Proposal: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Under Sell and Over Deliver or Stuck in First Gear?

[Smartguy]

Gretzky played on 4 teams. Nobody wanted him...

What a post haha you do realize there were circumstances around Gretzky’s departure from Edmonton right? That the team came out and talked about.

Hamilton is about to play on his 4th team, at 27 no less, despite having talent. Nobody yet has ever really come out and said why they were quick to move him, Calgary I think sort of stumbled around that they needed better guys in the locker room, now Carolina, where he has flourished, isn’t even bothering trying to re-sign him for another month, and is essentially letting him hit UFA over a month early, something that has never really happened, at least not to a player of Hamilton’s calibre.

People are right to question Hamilton given these circumstances. He’s probably the most bizarrely handled, borderline superstar, RHD, a premium sought after position, that I can ever remember.

 

[McJadeddog]

He traded away Lucic though? Also, it is no coincidence that the team went from where it was to being close to top of the division and the playoffs

I think the argument is that the team went from a bad team to a pretty good team based on McDrai going supernova and leading the league as 1/2 scorers 2 years in a row. Not because of anything that Holland did. I would tend to agree with that. I would also argue that Holland really *couldn't* do anything either, because of the salary cap situation he was in. But I certainly wouldn't give him any credit whatsoever for the teams improved play since he joined the club as GM. He had nothing to do with it.

 

[Little Fury]

He traded away Lucic though?

Sure but unless he buys out Neal, what's the point.

Also, it is no coincidence that the team went from where it was to being close to top of the division and the playoffs

Point is Holland hasn't had much to do with that unless you want to give him credit for Smith playing out of his head this year.

 

[CycloneSweep]

What a post haha you do realize there were circumstances around Gretzky’s departure from Edmonton right? That the team came out and talked about.

Hamilton is about to play on his 4th team, at 27 no less, despite having talent. Nobody yet has ever really come out and said why they were quick to move him, Calgary I think sort of stumbled around that they needed better guys in the locker room, now Carolina, where he has flourished, isn’t even bothering trying to re-sign him for another month, and is essentially letting him hit UFA over a month early, something that has never really happened, at least not to a player of Hamilton’s calibre.

People are right to question Hamilton given these circumstances. He’s probably the most bizarrely handled, borderline superstar, RHD, a premium sought after position, that I can ever remember.

Except that's not what they are doing? They are hoping to do a sign and trade or hoping that when he sees what other teams are offering he decides to stay.

 

[CycloneSweep]

It’s concerning because he is wrong, Bergevin has built Montreal via trade moreso than ufa signings. Also, when asked if he needs to make a trade at the year-end presser, Holland didn’t sound so sure.

Y'all put to much thought into what GMs say during pressers where they are trying not to tip off their hand

 

[McJadeddog]

Sure but unless he buys out Neal, what's the point.



Point is Holland hasn't had much to do with that unless you want to give him credit for Smith playing out of his head this year.

But he is going to buyout Neal, so......

I agree that Holland hasn't really contributed to any on ice improvement, just to be clear. But he has set the team up to at least allow some potential improvement this and next off-season. Lets see if he actually delivers on that though.

 

[Faelko]

But he is going to buyout Neal, so......

I agree that Holland hasn't really contributed to any on ice improvement, just to be clear. But he has set the team up to at least allow some potential improvement this and next off-season. Lets see if he actually delivers on that though.

This is where I’m at too. I’m not attacking Holland (yet), but his grace period is over with me when the puck drops next season. Time’s up.

 

[bobbythebrain]

He traded away Lucic though? Also, it is no coincidence that the team went from where it was to being close to top of the division and the playoffs

Which in hindsight turned out to be a terrible trade. The points are a wash, and sure we get the better buyout contract, but Looch admitted he was a hair away from retiring. Again, hindsight, i know

 

[LTIR]

I think the argument is that the team went from a bad team to a pretty good team based on McDrai going supernova and leading the league as 1/2 scorers 2 years in a row. Not because of anything that Holland did. I would tend to agree with that. I would also argue that Holland really *couldn't* do anything either, because of the salary cap situation he was in. But I certainly wouldn't give him any credit whatsoever for the teams improved play since he joined the club as GM. He had nothing to do with it.

MvDavid and Drai were 100+ pt players even before Holland joined so them going supernova didnt play a factor in us not being a bottom feeder.

Holland has done a great job thus far trying to improve the depth with no cap space.

 

[Smartguy]

Except that's not what they are doing? They are hoping to do a sign and trade or hoping that when he sees what other teams are offering he decides to stay.

So if it’s so smart why isn’t every one else doing that? You figure that would be smart for the Oilers to do that with RNH? I think there is more to the story that won’t be reported, just like Calgary.

Just because they paint it pretty doesn’t mean it will happen. I’d be shocked to see a team do a sign and trade, why not wait and get him for nothing if he’s already agreed in principle to a deal. I’d be surprised once he tests the market if he stays

 

[Oilhawks]

So if it’s so smart why isn’t every one else doing that? You figure that would be smart for the Oilers to do that with RNH? I think there is more to the story that won’t be reported, just like Calgary.

Just because they paint it pretty doesn’t mean it will happen. I’d be shocked to see a team do a sign and trade, why not wait and get him for nothing if he’s already agreed in principle to a deal. I’d be surprised once he tests the market if he stays

The only thing I could really see is if a team wants to sign him for 8 years so they talk contract before and trade for his rights. Sign and trade doesn’t make sense at all. I guess it would technically be the same thing if all parties are in agreement.

I kind of doubt this happens, though. He probably just goes for more at 7 years instead

 

[AddyTheWrath]

The only thing I could really see is if a team wants to sign him for 8 years so they talk contract before and trade for his rights. Sign and trade doesn’t make sense at all. I guess it would technically be the same thing if all parties are in agreement.

I kind of doubt this happens, though. He probably just goes for more at 7 years instead

Well sign and trade would ensure that the other team gets him at a lower cap hit presumably because they’re getting that 8th year in. Plus Carolina gets a small-ish asset instead of losing him for nothing.

 

[Oilhawks]

Well sign and trade would ensure that the other team gets him at a lower cap hit presumably because they’re getting that 8th year in. Plus Carolina gets a small-ish asset instead of losing him for nothing.

I know, I mean they could technically just trade his rights to the team that he wants to sign with and it would be the same thing, no?

 

[AddyTheWrath]

I know, I mean they could technically just trade his rights to the team that he wants to sign with and it would be the same thing, no?

Oh yeah I’m not sure about the technicalities. Can they still get the 8th year in that way?

Maybe the acquiring team would rather he has a contract before they spend the asset to get him? If the team acquires his rights and then Hamilton plays hardball they’d kind of be screwed.

 

[Spawn]

I know, I mean they could technically just trade his rights to the team that he wants to sign with and it would be the same thing, no?

A player can’t sign for that 8th year unless they were on the roster of that team at the trade deadline.

So the only way a team or Hamilton can sign an 8 year deal is if it’s signed with Carolina first. Otherwise it’s limited to 7.

 

[Oilhawks]

A player can’t sign for that 8th year unless they were on the roster of that team at the trade deadline.

So the only way a team or Hamilton can sign an 8 year deal is if it’s signed with Carolina first. Otherwise it’s limited to 7.

Interesting, I didn’t know that, thanks. That would be a good reason for it to be a sign and trade, trading for the rights wouldn’t be that useful then

 

[GOilers88]

I think the argument is that the team went from a bad team to a pretty good team based on McDrai going supernova and leading the league as 1/2 scorers 2 years in a row. Not because of anything that Holland did. I would tend to agree with that. I would also argue that Holland really *couldn't* do anything either, because of the salary cap situation he was in. But I certainly wouldn't give him any credit whatsoever for the teams improved play since he joined the club as GM. He had nothing to do with it.

So he had nothing to do with bringing JP and signing Barrie? Two pretty key players for us. He also brought Smith back for what might have been the best year of his career. Was it a plan Z? Who knows. But the results speak for themselves no matter how anyone wants to try and spin it.

 

[CycloneSweep]

So if it’s so smart why isn’t every one else doing that? You figure that would be smart for the Oilers to do that with RNH? I think there is more to the story that won’t be reported, just like Calgary.

Just because they paint it pretty doesn’t mean it will happen. I’d be shocked to see a team do a sign and trade, why not wait and get him for nothing if he’s already agreed in principle to a deal. I’d be surprised once he tests the market if he stays

Cause I think the team is still confident in being able to sign Nuge?

Hamilton most likely wants to explore his options as he hasn't had that opportunity before and Carolina is giving him the chance early to do so. Carolina seems like a very player friendly org top to bottom, this is just another example of this

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Cause I think the team is still confident in being able to sign Nuge?

Hamilton most likely wants to explore his options as he hasn't had that opportunity before and Carolina is giving him the chance early to do so. Carolina seems like a very player friendly org top to bottom, this is just another example of this

Honestly we should do this with Barrie, although I don’t think there’s anywhere close to the same interest.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

MvDavid and Drai were 100+ pt players even before Holland joined so them going supernova didnt play a factor in us not being a bottom feeder.

Holland has done a great job thus far trying to improve the depth with no cap space.

This right here. You can't go shopping for a Lamborghini with $30 in your pocket. He's had to bargain bin shop and at bargain bin prices, you get bargain bin talent.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

A player can’t sign for that 8th year unless they were on the roster of that team at the trade deadline.

So the only way a team or Hamilton can sign an 8 year deal is if it’s signed with Carolina first. Otherwise it’s limited to 7.

*+Seattle this year.

The NHLPA negotiated a “no loss of status or rights’’ provision in the latest CBA, which means that a pending free agent selected by the Kraken could still receive an eight-year deal as long as the contract is signed before free agency opens on July 28th.

Seattle will have a 72-hour exclusive negotiating window with any free agents who are left unprotected by their current teams in advance of next month’s expansion draft. If they reach an agreement with one of those players, that player automatically becomes the selection from the team that originally had him.

 

[XXIV97]

Which in hindsight turned out to be a terrible trade. The points are a wash, and sure we get the better buyout contract, but Looch admitted he was a hair away from retiring. Again, hindsight, i know

Lucic: (GP: 124 Points: 43 P/G: 0.35)
Neal: (GP: 84 Point: 41 P/G: 0.49)

0.14 x 82 games = 11.5 point per season difference in production so the points aren't a wash. Neal also had covid-19 this season.

 

[McShogun99]

What a post haha you do realize there were circumstances around Gretzky’s departure from Edmonton right? That the team came out and talked about.

Hamilton is about to play on his 4th team, at 27 no less, despite having talent. Nobody yet has ever really come out and said why they were quick to move him, Calgary I think sort of stumbled around that they needed better guys in the locker room, now Carolina, where he has flourished, isn’t even bothering trying to re-sign him for another month, and is essentially letting him hit UFA over a month early, something that has never really happened, at least not to a player of Hamilton’s calibre.

People are right to question Hamilton given these circumstances. He’s probably the most bizarrely handled, borderline superstar, RHD, a premium sought after position, that I can ever remember.

Carolinas owner is known to be very cheap and Hamilton isn’t even the teams best Dman. It’s like comparing Nurse and Barrie. Barrie had more points but any team would take Nurse over Barrie. If Carolina pays Hamilton big money then what do they pay Slavin when he’s a UFA?

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

What a post haha you do realize there were circumstances around Gretzky’s departure from Edmonton right? That the team came out and talked about.

Hamilton is about to play on his 4th team, at 27 no less, despite having talent. Nobody yet has ever really come out and said why they were quick to move him, Calgary I think sort of stumbled around that they needed better guys in the locker room, now Carolina, where he has flourished, isn’t even bothering trying to re-sign him for another month, and is essentially letting him hit UFA over a month early, something that has never really happened, at least not to a player of Hamilton’s calibre.

People are right to question Hamilton given these circumstances. He’s probably the most bizarrely handled, borderline superstar, RHD, a premium sought after position, that I can ever remember.

Get your facts straight. Carolina is shopping his rights because it seems doubtful he will stay. They would love to have him back.

Boston moved him because they were afraid to commit to the contract that Calgary gave to him. See how well Sweeney managed the picks he got that year in his trades...

As for Calgary. They make big splashes every other season in the carousel of failure.

My comment about Gretzky was tongue and cheek. Anyone who can't see that needs to caaaaaalm down. Lol.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

How sure are we that Holland buys out Neal? When is the buyout window ? Is it after free agency ? I can’t remember. Is there a chance he buys out koskinen and if he’s not up against cap after bites another year of Neal and prays he bounces back after fully recovering from Covid or else is unfit to play and ends up on LTIR?