Proposal: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Under Sell and Over Deliver or Stuck in First Gear?

[Jimmi McJenkins]

3 thoughts for this off season

1. If Nuge could come in at less than $5M per, I would be happy with giving him 8 years.

2. Klefa isn't part of this team or organization until he can actually step on the ice and play.

3. The Oilers should do what they can to get Jake McCabe as the 2LD, he would be an amazing fit for the team and with Larsson

 

[McTonyBrar]

Sure but unless he buys out Neal, what's the point.



Point is Holland hasn't had much to do with that unless you want to give him credit for Smith playing out of his head this year.

Lol he did bring in Barrie, brought back JP didn't he? He has money this year. Let's see what he's capable of

 

[Proko88]

If Hall is coming back that pretty much means RNH is gone. Unless Holland actually managed to do what that rumour last month stated .. get them both for under 11M.

Tell them both to stfu and sign 6mx4 each and let’s win some cups.

 

[Cloned]

Tell them both to stfu and sign 6mx4 each and let’s win some cups.

6 years x 4M

 

[McTonyBrar]

3 thoughts for this off season

1. If Nuge could come in at less than $5M per, I would be happy with giving him 8 years.

2. Klefa isn't part of this team or organization until he can actually step on the ice and play.

3. The Oilers should do what they can to get Jake McCabe as the 2LD, he would be an amazing fit for the team and with Larsson

Less than 6 million not 5.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Less than 6 million not 5.

Over 8 years? It has to be less than $5M

 

[Panda Bear]

Carolinas owner is known to be very cheap and Hamilton isn’t even the teams best Dman. It’s like comparing Nurse and Barrie. Barrie had more points but any team would take Nurse over Barrie. If Carolina pays Hamilton big money then what do they pay Slavin when he’s a UFA?

I mean, both Slavin and Hamilton are top fifteen defenceman in the league at minimum.

Barrie is clearly worse than Nurse, but the same can't be said at all about Hamilton with Slavin.

 

[belair]

Over 8 years? It has to be less than $5M

How many players who regularly score 50 points are signing for less than $5m?

Blake Coleman is probably looking at a contract that starts with a 4 this year and he'll be 30 in November with three 30 point seasons to his name.

If you're actually realistic with your expectations, you'll find yourself being disappointed less.

 

[Former Referee 68]

Bouchard to Carolina for Trocheck and the rights to Hamilton.

#allin

nope

 

[Former Referee 68]

So don't get a top pairing defender because Bouchard needs to play on the PP? Makes tons of sense.

who is this Top pair defender? he is a Bigger version of Barrie

 

[Tobias Kahun]

who is this Top pair defender? he is a Bigger version of Barrie

Hamilton is a top pairing D, and it’s not really debatable

 

[TheNumber4]

Bruins GM on Hall:
“"In talking with both players at the end of the year, and even when Taylor got here, he's expressed interest -- mutual interest to have him back. We had an early conversation with his representatives and obviously we'll have to see where all the pieces fit together,"

Bruins GM on Krejci:
“In David's case, it's very unique in the fact he would like to continue to play with the Bruins and he's expressed interest that he might return (to play at) home at some point in time, whether that's next year or down the road. The family dynamic is important to him. He's asked to have a little bit of time over the coming days to allow him to have conversations with his family and then we'll sit back down and have a real honest conversation.
"I do believe David does want to continue to play. He's been pretty clear and we would like to make it clear this is the place he should continue to play should he choose to be at the NHL level."




So “wait and see” on Hall contrasted with “he wants to be a Bruin again” on Krejci.


That Hall to Edmonton story is NOT over till the he puts pen to paper. Wait and see is right, wait and see him sign a contract riding shotgun with the two best forwards in the NHL. Let’s get this dynasty started already.

 

[Smartguy]

Get your facts straight. Carolina is shopping his rights because it seems doubtful he will stay. They would love to have him back.

Boston moved him because they were afraid to commit to the contract that Calgary gave to him. See how well Sweeney managed the picks he got that year in his trades...

As for Calgary. They make big splashes every other season in the carousel of failure.

My comment about Gretzky was tongue and cheek. Anyone who can't see that needs to caaaaaalm down. Lol.

I’d get your facts straight, see Calgary’s comments on Hamilton.
“Dougie is a terrific talent on the ice,” said the Flames GM.
“I think I have a good and open relationship with players and so there’s things I’m not going to share. We take everything on and off the ice into consideration here. I’m going to keep that stuff internal.”

That isn’t a move that was made to make “make a splash”.

There is real questions around why Dougie has moved team to team.

It’s actually odd to read on here people trash Hall saying “well he’s played on so many teams for a reason” and “he’s not a winner”. Yet the same argument gets brought up against Hamilton and people are quick to defend him.

 

[North]

I’d get your facts straight, see Calgary’s comments on Hamilton.
“Dougie is a terrific talent on the ice,” said the Flames GM.
“I think I have a good and open relationship with players and so there’s things I’m not going to share. We take everything on and off the ice into consideration here. I’m going to keep that stuff internal.”

That isn’t a move that was made to make “make a splash”.

There is real questions around why Dougie has moved team to team.

It’s actually odd to read on here people trash Hall saying “well he’s played on so many teams for a reason” and “he’s not a winner”. Yet the same argument gets brought up against Hamilton and people are quick to defend him.

Well the issue that was reported in Calgary was he tended to keep to himself and spend time in museums when he was away from the rink.

They basically implied they didn’t like the fact he was a bit of a loner.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Well the issue that was reported in Calgary was he tended to keep to himself and spend time in museums when he was away from the rink.

They basically implied they didn’t like the fact he was a bit of a loner.

Wasn't that just one bogus report from that hack John Shannon?

Dougie Hamilton addresses innuendo that followed him out of Calgary - Sportsnet.ca

He’s not a huge fan of museums.
"Not really,” chuckled the Hurricanes defenceman following Sunday morning skate in Edmonton.
...
“It is what it is. It’s not true, so I just try to laugh at it and believe in myself and who I am as a person.”

 

[North]

Wasn't that just one bogus report from that hack John Shannon?

Dougie Hamilton addresses innuendo that followed him out of Calgary - Sportsnet.ca

I do seem to recall there was a bit more indicating he was a bit of loner but it was awhile ago so it could have been others piggybacking on Shannon’s report.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I do seem to recall there was a bit more indicating he was a bit of loner but it was awhile ago so it could have been others piggybacking on Shannon’s report.

The organization tried the whole 'acquiring good locker room guys' shtick at the start of the decade of darkness because the old boys club were butt hurt about Prongers departure and Souray calling a spade a spade. It didn't translate to wins.

Even if the story was true about Hamilton going to museums, who gives a crap what he does outside the rink. He's played 31 playoff games since he left Calgary. He's not holding anyone back from winning.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

How many players who regularly score 50 points are signing for less than $5m?

Blake Coleman is probably looking at a contract that starts with a 4 this year and he'll be 30 in November with three 30 point seasons to his name.

If you're actually realistic with your expectations, you'll find yourself being disappointed less.

So people are giving Blake Coleman 8 years then?

 

[fuswald]

Well the issue that was reported in Calgary was he tended to keep to himself and spend time in museums when he was away from the rink.

They basically implied they didn’t like the fact he was a bit of a loner.

Him and Jesse would get along famously

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Him and Jesse would get along famously

Also sounds like, as we know, the Calgary room is a problem, it's why Lucic fits in so well.

 

[North]

The organization tried the whole 'acquiring good locker room guys' shtick at the start of the decade of darkness because the old boys club were butt hurt about Prongers departure and Souray calling a spade a spade. It didn't translate to wins.

Even if the story was true about Hamilton going to museums, who gives a crap what he does outside the rink. He's played 31 playoff games since he left Calgary. He's not holding anyone back from winning.

I don’t have a problem with it. He’s entitled to do what he wants away from the rink.

I thought it was ridiculous reasoning for any team to get rid of him.

 

[bucks_oil]

I think in both cases both numbers are valuable.

On offense, you have some guys who for the life of them can't cash but generate opportunities left and right. You point to Horcoff and Reasoner, but the guy that comes to my mind almost instantaneously is Josh Anderson, Paul Byron, Patrick Marleau or guys like Glenncross and Mangiapane. These players have no real finish, but are clearly guys that generate possession and chances; if you put them beside the right player (say a Tyler Toffoli or Johnny Gaudreau) Then suddenly they move the dial for you quite nicely.

On the other hand, you have guys that are clearly elite level finishers that could cash on anything semblancing a scoring chance, but are rarely the kind of players that create these opportunities themselves. Guys like Patrik Laine, Tyler Toffoli, Jonathan Cheechoo or Steven Stamkos.

Both of those niches are extremely valuable if you lack the other one.

As for the defensive side of things, I think there is something to be said for not actually getting scored on. Obviously if you just have high possession and don't let scoring chances through then you're great defensively.

But I think people sleep on players that consistently outperform their xGA in their actual GA. A guy like Russell is the perfect example of that. His possession is awful. But he's made a career of being trusted to not let the puck in his net, despite having bad possession and giving up a similar number of chances to his contemporaries. But... he still just manages to not get scored on despite this and has for almost 1000 gp over the course of 16 years. Clearly it's not luck. And I think that has a lot of value.

Yes... I think we agree on this. My point (and I think your point) is that it is a lot more nuanced and trotting out one set of numbers to say player X is good/bad is fraught with attribution errors which usually have me blaming the stat... I should probably blame the user of said stat.

 

[CupofOil]

I think the argument is that the team went from a bad team to a pretty good team based on McDrai going supernova and leading the league as 1/2 scorers 2 years in a row. Not because of anything that Holland did. I would tend to agree with that. I would also argue that Holland really *couldn't* do anything either, because of the salary cap situation he was in. But I certainly wouldn't give him any credit whatsoever for the teams improved play since he joined the club as GM. He had nothing to do with it.

Except that it's a disingenuous argument since McDavid has been going supernova since his rookie season and Draisaitl scored 50 goals and 105 points when they were bottom 10 in the league so no, the team didn't jump from bottom 10 to top 10 in the league solely because McDrai all of a sudden starting scoring a lot. They were great players when the team finished bottom 10, they were great players when the team finished top 10. It's not like they all of a sudden turned into elite players overnight.

There are a couple of other reasons why the team vastly improved. Defense playing better, goaltending was better and the PK was a lot better, Yamamoto and Bear's emergence last season, Puljujarvi this season, Barrie addition this season both being on the roster due to Holland. Could be coaching too but there's no way to quantify that.
Also, the addition of Neal as a net front presence aided the PP which was good prior to his addition and became great afterwards last season.

Obviously, McDavid and Draisaitl drive all the offense but there are other factors that improved the overall team performance.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

I’d get your facts straight, see Calgary’s comments on Hamilton.
“Dougie is a terrific talent on the ice,” said the Flames GM.
“I think I have a good and open relationship with players and so there’s things I’m not going to share. We take everything on and off the ice into consideration here. I’m going to keep that stuff internal.”

That isn’t a move that was made to make “make a splash”.

There is real questions around why Dougie has moved team to team.

It’s actually odd to read on here people trash Hall saying “well he’s played on so many teams for a reason” and “he’s not a winner”. Yet the same argument gets brought up against Hamilton and people are quick to defend him.

There is a culture issue in Calgary that goes far beyond Hamilton.

I can't think of many teams who are more into lockeroom culture than Carolina and they want to keep him.

I'm also more familiar with Hamilton that most here. I watched his entire junior career. There were nothing but good things to be said of his character.

 

[bucks_oil]

Unless your guy is constantly making those kinds of mistakes and getting bailed out, those errors will come out in the wash.

Will they though? He's going to be playing in front of the same goalie 60-75% of the time... so if he's constantly making that mistake, how can I compare him by GF% against anyone other than his teammate? (And even when I do that, it's going to skew in favor of the guy that can finish.. all else being equal)... And yet the stat is used to compare across teams all the time.

The answer to this is of course xGF%, since defensively that captures those bone-headed defensive mistakes... but then it washes them in with xGF to create a percentage. And, to my point above... a positive xGF is never going to turn Shawn Horcoff into Jordan Eberle in terms of actual results... so does xGF% truly have value? I'd say it's limited.

I'd rather see:
xGA: since it truly represents the chances you give up (since you can't control whether the goalie makes the save... all you can control is the quality of the chance), and
GF: since it measures the actual offensive output that matters, goals

There... I've made a new stat. What I want and would believe in is: GF/xGA %