang67]

I dunno, you seem like a charming fellow

I agree with this. I'm completely at a loss for what made you say it, but I'm not one to pass up an opportunity to pump my own tires.

Edit: Ah! I see it! Well, if it results in me getting compliments, I'm not changing it.

 

[RonJon]

His is based on reality. Pavelec is a bad goalie. The teams defence doesn't change that. It just changes the amount of goals he lets in. It's pretty straightforward.

I wanted Monty to start last night, I want him to start on Friday. I am no way a Pav supporter but neither will I crucify him for last nights loss. A goalie is the last line of defense but here has to be breakdowns from 1 to 6 players on the ice at the time of a goal. Jets had WAY too many breakdowns as a TEAM....Pav was just there at the end of the breakdown. He is a sub-par goalie and had a horrible game, but so did about 12 other players. If you have a sub-par goaltender you best have an above par defense and defensive system. Its pretty straight forward.

 

[pucka lucka]

I wanted Monty to start last night, I want him to start on Friday. I am no way a Pav supporter but neither will I crucify him for last nights loss. A goalie is the last line of defense but here has to be breakdowns from 1 to 6 players on the ice at the time of a goal. Jets had WAY too many breakdowns as a TEAM....Pav was just there at the end of the breakdown. He is a sub-par goalie and had a horrible game, but so did about 12 other players. If you have a sub-par goaltender you best have an above par defense and defensive system. Its pretty straight forward.

Why act like this is about one game? Motorized wheeled goal posts.

 

[pucka lucka]

I agree with this. I'm completely at a loss for what made you say it, but I'm not one to pass up an opportunity to pump my own tires.

grace school? all i got

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I am all for starting Montoya I just don't think it makes a lick of difference long term.

There was a stretch in late December/early January where Montoya had the ball. I thought he was okay but it was clear he couldn't carry this team.

I don't think people get it or will accept that if you want to win and win consistently in this league you have to play a certain way and most of the time that way is mistake free. The Jets made 2 huge mistakes by numerous players on 2 shifts that resulted in easy goals. You take that away and we win regardless of the crap Pavelec lets in.

We don't have a great goalie or even an average one so you have to play mistake free.

That is the Jet's reality. There is no saviour in the minors coming up(Although I would like to see Pasquale given a chance). If they do make a trade you are getting a backup that has to prove he can be a starter.

Unless they throw money at Miller or Hillier in the off season the Jets have to play a certain way in order to win.

 

[pucka lucka]

I am all for starting Montoya I just don't think it makes a lick of difference long term.

There was a stretch in late December/early January where Montoya had the ball. I thought he was okay but it was clear he couldn't carry this team.

I don't think people get it or will accept that if you want to win and win consistently in this league you have to play a certain way and most of the time that way is mistake free. The Jets made 2 huge mistakes by numerous players on 2 shifts that resulted in easy goals. You take that away and we win regardless of the crap Pavelec lets in.

We don't have a great goalie or even an average one so you have to play mistake free.

That is the Jet's reality. There is no saviour in the minors coming up(Although I would like to see Pasquale given a chance). If they do make a trade you are getting a backup that has to prove he can be a starter.

Unless they throw money at Miller or Hillier in the off season the Jets have to play a certain way in order to win.

Hiller is about an average goalie. I don't think we need to throw a lot of money for average. It's better than what we got though.

 

[RonJon]

I am all for starting Montoya I just don't think it makes a lick of difference long term.

There was a stretch in late December/early January where Montoya had the ball. I thought he was okay but it was clear he couldn't carry this team.

I don't think people get it or will accept that if you want to win and win consistently in this league you have to play a certain way and most of the time that way is mistake free. The Jets made 2 huge mistakes by numerous players on 2 shifts that resulted in easy goals. You take that away and we win regardless of the crap Pavelec lets in.

We don't have a great goalie or even an average one so you have to play mistake free.

That is the Jet's reality. There is no saviour in the minors coming up(Although I would like to see Pasquale given a chance). If they do make a trade you are getting a backup that has to prove he can be a starter.

Unless they throw money at Miller or Hillier in the off season the Jets have to play a certain way in order to win.[/QUOTE]

Ding Ding Ding....Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.

 

[Bartho]

No one says that. You are saying that. What's your stake in Pavelec being a good goalie?

Um...

Maybe you just dont get it. By blaming the team as well as Pavelec last night you're creating a false equivalence to take heat off Pavelec.

And I have no stake in Pavelec being a good goalie. In fact if you look at the top of page 3 of this thread you'll see this:

I missed the game winner but from what I saw Pavs gave up terrible goal and one one bad goal. The 2nd was on the whole team. Throw in some poor defensive play and utterly terrible reffing and you have a recepie for a disappointing loss.

Scheifele looked fantastic at least.

One would have to imagine Monty will get the start on Friday and if he does, I hope he plays well because I'm going to the game.

 

[tbcwpg]

Hiller is about an average goalie. I don't think we need to throw a lot of money for average. It's better than what we got though.

Hiller will get money thrown at him, probably by Edmonton or a similar team. He will be overpaid. I'd rather stay out of the Hiller sweepstakes.

 

[Bartho]

I am all for starting Montoya I just don't think it makes a lick of difference long term.

There was a stretch in late December/early January where Montoya had the ball. I thought he was okay but it was clear he couldn't carry this team.

I don't think people get it or will accept that if you want to win and win consistently in this league you have to play a certain way and most of the time that way is mistake free. The Jets made 2 huge mistakes by numerous players on 2 shifts that resulted in easy goals. You take that away and we win regardless of the crap Pavelec lets in.

We don't have a great goalie or even an average one so you have to play mistake free.

That is the Jet's reality. There is no saviour in the minors coming up(Although I would like to see Pasquale given a chance). If they do make a trade you are getting a backup that has to prove he can be a starter.

Unless they throw money at Miller or Hillier in the off season the Jets have to play a certain way in order to win.

Very well said.

 

[pucka lucka]

Um...



And I have no stake in Pavelec being a good goalie. In fact if you look at the top of page 3 of this thread you'll see this:

Thanks for making my point for me.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

Hiller will get money thrown at him, probably by Edmonton or a similar team. He will be overpaid. I'd rather stay out of the Hiller sweepstakes.

yes!

 

[wpgallday1960]

Thanks for making my point for me.

Actually, he directly contradicted your assertion that no one said that pavelec was entirely responsible for the loss. Resurrection has stated in at least two posts that the loss was all on Pavs last night and even criticized other posters for sugggesting otherwise.

 

[pucka lucka]

Actually, he directly contradicted your assertion that no one said that pavelec was entirely responsible for the loss. Resurrection has stated in at least two posts that the loss was all on Pavs last night and even criticized other posters for sugggesting otherwise.

No, he didn't.

 

[Bartho]

[mod]

Thanks for making my point for me.

And what point is that? The one where you said no one is stating that the goaltender is the only player who is responsible when the team loses?

Or the one where you implied I have some personal stake in Pavelec being a good goalie?

 

[wpgallday1960]

No, he didn't.

Are you referring to Bartho or Resurrection?

 

[White Out 403*]

Actually, he directly contradicted your assertion that no one said that pavelec was entirely responsible for the loss. Resurrection has stated in at least two posts that the loss was all on Pavs last night and even criticized other posters for sugggesting otherwise.

I did no such thing. I think you're confusing "he's the reason we lost" and "He's the entire reason we lost". Of course if the D managed to be perfect we'd have won. But the biggest problem last night, and by a HUGE margin was Pavelec. It's not even close.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Are you referring to Bartho or Resurrection?

All: discuss Pavs, Monty, Scheifele, the rest of the Jets, the Preds, or the bubble gum under the seats in the Jets dressing room, but do not discuss other posters.

Also, I'll remind everyone that there's a Pavs thread here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1581435

This thread will be locked when the pre-game thread is posted, so why not carry on the Pavs discussion in the Pavs thread?

 

[tbcwpg]

I did no such thing. I think you're confusing "he's the reason we lost" and "He's the entire reason we lost". Of course if the D managed to be perfect we'd have won. But the biggest problem last night, and by a HUGE margin was Pavelec. It's not even close.

Would you not agree that the phrase "He's the reason we lost" is pretty much the exact same phrase as "He's the entire reason we lost"? The first phrase says the same thing but omits the redundant "entire" from the sentence. It was confusing, for sure.

I would agree with Joe Hallenback that I'd put the 2nd goal more on the d than Pavelec, and I think they're equally to blame on the 4th.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

All: discuss Pavs, Monty, Scheifele, the rest of the Jets, the Preds, or the bubble gum under the seats in the Jets dressing room, but do not discuss other posters.

Also, I'll remind everyone that there's a Pavs thread here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1581435

This thread will be locked when the pre-game thread is posted, so why not carry on the Pavs discussion in the Pavs thread?