Speculation: Rumours, Speculation, and all Armchair-GM-ing needs! v.10

[Lunatik]

So here is an idea.

to Carolina:
- 1st in 2015 (15th Overall)
- Mikael Backlund ($1,500,000/RFA 2015)
to Calgary:
- Jordan Staal ($6,000,000/UFA 2023)

 

[Johnny GODreau]

So here is an idea.

to Carolina:
- 1st in 2015 (15th Overall)
- Mikael Backlund ($1,500,000/RFA 2015)
to Calgary:
- Jordan Staal ($6,000,000/UFA 2023)

Monahan-Bennett-Staal. Staal will be pretty happy about that.

 

[Lunatik]

Monahan-Bennett-Staal. Staal will be pretty happy about that.

I know you are kidding but I was thinking it would allow Bennett to remain on the wing.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Hudler
Bennett - Staal - Jones/Colborne
Bouma/Raymond - Stajan - Jones/Colborne
Bouma/Raymond/Ferland - Jooris - Raymond/Ferland
Bollig - Shore

 

[Johnny GODreau]

I know you are kidding but I was thinking it would allow Bennett to remain on the wing.
Gaudreau - Monahan - Hudler
Bennett - Staal - Jones/Colborne
Bouma/Raymond - Stajan - Jones/Colborne
Bouma/Raymond/Ferland - Jooris - Raymond/Ferland
Bollig - Shore

So would Backlund.

In all seriousness, Staal/Backlund would allow Hartley to double shift Bennett on wing.
I'm really on the fence with your proposal.

 

[Lunatik]

So would Backlund.

In all seriousness, Staal/Backlund would allow Hartley to double shift Bennett on wing.
I'm really on the fence with your proposal.

I'd also like to point out that Staal is the same age as Backlund, he was almost 57% on draws this year and is signed long term.

 

[Skobel24]

Monahan will be the better centre between him and Bennett. He still gets so underrated.

I think in 5 years we see something like this:

Gaudreau - Monahan - _______
Klimchuk - Bennett - Poirier
Bouma - Jankowski - _______
Ferland - Arnold - Jooris

but hope to see:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
Klimchuk - Jankowski - Poirier
Agostino - Arnold - Smith
Bouma - Jooris - Ferland

Glad I'm not the only one who has high hopes for Agostino.

Also, I'd be fine with bringing in Jordan Staal. I'd actually really like that deal. As long as that 6m contract he has doesn't interfere with signing the guys we need to keep.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

I'd also like to point out that Staal is the same age as Backlund, he was almost 57% on draws this year and is signed long term.

Yeah, his size and 2-way ability would be an asset.

IMO if we're trading 15th overall I'd package it for someone like Seabrook. We have a bigger need for a big 2-way D-man vs a big 2-way Center. But either would be nice.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

Yeah, his size and 2-way ability would be an asset.

IMO if we're trading 15th overall I'd package it for someone like Seabrook. We have a bigger need for a big 2-way D-man vs a big 2-way Center. But either would be nice.

where would we put Seabrook? Getting Seabrook would mean putting Russell or Wideman on the 3rd pair. I don't want to add anybody on D. I want a top 6 forward. I like the Staal deal if Carolina adds a bit more.

The other options for top 6 forwards are Lucic, Williams, Oshie, ROR or even Belesky

 

[Lunatik]

where would we put Seabrook? Getting Seabrook would mean putting Russell or Wideman on the 3rd pair. I don't want to add anybody on D. I want a top 6 forward. I like the Staal deal if Carolina adds a bit more.

The other options for top 6 forwards are Lucic, Williams, Oshie or even Belesky

Beleksey? He may have scored 20 this year but at 26 his career high is still 32 points. He's not a top 6 options. Williams is a UFA but if he isn't retained by the Kings he will be looking for both term and dollars and at his age I have no interest in that.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

So here is an idea.

to Carolina:
- 1st in 2015 (15th Overall)
- Mikael Backlund ($1,500,000/RFA 2015)
to Calgary:
- Jordan Staal ($6,000,000/UFA 2023)

By the looks of it I am in the minority but there is no way I do this deal. Ever since Backlund has really come into his own the last couple of years production has been almost identical, with Backlund actually scoring more goals than Staal. For those saying Staal's two way ability would be nice, last I checked Backlund is great defensively. So really the only major difference I see is size, which is not worth giving up a first round pick for. Not too mention Backlund will be at least 2 mill cheaper per year.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

Beleksey? He may have scored 20 this year but at 26 his career high is still 32 points. He's not a top 6 options. Williams is a UFA but if he isn't retained by the Kings he will be looking for both term and dollars and at his age I have no interest in that.

Belesky isn't a top 6 forward but he is a good physical 3rd liner. If we can keep it to 3 years I'd sign Williams.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

where would we put Seabrook? Getting Seabrook would mean putting Russell or Wideman on the 3rd pair. I don't want to add anybody on D. I want a top 6 forward. I like the Staal deal if Carolina adds a bit more.

The other options for top 6 forwards are Lucic, Williams, Oshie, ROR or even Belesky

Bump Wideman down to third pairing.

Gio-Brodie
Russell-Seabrook


That's a very good top 4. Wideman's a luxury to have on our bottom pairing.

 

[InfinityIggy]

A minor upgrade on Backlund for our 1st. Negatory.

 

[Lunatik]

A minor upgrade on Backlund for our 1st. Negatory.

minor upgrade? that's like saying Shaq is a little taller than a midget

Staal is literally better in every single facet of the game, by a considerable margin.

 

[Anglesmith]

minor upgrade? that's like saying Shaq is a little taller than a midget

Staal is literally better in every single facet of the game, by a considerable margin.

The last two seasons, they've had basically identical offensive stats, and their usage is pretty much the same. Eye test suggests similarity as well in terms of their defensive abilities. What do you have to back this up?

 

[Mr Lebowski]

Bump Wideman down to third pairing.

Gio-Brodie
Russell-Seabrook


That's a very good top 4. Wideman's a luxury to have on our bottom pairing.

It might be the best int he league but Wideman and Russell have played like top pair defence-men since March. I think another defence-man that's over 25 is the least of our worries.

The last two seasons, they've had basically identical offensive stats, and their usage is pretty much the same. Eye test suggests similarity as well in terms of their defensive abilities. What do you have to back this up?

I think Staal is much more physical than Backlund and generates more offence but it's not worth the price of the 15th OA pick

 

[Lunatik]

The last two seasons, they've had basically identical offensive stats, and their usage is pretty much the same. Eye test suggests similarity as well in terms of their defensive abilities. What do you have to back this up?

I should have known anytalk of lord Backlund would result in comments like this. Backlund is so overrated it's not even funny. Backlund is above average at best defensively, Staal has been one of the best defensive forwards in the league over the last half decade.

https://leafshero.wordpress.com/2013/09/15/cumulated-selke-voting-over-past-5-years/

This shows the cumulative Selke voting over the last 5 seasons (before this year obviously). Staal is 5th among all players. Backlund you ask? Not a single lowly vote.

Offensively Staal has 3 seasons in his career under 40 points, all of which were season with under 50 games played (2 due to injuries, 1 due to lockout). Backlund has never reached 40 points once in his career.

 

[Anglesmith]

I should have known anytalk of lord Backlund would result in comments like this. Backlund is so overrated it's not even funny. Backlund is above average at best defensively, Staal has been one of the best defensive forwards in the league over the last half decade.

https://leafshero.wordpress.com/2013/09/15/cumulated-selke-voting-over-past-5-years/

This shows the cumulative Selke voting over the last 5 seasons (before this year obviously). Staal is 5th among all players. Backlund you ask? Not a single lowly vote.

Offensively Staal has 3 seasons in his career under 40 points, all of which were season with under 50 games played (2 due to injuries, 1 due to lockout). Backlund has never reached 40 points once in his career.

Meh. I have no reason to over-rate or under-rate any players. I've been extremely impressed by Backlund's progression. I feel like that's an opinion that is valid, though, because it's based on nothing more than watching him. I mean, at this point I could sling back that you're simply being a contrarian by under-rating Backlund, but why? It's nothing more than a ruse to distract from the actual discussion.

What you say is true, but we're not talking about Staal a few seasons ago, we're talking about acquiring Jordan Staal as he is right now. Is there really any reason to believe that Staal for the next few years will be a better point-producer than Backlund? I don't see it.

Regarding the Selke, I'm inclined to agree that there's not much basis to argue that Backlund is better than Staal defensively, but I also don't think there's much basis to argue that the two are not even close. The Selke is very much a reputation-based award, as most people acknowledge. The way to get yourself in the Selke conversation is to be the shutdown centre on a cup contender, and that will stick with you for the rest of your career, as evidenced by Kopitar being hailed one of the three best defensive players in the league in a year where he was extremely ineffective in general.

However, that is not really the crux of the argument, as the point you were trying to make was that Staal is way, way better than Backlund at every aspect of the game.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think Staal is much better at FO's, he's bigger, he's definitely more physical, I'd say he is an upgrade defensively. That said, I'm not sure I'd deal my first with Backlund to make the swap. Staal would make us harder to play against, so I do like that.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

I think Staal is much better at FO's, he's bigger, he's definitely more physical, I'd say he is an upgrade defensively. That said, I'm not sure I'd deal my first with Backlund to make the swap. Staal would make us harder to play against, so I do like that.

this.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

I should have known anytalk of lord Backlund would result in comments like this. Backlund is so overrated it's not even funny. Backlund is above average at best defensively, Staal has been one of the best defensive forwards in the league over the last half decade.

https://leafshero.wordpress.com/2013/09/15/cumulated-selke-voting-over-past-5-years/

This shows the cumulative Selke voting over the last 5 seasons (before this year obviously). Staal is 5th among all players. Backlund you ask? Not a single lowly vote.

Offensively Staal has 3 seasons in his career under 40 points, all of which were season with under 50 games played (2 due to injuries, 1 due to lockout). Backlund has never reached 40 points once in his career.

If anything that shows Backlund is underrated. I don't understand how you can call him overrated when he has the same production as the upgrade that "is better in every facet of the game". Where and how many times have you seen Staal play to make such a claim? Sure Staal is bigger, better at faceoffs (although that is very much a stat about wingers also), but I'm not necessarily sure that bigger means harder to play against.It is also hard to play against smart, positionally sound, competitive, fast, players that use their sticks well (not saying either Backs or Staal are or aren't these things just providing examples). Have you seen Backlund down low these playoffs? He's created so many turnovers and has shown strength down low he has been one of our better forwards imo. Both players are injury prone.

And then you want to throw in a first round pick? Believe me I would like to have Staal but not at the expense of Backs and a first. No offense but your evaluation of the value of the players is quite off and I could just as easily make the claim that you are overvaluing Staal.

 

[Lunatik]

If anything that shows Backlund is underrated. I don't understand how you can call him overrated when he has the same production as the upgrade that "is better in every facet of the game". Where and how many times have you seen Staal play to make such a claim? Sure Staal is bigger, better at faceoffs (although that is very much a stat about wingers also), but I'm not necessarily sure that bigger means harder to play against.It is also hard to play against smart, positionally sound, competitive, fast, players that use their sticks well (not saying either Backs or Staal are or aren't these things just providing examples). Have you seen Backlund down low these playoffs? He's created so many turnovers and has shown strength down low he has been one of our better forwards imo. Both players are injury prone.

And then you want to throw in a first round pick? Believe me I would like to have Staal but not at the expense of Backs and a first. No offense but your evaluation of the value of the players is quite off and I could just as easily make the claim that you are overvaluing Staal.

Backlund is anything but underrated and me thinking he is overrated does not make him underrated, that is some ass backwards logic right there. Backlund is a 3a/2b centre. Staal is a clear cut #2, even borderline 1b IMO.

I will concede that wingers help on faceoffs, but they don't make the difference that there is between Staal and Backlund, even with wingers that are less effective at helping on draws Staal wouldn't drop to the level Backlund is at.

And bigger is harder to play against when it means being harder to push off the puck (which is the case), when it means being more physical (which is the case) and when it means being better in the corners (which is the case).

And while Backlund is good at creating turnovers as you mention, he is also prone to horrific giveaways and often struggles at clearing the defensive zone. Staal like Backlund plays a good positional game, he is ultra competitive, he skates well.

Also Staal isn't really injury prone. In 9 seasons he has missed less than 100 games.

The difference between Staal and Backlund is easily a first round pick, if anything it's actually not enough. Just 2 years ago it took the 9th overall pick and Brandon Sutter (who IMO is a much better comparable to Backlund than Staal is).

 

[Anglesmith]

The difference between Staal and Backlund is easily a first round pick, if anything it's actually not enough. Just 2 years ago it took the 9th overall pick and Brandon Sutter (who IMO is a much better comparable to Backlund than Staal is).

Would you not agree that that trade has proven to be a bad one for Carolina? If, right now, they could have Sutter and Pouliot instead of Staal, do you not think they would take it?

 

[Lunatik]

Would you not agree that that trade has proven to be a bad one for Carolina? If, right now, they could have Sutter and Maata instead of Staal, do you not think they would take it?

The Pens never drafted Maatta with that pick, they drafted Pouliot. And if I had to choose between Sutter/Pouliot and Staal; I would quite easily take Staal.

But we also can't assume the Hurricanes would have drafted Pouliot.

 

[Anglesmith]

The Pens never drafted Maatta with that pick, they drafted Pouliot. And if I had to choose between Sutter/Pouliot and Staal; I would quite easily take Staal.

But we also can't assume the Hurricanes would have drafted Pouliot.

True. I ninja-edited.

But yes, we can't assume that the Hurricanes would've drafted Pouliot. He's actually about the worst player they could've taken at that spot, looking back at it.