Speculation: Rumours and trade proposals

[TitansVolsPreds615]

We had the chance to keep James Neal to start the season instead of Calle or Craig Smith, lord what a disaster of a summer for Poile.

Vegas was never going to take Craig Smith.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

And... again... it was keeping 5 years of Jarnkrok instead of 1 year of Neal. Plus the off-ice intangibles. It may not look good now with Neal scoring and Jarnkrok spluttering, but it was a decision made with a longer view. The longer view may yet look better. Or not. But I understand why they made that decision.

What matters next is how they spin out the other side of the story. They also freed up cap space. You could argue Bonino takes Wilson's space. Maybe Hartnell and Fisher in veteran net-front roles, if different positions and cap values. So now they sit on nearly $5M in cap space... what do they do with it? If keeping Jarnkrok is more of a long term value, what is the move in the short term that makes up for losing Neal? Cap space has value, but for a contender - and we want to be a contender - the value is only realized when it is filled with a productive player.

The picture is still not 100% complete. I feel like Poile has earned some patience on our part while we wait to see how he completes it.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Agree that we didn't do enough, we definetely should have and it's costing us now BUT St louis isn't that deep in any area and the fact is that they are peaking now. I'd much rather struggle now and catch fire in Feb and go on a deep playoff run like we have done and it's looking like the path we're gonna take again. I just don't see it in the Blues they'll come down to Earth.

But we need something to spark the offense. Is it Kamenev? Pettersson? TDL pickup?

I don't have any faith in someone from the Ads giving this team the kind of boost we are talking about.

Also, St. Louis is the deepest and best team in the central at almost every position. The weakest spot they had was at center and they addressed it.

Poile deserves some patience, but at the moment, they current state of the team isn't great, especially at forward.

Why do people think Neal wouldn't have stayed more than one year? He could've signed with us again... or he should've been traded if we weren't planning on keeping him before the expansion draft.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

It was a bad decision the moment it was made, it's a bad decision now, it will be a bad decision until the end of time. Who cares if a 4th liner has lots of term on his deal? 4th liners are incredibly easy to replace in this league. The problem is that they think he's more than a 4th liner for some inexplicable reason. If they're going to continue to use him as a middle 6 center, he's actually hurting the team.

 

[Enoch]

It was a bad decision the moment it was made, it's a bad decision now, it will be a bad decision until the end of time. Who cares if a 4th liner has lots of term on his deal? 4th liners are incredibly easy to replace in this league. The problem is that they think he's more than a 4th liner for some inexplicable reason. If they're going to continue to use him as a middle 6 center, he's actually hurting the team.

This.

You can make a better case that Jarnkrok is overpaid this year.

Good pker. Terrible PPer. Terrible in the greasy areas. Weak on the puck. Bad shooter.

Good positioning. Good defender. Good at gaps/spacing.

3rd/4th liner who is a weak cog on any line that isn't defensively oriented.

 

[Montross]

It was a bad decision the moment it was made, it's a bad decision now, it will be a bad decision until the end of time. Who cares if a 4th liner has lots of term on his deal? 4th liners are incredibly easy to replace in this league. The problem is that they think he's more than a 4th liner for some inexplicable reason. If they're going to continue to use him as a middle 6 center, he's actually hurting the team.

Yep. It is evident watching the team that there is currently little hope for scoring outside of the top line. We keep waiting and waiting for the Fialas and Abergs to actually reach their potential. So keeping a role-player just because his contract is pretty good at the expense of losing a player who can actually score goals is just plain bad. Especially with the team so close to actually winning the whole thing.

 

[Gh24]

I still believe it had more to do with the BFF trio of Jarnkrok, Forsberg and Ekholm, than Jarnkrok being a more valuable asset than Neal.

 

[PredsV82]

Big ole fat pass on Ship.

How silly do we look right now for not adding some good veteran wingers? Someone like Vanek or Jagr would've given us some depth scoring options. We just aren't talented enough at wing or center.

Look at St. Louis. They were weak at C and they addressed it by getting Brayden Schenn. They are arguably the best team in the league behind Tampa.

We just didn't do that.

We added Hartnell, and we had to assume/save a roster spot for Fiala in the top 6. There is nothing to indicate Jagr would have signed here, and Vanek had 31 teams to choose from. We added Bonino at center. I'm not sure what else you think we could have done

 

[TitansVolsPreds615]

I still believe it had more to do with the BFF trio of Jarnkrok, Forsberg and Ekholm, than Jarnkrok being a more valuable asset than Neal.

Maybe Forsberg scores 60 and makes up for Neal.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

It was a bad decision the moment it was made, it's a bad decision now, it will be a bad decision until the end of time. Who cares if a 4th liner has lots of term on his deal? 4th liners are incredibly easy to replace in this league. The problem is that they think he's more than a 4th liner for some inexplicable reason. If they're going to continue to use him as a middle 6 center, he's actually hurting the team.

Another aspect that goes unnoticed is that even if Poile desperately wanted to keep Jarnkrok, it would be a lot easier to leave him unprotected and then negotiate with Vegas on a price to pick someone else than it was to negotiate a price on not taking Neal.

Hell, I'm not even 100% convinced that McPhee would've taken Jarnkrok had he been left unprotected. He might have taken Sissons or rolled the dice on Aberg becoming a 40 point guy or something like that.

 

[TitansVolsPreds615]

Another aspect that goes unnoticed is that even if Poile desperately wanted to keep Jarnkrok, it would be a lot easier to leave him unprotected and then negotiate with Vegas on a price to pick someone else than it was to negotiate a price on not taking Neal.

Hell, I'm not even 100% convinced that McPhee would've taken Jarnkrok had he been left unprotected. He might have taken Sissons or rolled the dice on Aberg becoming a 40 point guy or something like that.

I seem to remember someone saying that Vegas was definitely taking Jarnkrok and wasn't really entertaining a realistic trade option.

 

[NSH615]

We added Hartnell, and we had to assume/save a roster spot for Fiala in the top 6. There is nothing to indicate Jagr would have signed here, and Vanek had 31 teams to choose from. We added Bonino at center. I'm not sure what else you think we could have done

I didn't like the Hartnell add in the summer and still am on the fence. He's older for a player and is kinda unknown on what he has left. Banking on Hartnell and Bonino (who was injured when we signed him) + assuming the youth would step up was a huge risk. It's now starting to show that it was a very bad decision.

 

[Armourboy]

Hartnell as an addition was fine, just because of what he brings to the PP, and yes it has already been noticeable. We knew he was probably not going to be as good 5 on 5, but that is why everyone had him slatted for the 3rd line. Bonino was also a good signing, the injury thing happens, even if he was perfectly healthy when we signed him it could have happened anyways.

We keep looking at the wings, and losing Neal for Jarnkrok I thought was bad at the time and is still bad, but if we have another decent center instead of Jarnkrok, I'm not sold Fiala, Aberg, etc. don't come alive and do what we need them to do. I look at it and while the wingers aren't scoring, they are forced to pretty much all of the creating as well if paired with Jarnkrok. There is a reason Sissons line started looking better, and it's not just because the wingers started playing better.

The problem is we need someone other than Jarnkrok to play center until Bonino gets back and for whatever reason they are unwilling to give Kamenev a chance to sink or swim ( they seem to be having the same issue with Girard as well tbh ).

 

[PredsV82]

I didn't like the Hartnell add in the summer and still am on the fence. He's older for a player and is kinda unknown on what he has left. Banking on Hartnell and Bonino (who was injured when we signed him) + assuming the youth would step up was a huge risk. It's now starting to show that it was a very bad decision.

Poile obviously tried to get Duchene and couldnt. Other than that I'm not sure who you think we should have signed and/or traded for. Sometime the things you really need simply aren't available or else everybody wants the same thing and you can't always outbid everyone or get someone who prefers another destination

 

[Mypetrobot]

I'd be interested to see what deals could be made with Montreal or Arizona.

It's only a matter of time before a trade happens to shake up the locker room.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

Hartnell has been excellent 5-on-5 every year since he left Nashville. Even last year with Sam Gagner and Company on the fourth line, he was great. Jarnkrok and the other bums have sucked the life out of him at even strength, that's the only explanation I've got.

 

[NSH615]

Hartnell has been excellent 5-on-5 every year since he left Nashville. Even last year with Sam Gagner and Company on the fourth line, he was great. Jarnkrok and the other bums have sucked the life out of him at even strength, that's the only explanation I've got.

Or his age and playing style finally caught up with him.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Or his age and playing style finally caught up with him.

yeah i would look more to linemates. let me know how neal produced with jarnkrok as his line mate. then tell me how neal is producing with the "cast offs" of the NHL. he's the whipping boy for a reason.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

Hartnell is in better shape than he was last year. Focused on cardio over the summer to build up stamina and lose weight. I'm not buying that his age caught up with him over the summer when he came in to camp in much better shape than last year and was extremely successful at even strength just last season. Nope.

On topic, sure, trade for Shipachyov, why not? I'll guarantee he's a better fit for the middle 6C spot than Jarnkrok. He hasn't even looked bad at all in the 30 minutes they actually let him play in Vegas. Scored a goal and went +3. Worth the risk anyway and could wind up as a big hit.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Hartnell is not done. Jarnkrok right now is the hockey version of the Bart Simpson "cone of ignorance." If you're on his line, you're basically going to have to do it 4 on 5 because he's providing nothing right now.

I'm wondering if we might actually do better breaking up JOFA right now, as good as they've been maybe see if Forsberg or Arvy can carry a line. Move Hartnell up with Arvy and Johansen and let Forsberg and Fiala be with Jarnkrok and let Aberg/Sissons/Smith keep generating chances and see if that helps generate more offense all around and at 5 on 5.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Let's just bring this bad boy full circle and trade Jarnkrok for Shipachyov. Then, through a little revisionist history, Jarnkrok was an unfortunate casualty of the expansion draft and we got a 2nd line center for an expiring contract in Neal.

Course I don't see Poile having any interest in an unproven 30 year old that didn't crack an expansion team's roster but then we did sign Steve Moses to a contract.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Let's just bring this bad boy full circle and trade Jarnkrok for Shipachyov. Then, through a little revisionist history, Jarnkrok was an unfortunate casualty of the expansion draft and we got a 2nd line center for an expiring contract in Neal.

Course I don't see Poile having any interest in an unproven 30 year old that didn't crack an expansion team's roster but then we did sign Steve Moses to a contract.

you made that sound appealing. im in.

 

[Scoresberg]

McPhee is an idiot who took too many d-men and now has to pay for it. Ship is a decent middle-6 C I see him as a 2C and if he really is available for the right price Poile is dumb if he doesn't go after him. Centers like him don't come to market often.

And indeed, he looked solid in the games he played for Vegas.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

We added Hartnell, and we had to assume/save a roster spot for Fiala in the top 6. There is nothing to indicate Jagr would have signed here, and Vanek had 31 teams to choose from. We added Bonino at center. I'm not sure what else you think we could have done

I mean for starters, not get rid of Neal. Imagine what our roster would've looked like if it was

Forsberg Joey Arvidsson
Fiala Bonino Neal
Hartnell Sissons Smith
Salomaki Freddy Watson
McLeod

Or, substitute Smith with Jagr, Vanek, Vrbata etc.

All spilled milk at this point I guess.

 

[Scoresberg]

What could've been