RW Jesse Puljujarvi - Bakersfield Condors, AHL (2016, 4th, EDM)

[Legend Leinonen]

Actually he started taking English lessons early 2016 but obviously if he has neglected his English studies in his early teens, he was last year learning stuff he likely should have learnt already.

This language-IQ-intelligence-thing is pretty dumb, ****ing Selänne doesn't speak perfect English yet and his vocabulary seems limited, but he seemed to do fine.

Exactly, IQ means nothing. That is why I think it's ridiculous that folk here are so defensive on his obvious lack of intelligence.

 

[agent082]

It's less organised sport. And involves more skating, as the "rink" is bigger.

Well, that's what I meant. It's more patient sport than ice hockey because rink is bigger and it involves more skating.

 

[Legend Leinonen]

No need to get personal. I didn't mean either and was actually editing the post to make it a bit more clear

You are right I edited my post.

 

[ijuka]

Well, on Puljujärvi's English, it's pretty difficult for me to relate personally even though I'm Finnish. I think the first 5 years or so of English classes all I did was ask the teacher some vocab questions every few classes and collect perfect marks - I learned pretty much all my English just by playing video games and watching movies or TV series. I imagine that's how it is for most people, at least to some extent.

Still, in general his English really is very bad. It's something I'd expect out of a 10-year-old whose only exposure to English would be in English classes of the Finnish school system. I think that even as a 9-year-old you learned to form more coherent sentences. It's very difficult for me to understand, even relating to how my classmates' English was when I was around 9-11 years old.

Unlike many countries, there rarely are Finnish dubs of movies and TV-series and video game interfaces for instance almost never are in Finnish. You tend to just learn naturally. For a Finnish person the general standard of English I'd expect is far greater than that of a Russian player or even German, French.

 

[GameChanger]

Well, on Puljujärvi's English, it's pretty difficult for me to relate personally even though I'm Finnish. I think the first 5 years or so of English classes all I did was ask the teacher some vocab questions every few classes and collect perfect marks - I learned pretty much all my English just by playing video games and watching movies or TV series. I imagine that's how it is for most people, at least to some extent.

Still, in general his English really is very bad. It's something I'd expect out of a 10-year-old whose only exposure to English would be in English classes of the Finnish school system. I think that even as a 9-year-old you learned to form more coherent sentences. It's very difficult for me to understand, even relating to how my classmates' English was when I was around 9-11 years old.

Jesse was said to spend his time at the rink so he probably didn't have the same amount of video games and movies going on. When I was at his age the time was different and my situation was probably closer to Jesse's. I was pretty good at English, getting eights and nines all the time, but when I had to talk to a foreigner I couldn't get a word out of my mouth. I understood a lot (like Jesse does), but just couldn't speak.

It was the same for most guys in my class at high school. After that I moved abroad and only then got it going, through a lot(!!!) of work. At its best it got to the point I was sometimes mistaken for a local, so at least in my case the difference at the age of 18 and say 22 was pretty amazing if you let me say so.

 

[StiffSquid]

Jesse was said to spend his time at the rink so he probably didn't have the same amount of video games and movies going on. When I was at his age the time was different and my situation was probably closer to Jesse's. I was pretty good at English, getting eights and nines all the time, but when I had to talk to a foreigner I couldn't get a word out of my mouth. I understood a lot (like Jesse does), but just couldn't speak.

It was the same for most guys in my class at high school. After that I moved abroad and only then got it going, through a lot(!!!) of work. At its best it got to the point I was sometimes mistaken for a local, so at least in my case the difference at the age of 18 and say 22 was pretty amazing if you let me say so.

I moved to USA when I was in my early thirties , and I was kind of forced to learn to speak English. I always had good grades in English language , but I was very afraid to speak lol

Well I'm pretty damn good now. Sometimes the locals can't tell a difference and I live in the south east part of the USA where they have a really heavy southern accent , I got that down. Sometimes my Finnish accent breaks through and people are like are you from Maine or something.

Well yeah enough about that though. I'm sure he will figure out that whole language thing.

 

[JabbaJabba]

Exactly, IQ means nothing. That is why I think it's ridiculous that folk here are so defensive on his obvious lack of intelligence.

I don't think he lacks intelligence. There are so many types of intelligence out there, generally you are good in some things while bad at others, you can compensate by studying but usually somethings are just easier for you while others are not. Ability to learn and speak languages is just one form of intelligence, just like math, social skills, creativity, musical skills etc. Being able to understand hockey (or any sport) is one form of intelligence as well I would say.

Jesse is going to get better at English over time, so it's extremely premature to judge what his "potential" in English is. He just didn't put the effort back in school because he was busy with sports and probably lacked the motivation like a lot of teenagers, and now he has to catch up to what he missed in school. Learning gets tougher as you age and while Jesse is still a young guy, it's going to take some time especially 'cos the groundwork hasn't been done properly. Judging by his interviews, he understands English well, it's generating speech that is causing him trouble. This is pretty common with Finns IMO as the school system teaches grammar, vocabulary and reading and listening comprehension but actually speaking the language is left to minimum. How are you expected to speak the language if you don't practise it?

Shortly, I think it's dumb to say someone lacks intelligence because they don't speak English well enough at the age of 19. People making that claim don't sound too bright to me to be honest.

 

[McNuge]

I don't think he lacks intelligence. There are so many types of intelligence out there, generally you are good in some things while bad at others, you can compensate by studying but usually somethings are just easier for you while others are not. Ability to learn and speak languages is just one form of intelligence, just like math, social skills, creativity, musical skills etc. Being able to understand hockey (or any sport) is one form of intelligence as well I would say.

Jesse is going to get better at English over time, so it's extremely premature to judge what his "potential" in English is. He just didn't put the effort back in school because he was busy with sports and probably lacked the motivation like a lot of teenagers, and now he has to catch up to what he missed in school. Learning gets tougher as you age and while Jesse is still a young guy, it's going to take some time especially 'cos the groundwork hasn't been done properly. Judging by his interviews, he understands English well, it's generating speech that is causing him trouble. This is pretty common with Finns IMO as the school system teaches grammar, vocabulary and reading and listening comprehension but actually speaking the language is left to minimum. How are you expected to speak the language if you don't practise it?

Shortly, I think it's dumb to say someone lacks intelligence because they don't speak English well enough at the age of 19. People making that claim don't sound too bright to me to be honest.

People who think this way generally have no idea how difficult it is to learn a new language. It is pure ignorance and stupidity.

 

[GameChanger]

Shortly, I think it's dumb to say someone lacks intelligence because they don't speak English well enough at the age of 19. People making that claim don't sound too bright to me to be honest.

In a way the whole intelligence thing is overrated. I mean the whole issue is very complicated and even if you are considered intellectual that doesn't make you any better than the others. In fact you may have trouble in the most surprising areas or your life my suck just as with anyone else.

I don't want to get into my background any more than this, but when I was younger I probably passed for someone who was considered quite intellectual. At least I heard that a lot and kind of knew my brain worked in a bit different way. Despite that I couldn't speak English at 17, but after moving abroad and working hard with my English I was pretty close to perfect in just a couple of years. Wouldn't that mean that I somehow turned intellectual pretty suddenly? I did work very hard, though, studying vocabulary relentlessly, having a native teacher and recording and listening to my own speech.

 

[Bank Shot]

I don't care if Jesse never learns english if he puts points on the board.

 

[FlameChampion]

Its not like Malkin and Datsyuk speak good english. And they are/were in the league a long time. I doubt many Penguins or Wings fans would pass on them because of their english skills.

 

[GameChanger]

Well yeah enough about that though. I'm sure he will figure out that whole language thing.

The problem for the Finns is that you form the sounds very differently. For me the main thing was to study the consonants with a native teacher, and then repeat and repeat them until I started to use them when I spoke. When I learned to say e.g. s and t-letters the native way it started to affect the whole mouth and suddenly it felt much easier to speak.

Of course the other thing is to get to the point where you think in English so you don't need to try to translate everything while you speak. Finnish and English grammars have quite different structures so that is a tough way. In case someone is interested here is an example:

Enkö minä saisi pelata joskus ylivoimaa? = Couldn't I play PP sometimes?

minä= I
en = not (1st person)
kö= this makes it a question
saa = to get, isi-ending makes it a conditional (saisi=could)
pelata = to play (pelaan=I play, pelaat=you play, pelaa=he plays...)
joskus = sometimes (but usually the word is at a different place compared to English)
ylivoima = powerplay

That is just a quick example why it's not so easy to translate directly between languages, although now that I look at this it must be one of the easier examples.

 

[GameChanger]

To get the discussion a bit more relaxed, one extreme example of a Finnish discussion:


Kokko, kokkoo koko kokko kokkoon! Koko kokkoko? Koko kokko!


In English: Kokko (a male name), gather the whole bonfire together! The whole bonfire? Yes the whole bonfire!

Kokko = male name
Kokkoo = gather
Koko = the whole
Kokko =bonfire
Kokkoon = together
-ko (ending) = makes the sentence a question (as in "Koko kokkoKO?)


I'm done, sorry for the OT, I just had to do that

 

[JabbaJabba]

The problem for the Finns is that you form the sounds very differently. For me the main thing was to study the consonants with a native teacher, and then repeat and repeat them until I started to use them when I spoke. When I learned to say e.g. s and t-letters the native way it started to affect the whole mouth and suddenly it felt much easier to speak.

This brought back memories, I also had issues with English, especially with pronunciation when I was a kid. I remember how long it took me to learn how to say "the", like that word didn't make any sense to me as a child, how could a word with those letters be pronounced like that? I used to spell the word instead of saying it as I just couldn't get the pronunciation into my head as I tried to say things how they are written, like in Finnish.

Anyway, great to see Jesse on the scoreboard, we Finns have lately been treated with great prospects with breakthrough seasons (Aho, Laine etc.) and when Pulju didn't immediately make an impression, people wanted to ship him back home and call him a bust. Great that he is proving those people wrong. I have to see an Oilers game when I can.

 

[traffic cone]

To get the discussion a bit more relaxed, one extreme example of a Finnish discussion:


Kokko, kokkoo koko kokko kokkoon! Koko kokkoko? Koko kokko!


In English: Kokko (a male name), gather the whole bonfire together! The whole bonfire? Yes the whole bonfire!

Kokko = male name
Kokkoo = gather
Koko = the whole
Kokko =bonfire
Kokkoon = together
-ko (ending) = makes the sentence a question (as in "Koko kokkoKO?)


I'm done, sorry for the OT, I just had to do that

Everytime a Finnish poster decides it's somehow a funny idea to try and teach Finnish language or talk about the Winter War etc. here on hfboards I just cringe so hard...

 

[Hulkacaniac]

What about the Continuation War or does that fall under etc.?

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Who cares if he's dumb or not btw? Teemu Selanne is dumb as bricks, he turned out an ok hockey player.

 

[Legend Leinonen]

I don't think he lacks intelligence. There are so many types of intelligence out there, generally you are good in some things while bad at others, you can compensate by studying but usually somethings are just easier for you while others are not. Ability to learn and speak languages is just one form of intelligence, just like math, social skills, creativity, musical skills etc. Being able to understand hockey (or any sport) is one form of intelligence as well I would say.

Jesse is going to get better at English over time, so it's extremely premature to judge what his "potential" in English is. He just didn't put the effort back in school because he was busy with sports and probably lacked the motivation like a lot of teenagers, and now he has to catch up to what he missed in school. Learning gets tougher as you age and while Jesse is still a young guy, it's going to take some time especially 'cos the groundwork hasn't been done properly. Judging by his interviews, he understands English well, it's generating speech that is causing him trouble. This is pretty common with Finns IMO as the school system teaches grammar, vocabulary and reading and listening comprehension but actually speaking the language is left to minimum. How are you expected to speak the language if you don't practise it?

Shortly, I think it's dumb to say someone lacks intelligence because they don't speak English well enough at the age of 19. People making that claim don't sound too bright to me to be honest.

Alrighty then, the guy is the reincarnation of Albert Einstein. Happy now?

 

[Legend Leinonen]

Who cares if he's dumb or not btw? Teemu Selanne is dumb as bricks, he turned out an ok hockey player.

The thing here is that if you are HFBOARDS fanboy, a hockey player absolutely can not be unintelligent. His honor must be defended to the bitter end, despite the fact that in strict sense likely 99% of worlds population are unintellligent, including all of us here.

 

[GameChanger]

The thing here is that if you are HFBOARDS fanboy, a hockey player absolutely can not be unintelligent. His honor must be defended to the bitter end, despite the fact that in strict sense likely 99% of worlds population are unintellligent, including all of us here.

Of course they can. With all respect, it's just stupid to make this kind of assumptions because a kid has had trouble with speaking English. It's kind of like some of the talks about Laine a few years ago (which I hated already then tbh) when he was thrown out of the national team. I'm so happy he's above those discussions now and know that Jesse will be too.

You can freely see him the way you like. I personally don't make a difference between people whether they're "intellectual" or not. I would think a small percentage of the hockey players fit the true meaning of the word. When you watch Jesse's Finnish interviews IMO you have to be biased to see anything wrong or strange for the kid of that age. I guess some people take a smile like his as a worrying sign, but so be it.

If good English makes a person intelligent I know former prime ministers and even presidents who were not the sharpest pens in the boxes. And plenty of hockey players. I used to be like that, too, but I managed to turn into a highly intelligent person in a couple of years when I got my English going

You've said your point and we have said ours so it's time to move on, okay? As I said with all respect towards each other.

 

[Snaibberi]

You are comparing apples with oranges. In Finland a lot of attention is given to learning languages. That is not the case in North America. Also English is the global lingua franca, and also in Finland there is a lot of exposure to it from early on.

Honestly, no matter how much one may turn this around and upside down, the fact that Jesse speaks bad English is quite strong signal that Jesse has rather low intelligence in the academic sense of that word.

I have a friend who is construction DI (has masters of science in english might be the proper english degree) and he can barely form a sentence in english. And he is MTV generation. So no... Not talking english does not mean you are low on IQ.

H**L... I have masters degree and i sound like Tommi Mäkinen (google it) when i try to speak english...

 

[Legend Leinonen]

Jesse Puljujärvi appears dumb to me. Nothing to do with his English either. To me he sounds dummy when babbles in Finnish too. I'm sorry if this offends someone's feelings, but that is the way I see it.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

Jesse Puljujärvi appears dumb to me. Nothing to do with his English either. To me he sounds dummy when babbles in Finnish too. I'm sorry if this offends someone's feelings, but that is the way I see it.

You have made your point clear. You think Pulju is dumb. I disagree with your assessment. What I don't understand is your obsession with this subject. I think it's pretty disrespectful.

However, I hope this is the end of this conversation. Let's just all agree to disagree on this matter as this is pretty OT and I'm here to discuss hockey, not to read amateur debates on human intelligence.

 

[StiffSquid]

Damn this discussion lacks intelligence.

 

[StiffSquid]

Everytime a Finnish poster decides it's somehow a funny idea to try and teach Finnish language or talk about the Winter War etc. here on hfboards I just cringe so hard...

Yeah but the winter war was the first time when a Finnish sniper scored over 600 , so there's that