Rumor: Sakic says Duchene offers aren't good and he may stay with Avalanche

[Do Make Say Think]

On one side you have to think most GMs are trying to leverage the fact that Colorado was garbage this year and that Duchene isn't happy in their offers.

On the other you have Sakic who knows how good Duchene is and isn't ready to let him go for less than what he wants.

Both sides make a lot of sense but Sakic is the one who has his finger on the button. Also a lot of this is on Roy bailing on his team (AGAIN!) at the worst possible time: I have to think that Sakic believes that last year was an anomaly which is a reasonable position.

 

[Kalv]

Well Droin situation was a mess as well and it turned out not THAT bad affter all, but I have a feeling Duchene is seriously unhappy of how this has gone down so far and about the situation (Avs) as a whole.

 

[Freudian]

Call me crazy, but I prefer to let this play out before evaluating how anyone did.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The only thing with a UFA is closer they get to free agency, the lower the cost will be, unless you can get them to sign an extension with the trade. This summer is the prime-time to move Duchene, so probably best to wait out the teams that lose on Thornton.

 

[Ivan13]

Call me crazy, but I prefer to let this play out before evaluating how anyone did.

Madness

 

[isles31]

Call me crazy, but I prefer to let this play out before evaluating how anyone did.

agreed, but how much fun would that be on a message board?

 

[FourRings]

I'm not the biggest Sakic fan but he's holding stong and I support him in his decision. If Hamonic gets a 1st and 2 2nds, Hanzal gets what he got at the deadline and Reaves lets a team move up into the first round. Well Duchene damn well better pull 2 A-level prospects and a 1st.

Young, top-4 D, with term (at a sweetheart price I might add) are insanely valuable. Don't expect the difference between Hamonic and Duchene to be that large.

 

[Dipietro39]

Call me crazy, but I prefer to let this play out before evaluating how anyone did.

Just hope this is resolved this week so that Avs, Isles and Duchene can all move on.

 

[Kalv]

Call me crazy, but I prefer to let this play out before evaluating how anyone did.

Absolutely. You basically never know how it goes out until it`s over and even then you will most likely don`t have the whole picture.

With Drouin 'everyone' was saying Yzerman did horrible, then when situation changed everyone were saying he did great Same this time, can`t really know what is going on there. But it looks bad.

 

[Jarey Curry]

That's nice. One of these two scenarios play out:
A) Duchene walks for nothing.
B) Avs don't get even close to the haul they could've got.

Sakic likely gets fired if they miss the playoffs again. Avs look as though they've become irrelevant in the Denver sports scene. Owners won't put up with this forever.

You sure theres not a C option which youre too scared to see and he actually gets what he wants... Eventually? Drouin case has a lot of similarities to this one. The B option would have happened already if Duchene was traded at the draft

 

[bleedblue1223]

You sure theres not a C option which youre too scared to see and he actually gets what he wants... Eventually? Drouin case has a lot of similarities to this one. The B option would have happened already if Duchene was traded at the draft

Drouin came with control, younger, and has the potential to improve on a breakout year last year. Duchene has 2 years of control, coming of a down season, and while he'll likely rebound, he also won't really improve on previous production, the 55-65 point production in 14/15 and 15/16 is likely where he will be.

The situations are not similar. Except for HF being overly negative about them.

 

[Dipietro39]

Fair offer for both teams is:

Barzal + 2018 1st + 2018 2nd + Kuli (cap dump) for Duchene.

 

[CB Joe]

Fair offer for both teams is:

Barzal + 2018 1st + 2018 2nd + Kuli (cap dump) for Duchene.

*according to one Islanders fan.

What part of that package helps the Avs blueline?

 

[hockeyheadlines]

Duchene will play in Europe next year if he isn't traded. Brisson is already planning it.

 

[Dr Quincy]

*according to one Islanders fan.

What part of that package helps the Avs blueline?

I think it's clear that an offer that includes a top pairing or potential top pairing D just isn't out there. Maybe it's there next February. But then again, maybe not. I totally get not selling low on Duchene or waiting for the right offer, but the Avs need goals just as badly as they need D. While their NHL roster might need D more, the D prospect pool is deeper. Also, even the NHL F roster is shaky if they really are going to roll Sven Andrighetto on the top 6 or just force Jost into 2nd C duties to start (presuming a Duchene deal).

Duchene isn't going to be returning a current top pairing D. It's unlikely at this point he's going to return a potential top pairing D (though this one might change next deadline day).

Getting a high octane offensive player and other assets may be the best they can get now. But I understand wanting to hold on and seeing if something better comes along 14 months from now.

 

[Dipietro39]

*according to one Islanders fan.

What part of that package helps the Avs blueline?

Swap Barzal for Pulock.

Pretty clear no team is trading an under 25 A level D prospect.

 

[Superlative Soup]

Swap Barzal for Pulock.

Pretty clear no team is trading an under 25 A level D prospect.

Sergachev?

 

[CB Joe]

I think it's clear that an offer that includes a top pairing or potential top pairing D just isn't out there. Maybe it's there next February. But then again, maybe not. I totally get not selling low on Duchene or waiting for the right offer, but the Avs need goals just as badly as they need D. While their NHL roster might need D more, the D prospect pool is deeper. Also, even the NHL F roster is shaky if they really are going to roll Sven Andrighetto on the top 6 or just force Jost into 2nd C duties to start (presuming a Duchene deal).

Duchene isn't going to be returning a current top pairing D. It's unlikely at this point he's going to return a potential top pairing D (though this one might change next deadline day).

Getting a high octane offensive player and other assets may be the best they can get now. But I understand wanting to hold on and seeing if something better comes along 14 months from now.

It doesn't have to be a top pairing guy but you can't ignore the defense all together. A young top 4 defenseaman or one who is close to stepping in would be a vital piece. I thought that was blatantly obvious by now that ignoring the defense in favor of more offense is how the Avs got themselves in this situation.

I guess we'll just have to disagree that the Avs need goals as much as defense. Avs have MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Jost as core offensive pieces and Compher, Greer, and Beaudin as potential depth pieces. On top of that offense is a little easier to find in free agency than defense. On the back end the Avs have Johnson who is getting old for a rebuild, Barrie whose contract situation in muddy, and Zadorov who is still a question mark. The pipeline looks good with Makar, Meloche and Timmins but they are still many years away from stepping in.

 

[cgf]

Call me crazy, but I prefer to let this play out before evaluating how anyone did.

Even if we get Hanifin + Gauthier for Duchene (50% retained) + Bigras, I'll say Sakic made a mess of this by letting it get so public.

So there's room for criticism, even if it ends well.

The only thing with a UFA is closer they get to free agency, the lower the cost will be, unless you can get them to sign an extension with the trade. This summer is the prime-time to move Duchene, so probably best to wait out the teams that lose on Thornton.

Why not wait to trade him when he can extend like they did with ROR...aka the last time they had to trade a core player, and got their ask...

Young, top-4 D, with term (at a sweetheart price I might add) are insanely valuable. Don't expect the difference between Hamonic and Duchene to be that large.

So are "young" #1Cs who have a history of being easy to negotiate with. There is a sizeable gap between Hamonic and Duchene.

*according to one Islanders fan.

What part of that package helps the Avs blueline?

The part were the addition of Barzal takes away the temptation to use our 2018 1st on anything but a LHD; as well as the part where it gives us extra ammunition to trade up for the LHD we want next spring, if necessary. We need a future #1 LHD to push Zads down, but the right side of our future D looks straight up sexy with Makar / Meloche / Timmins percolating behind EJ, Barrie & Mironov. So adding a dynamic forward (who might be that MacKinnon partner we've been looking for) + picks is still very helpful to us if it's enough pure value.

We're still missing that potential #1 LHD, but this draft did change some things for us.

 

[topshelf15]

Sergachev?

Not really a good comparable.

 

[SI90]

No way Barzal + Pulock were offered.

Sakic reported wanted Barzal part of the package. If it was offered I imagine he'd take it.

 

[cgf]

Duchene will play in Europe next year if he isn't traded. Brisson is already planning it.

Brisson can plan what he wants, but that would be extremely out of character for Duchene; and ultimately the agent can't make the player do anything he doesn't want to.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

Brisson can plan what he wants, but that would be extremely out of character for Duchene; and ultimately the agent can't make the player do anything he doesn't want to.

If he stays, I'd say he has no character.

 

[cgf]

It doesn't have to be a top pairing guy but you can't ignore the defense all together. A young top 4 defenseaman or one who is close to stepping in would be a vital piece. I thought that was blatantly obvious by now that ignoring the defense in favor of more offense is how the Avs got themselves in this situation.

I guess we'll just have to disagree that the Avs need goals as much as defense. Avs have MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Jost as core offensive pieces and Compher, Greer, and Beaudin as potential depth pieces. On top of that offense is a little easier to find in free agency than defense. On the back end the Avs have Johnson who is getting old for a rebuild, Barrie whose contract situation in muddy, and Zadorov who is still a question mark. The pipeline looks good with Makar, Meloche and Timmins but they are still many years away from stepping in.

That's 2/3rds of a good top 9 (MacK & Mikko; Landy & Jost; Greer & Compher). We're still missing two top 6ers and one of Beaudin / Morrison / Henry would need to hit to fill out the third line with AJG & JTC...though in an ideal world those three would probably be combining to give us an excellent 4th line. On D we have a top 4 LHD spot filled for the forseeable future by Zads and the right side of our D is loaded moving forward with Makar, Meloche & Timmins developing behind EJ, Barrie & Mironov...which is 2/3rds, without counting Bigras or any of our third pairing caliber LHDs & LHD prospects (Lindholm, Boikov, Barberio) or counting the extra talents we have on the right.

Our biggest need is for someone who'll someday bump Zads off the top pairing...or if Makar reaches his full potential, someone who can challenge Zads for that job....but after that our next biggest needs are for forwards...unless we luck out & Shvyryov comes over someday while Smirnov improves his skating enough to overcome his size...and another goalie prospect with starter potential so that all of our eggs aren't in the Spencer Martin basket whenever age starts catching up to Varlamov.

So I don't think it's the end of the world anymore if we don't return a potential #1 LHD for Duchene; as long as we get enough futures to fill our other holes and give us some ammo to get the LHD we want in next year's draft. We may not be able to move up for Dahlin if the lottery is mean to us again; but we should be able to move up for the next LHD on our list.

EDIT:
Basically this is how I see our current lineup of the future:

XXX - MacK - Rantanen
Landeskog - Jost - XXX
Greer - Compher - XXX
Henry - Beaudin - Morrison
Nieto | Nantel | Henley | Barron
( Shvyryov | Smirnov)

XXX - Makar
Zadorov - Meloche
Bigras - Timmins
Mironov | Lindholm | Boikov
(Leivermann | Clurman)

XXX
Martin
Werner | Kvaca | Aittokallio

So if we can't fill that one big hole on D, I'd rather focus on filling that with our 2018 1st and use what assets we have left to fill the other holes & improve our general asset wealth.

If he stays, I'd say he has no character.

Ok, but that would still be in character for Duchene. I frankly can't even imagine him walking out on his contract with this club; regardless of how beaten down & depressed he feels. That's just not the kind of guy Duchene is.

 

[cjdv16]

Drouin came with control, younger, and has the potential to improve on a breakout year last year. Duchene has 2 years of control, coming of a down season, and while he'll likely rebound, he also won't really improve on previous production, the 55-65 point production in 14/15 and 15/16 is likely where he will be.

The situations are not similar. Except for HF being overly negative about them.

I agree.

I think the "bad stuff" surrounding Drouin blew over. I think his playoff performance and ability to take games over helped to ease that. Right or wrong, he shed the stigma that pushed his value to an all time low last year.


Duchene hasn't done a single thing to better his position. His value is at an all time low. Sakic knows this and won't deal from a position of weakness. I don't blame him. He doesn't have to deal Duchene NOW (even though we all want him to).

I'm sure he's leery of Duchene stepping forward to the media and either:
1. Holding out
2. Demanding a trade, period

If either of these things eventually happen, you may see his value drop even further. Seems like Sakic is willing to roll the dice here with the hope of getting a better haul.

Either:
1. His demands are met (or close to it)
2. Duchene starts the season and Sakic prays that his value increases with strong play***

***Note: This ain't looking too good. The guy is disgruntled. Big time.

I think Joe is grasping at straws at the end of the day.