Research Thread for NHL Award and All-star Voting

[pnep]

Thanks a lot pnep! Where do you get all this info?

http://goingfivehole.blogspot.com/2008/06/more-nhl-awards-and-voting-results.html

 

[pnep]

2007-2008 NHL ALL-STAR TEAM VOTING RESULTS

LEFT WING

Pts. (1st-2nd-3rd)
===============================
1. ALEX OVECHKIN, WSH 665 (133-0-0)
2. Henrik Zetterberg, DET 320 (1-99-18)
3. Ilya Kovalchuk, ATL 141 (0-26-63)
4. Dany Heatley, OTT 51 (0-5-36)
5. Rick Nash, CBJ 10 (0-1-7)
6. Pavel Datsyuk, DET 9 (0-3-0)
7. Brenden Morrow, DAL 4 (0-0-4)
8. Daniel Sedin, VAN 3 (0-0-3)
9. Daniel Alfredsson, OTT 1 (0-0-1)
Zach Parise, N.J. 1 (0-0-1)
Vaclav Prospal, PHI 1 (0-0-1)

CENTER

Pts. (1st-2nd-3rd)
==============================
1. EVGENI MALKIN, PIT 555 (93-26-12)
2. Joe Thornton, SJ 282 (23-38-53)
3. Pavel Datsyuk, DET 267 (11-57-41)
4. Vincent Lecavalier, T.B. 55 (4-7-14)
5. Sidney Crosby, PIT 35 (3-5-5)
6. Henrik Zetterberg, DET 4 (0-1-1)
7. Ryan Getzlaf, ANA 3 (0-0-3)
8. Scott Gomez, NYR 1 (0-0-1)
Marc Savard, BOS 1 (0-0-1)
Jason Spezza, OTT 1 (0-0-1)
Eric Staal, CAR 1 (0-0-1)
Jonathan Toews, CHI 1 (0-0-1)

RIGHT WING

Pts. (1st-2nd-3rd)
================================
1. JAROME IGINLA, CGY 653 (128-4-1)
2. Alex Kovalev, MTL 246 (3-65-36)
3. Daniel Alfredsson, OTT 161 (1-39-39)
4. Marian Gaborik, MIN 120 (2-22-44)
5. Dany Heatley, OTT 4 (0-1-1)
6. Sidney Crosby, PIT 3 (0-1-0)
Shane Doan, PHX 3 (0-1-0)
8. Martin St. Louis, T.B. 3 (0-0-3)
9. Brad Boyes, STL 2 (0-0-2)
Patrick Kane, CHI 2 (0-0-2)
Jason Pominville, BUF 2 (0-0-2)
12. Marian Hossa, PIT 1 (0-0-1)
Jaromir Jagr, NYR 1 (0-0-1)
Henrik Zetterberg, DET 1 (0-0-1)

DEFENSE

Pts. (1st-2nd-3rd)
=================================
1. NICKLAS LIDSTROM, DET 668 (133-1-0)
2. DION PHANEUF, CGY 411 (42-59-24)
3. Zdeno Chara, BOS 354 (41-42-23)
4. Brian Campbell, S.J. 297 (20-53-38)
5. Sergei Gonchar, PIT 288 (23-46-35)
6. Andrei Markov, MTL 134 (4-27-33)
7. Mike Green, WSH 59 (1-8-30)
8. Chris Pronger, ANA 58 (1-13-14)
9. Brian Rafalski, DET 38 (1-4-21)
10. Brent Burns, MIN 21 (1-3-7)
11. Duncan Keith, CHI 20 (0-3-11)
12. Mathieu Schneider, ANA 12 (1-1-4)
13. Mark Streit, MTL 11 (0-2-5)
14. Scott Niedermayer, ANA 7 (0-2-1)
15. Ed Jovanovski, PHX 5 (0-1-2)
16. Mike Komisarek, MTL 5 (0-0-5)
17. Wade Redden, OTT 3 (0-1-0)
18. Kimmo Timonen, PHI 2 (0-0-2)
19. Jay Bouwmeester, FLA 1 (0-0-1)
Joe Corvo, CAR 1 (0-0-1)
Jassen Cullimore, FLA 1 (0-0-1)
Tomas Kaberle, TOR 1 (0-0-1)
Paul Martin, N.J. 1 (0-0-1)
Robyn Regehr, CGY 1 (0-0-1)
Shea Weber, NSH 1 (0-0-1)
Sergei Zubov, DAL 1 (0-0-1)

GOALTENDER

Pts. (1st-2nd-3rd)
=============================
1. EVGENI NABOKOV, S.J. 523 (71-55-3)
2. Martin Brodeur, N.J. 475 (56-61-12)
3. J.S. Giguere, ANA 82 (3-8-43)
4. Henrik Lundqvist, NYR 74 (1-6-51)
5. Roberto Luongo, VAN 12 (1-1-4)
6. Miikka Kiprusoff, CGY 11 (0-1-8)
7. Chris Osgood, DET 9 (1-1-1)
8. Pascal Leclaire, CBJ 4 (0-0-4)
9. Dan Ellis, NSH 3 (0-0-3)
10. Tim Thomas, BOS 2 (0-0-2)
11. Niklas Backstrom, MIN 1 (0-0-1)
Ty Conklin, PIT 1 (0-0-1)​

 

[pnep]

2007-2008 Lady Byng Trophy Voting Results

Pts. (1st-2nd-3rd-4th-5th)
===========================================
1. Pavel Datsyuk, DET 984 (75-21-13-7-1)
2. Martin St. Louis, TB 261 (2-17-15-11-14)
3. Jason Pominville, BUF 253 (3-12-15-18-10)
4. Nicklas Lidstrom, DET 211 (9-9-7-6-5)
5. Henrik Zetterberg, DET 185 (6-9-6-9-5)
6. Brian Campbell, S.J. 147 (4-7-7-5-8)
7. Brad Boyes, STL 138 (2-8-7-7-6)
8. Anze Kopitar, L.A. 118 (1-3-10-9-10)
9. Alex Ovechkin, WSH 115 (8-4-1-0-2)
10. Daniel Alfredsson, OTT 98 (1-6-4-5-11)
11. Brad Richards, DAL 55 (2-1-2-4-6)
12. Joe Thornton, S.J. 55 (0-4-3-4-0)
13. Joe Sakic, COL 54 (3-2-1-1-2)
14. Daymond Langkow, CGY 48 (0-2-4-4-2)
15. Paul Stastny, COL 47 (1-3-1-3-2)
16. Pierre-Marc Bouchard, MIN 40 (1-3-1-1-1)
17. Andrew Brunette, COL 37 (1-0-3-3-3)
18. Jarome Iginla, CGY 34 (3-0-0-1-1)
19. Chris Drury, NYR 32 (2-1-1-0-0)
20. J.P. Dumont, NSH 26 (1-1-1-1-1)
21. Radim Vrbata, PHX 21 (0-2-1-0-2)
22. Mark Streit, MTL 21 (0-1-2-0-4)
23. R.J. Umberger, PHI 19 (1-0-1-1-1)
24. Daniel Briere, PHI 18 (0-1-2-0-1)
25. Zach Parise, N.J. 17 (1-0-0-2-1)
26. Viktor Kozlov, WSH 15 (0-0-3-0-0)
27. Saku Koivu, MTL 14 (0-2-0-0-0)
Cory Stillman, OTT 14 (0-2-0-0-0)
29. P.J. Axelsson, BOS 14 (0-0-1-3-0)
30. Tomas Kaberle, TOR 14 (0-0-0-4-2)
31. Scott Niedermayer, ANA 13 (1-0-0-1-0)
32. Sergei Zubov, DAL 13 (1-0-0-0-3)
33. Eric Staal, CAR 13 (0-1-1-0-1)
34. Sidney Crosby, PIT 12 (1-0-0-0-2)
35. Alexei Kovalev, MTL 11 (1-0-0-0-1)
36. Scott Gomez, NYR 11 (0-1-0-1-1)
37. J.S. Giguere, ANA 10 (1-0-0-0-0)
Jay Pandolfo, N.J. 10 (1-0-0-0-0)
39. Marion Gaborik, MIN 10 (0-0-2-0-0)
Phil Kessel, BOS 10 (0-0-2-0-0)
41. Martin Brodeur, N.J. 8 (0-0-1-1-0)
Pavol Demitra, MIN 8 (0-0-1-1-0)
Ales Hemsky, EDM 8 (0-0-1-1-0)
44. Daniel Sedin, VAN 8 (0-0-1-0-3)
45. Jason Arnott, NSH 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Niclas Havelid, ATL 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Kristian Huselius, CGY 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Manny Malhotra, CBJ 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Paul Martin, N.J. 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Brenden Morrow, DAL 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Daniel Paille, BUF 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Marty Turco, DAL 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Lubomir Visnovsky, L.A. 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic, S.J. 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
55. Brendan Shanahan, NYR 6 (0-0-1-0-1)
Marco Sturm, BOS 6 (0-0-1-0-1)
57. Jiri Hudler, DET 6 (0-0-0-2-0)
Brian Rolston, MIN 6 (0-0-0-2-0)
Henrik Sedin, VAN 6 (0-0-0-2-0)
60. David Booth, FLA 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Dan Cleary, DET 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Craig Conroy, CGY 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Patrik Elias, N.J. 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Ron Hainsey, CBJ 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Jochen Hecht, BUF 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Marian Hossa, PIT 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Mike Modano, DAL 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Chris Osgood, DET 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Patrick Sharp, CHI 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
70. Paul Kariya, STL 4 (0-0-0-1-1)
Mats Sundin, TOR 4 (0-0-0-1-1)
72. Nicklas Backstrom, WSH 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Stu Barnes, DAL 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Sergei Brylin, N.J. 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Matt Cullen, CAR 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Milan Hejduk, COL 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Robert Lang, CHI 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Henrik Lundqvist, NYR 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Richard Park, NYI 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Jason Spezza, OTT 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Martin Straka, NYR 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
82. Wojtek Wolski, COL 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
83. Tim Connolly, BUF 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Joe Corvo, CAR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Martin Gelinas, NSH 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Daniel Girardi, NYR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Bill Guerin, NYI 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Olli Jokinen, FLA 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Frantisek Kaberle, CAR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Ilya Kovalchuk, ATL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
John Madden, N.J. 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Patrick Marleau, S.J. 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Dominic Moore, TOR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Mathieu Schneider, ANA 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Kyle Wellwood, TOR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Ray Whitney, CAR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)



2007-2008 Frank Selke Trophy Voting Results

Pts. 1st-2nd-3rd-4th-5th
===========================================
1. Pavel Datsyuk, DET 537 (43-9-7-3-0)
2. John Madden, N.J. 447 (18-18-16-17-10)
3. Henrik Zetterberg, DET 425 (22-20-6-10-5)
4. Patrick Sharp, CHI 290 (10-14-13-8-3)
5. Mike Richards, PHI 220 (10-6-6-13-9)
6. Samuel Pahlsson, ANA 163 (7-6-7-3-7)
7. Brenden Morrow, DAL 149 (4-10-4-5-4)
8. Mikko Koivu, MIN 122 (3-5-8-4-5)
9. P.J. Axelsson, BOS 106 (1-10-4-1-3)
10. Daniel Alfredsson, OTT 92 (3-4-3-4-7)
11. Ryan Kesler, VAN 89 (0-5-5-9-2)
12. Chris Drury, NYR 64 (1-3-2-5-8)
13. Ryan Getzlaf, ANA 52 (1-1-5-2-4)
14. Mike Grier, S.J. 49 (0-1-6-3-3)
15. Dan Cleary, DET 47 (1-3-2-2-0)
16. Antoine Vermette, OTT 46 (1-2-3-2-1)
17. Jay Pandolfo, N.J. 41 (1-1-3-3-0)
18. Rob Niedermayer, ANA 30 (0-1-3-2-2)
19. Ryan Johnson, STL 29 (1-1-1-2-1)
20. Jere Lehtinen, DAL 29 (0-1-3-2-1)
21. Daymond Langkow, CGY 28 (1-1-2-0-1)
22. Mike Fisher, OTT 27 (0-0-2-3-8)
23. Travis Moen, ANA 24 (1-1-1-0-2)
24. Rod Brind'Amour, CAR 19 (0-0-1-3-5)
25. Viktor Kozlov, WSH 16 (1-0-0-2-0)
26. Saku Koivu, MTL 16 (0-1-1-1-1)
Paul Stastny, COL 16 (0-1-1-1-1)
28. Niklas Hagman, DAL 16 (0-0-3-0-1)
29. Alex Ovechkin, WSH 14 (0-0-2-1-1)
30. Dany Heatley, OTT 13 (0-1-0-2-0)
31. Alex Burrows, VAN 13 (0-0-2-1-0)
32. Craig Conroy, CGY 11 (0-1-0-1-1)
33. Kris Draper, DET 11 (0-0-2-0-1)
Mats Sundin, TOR 11 (0-0-2-0-1)
35. Glen Metropolit, BOS 10 (1-0-0-0-0)
Marian Hossa, PIT 10 (1-0-0-0-0)
Mike Sillinger, NYI 10 (1-0-0-0-0)
38. Jason Pominville, BUF 10 (0-1-0-0-3)
39. Mike Modano, DAL 9 (0-0-1-1-1)
40. Valtteri Filppula, DET 8 (0-1-0-0-1)
41. Richard Park, NYI 8 (0-0-1-1-0)
42. Johan Franzen, DET 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Bobby Holik, ATL 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Nathan Horton, FLA 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Todd White, ATL 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
46. Shane Doan, PHX 7 (0-0-0-2-1)
Maxime Talbot, PIT 7 (0-0-0-2-1)
48. Jarome Iginla, CGY 6 (0-0-0-1-3)
49. Eric Belanger, MIN 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Alex Burrows, VAN 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Boyd Gordon, WSH 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Todd Marchant, ANA 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Tomas Plekanec, MTL 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
54. Chris Kelly, OTT 4 (0-0-0-1-1)
Milan Michalek, S.J. 4 (0-0-0-1-1)
Scott Nichol, NSH 4 (0-0-0-1-1)
Mike Ribeiro, DAL 4 (0-0-0-1-1)
58. Jason Arnott, NSH 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Ryan Malone, PIT 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Torrey Mitchell, S.J. 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Jordan Staal, PIT 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Joe Thornton, S.J. 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Doug Weight, ANA 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Stephen Weiss, FLA 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
65. Eric Perrin, ATL 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
66. Sean Avery, NYR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Nicklas Backstrom, WSH 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Rene Bourque, CHI 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Boyd Devereaux, TOR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Kris Draper, DET 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Sergei Fedorov, WSH 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Jiri Hudler, DET 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Kirk Maltby, DET 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Rick Nash, CBJ 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Daniel Paille, BUF 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Joe Pavelski, S.J. 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Derek Roy, BUF 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Mikael Samuelsson, DET 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Brendan Shanahan, NYR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Eric Staal, CAR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Matt Stajan, TOR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Jarret Stoll, EDM 1 (0-0-0-0-1)​

 

[vippe]

I like that Zetterberg got mentioned on all Forwardpositions for the All-Star team

 

[Felonious Python]

I like that Zetterberg got mentioned on all Forwardpositions for the All-Star team

That's pretty lame too, each player should be eligible for only one position, as not to split their vote. As happened here, though it was only five points and not a difference maker.

 

[Angels for Everyone]

I like that Zetterberg got mentioned on all Forwardpositions for the All-Star team

i can understand him being voted as Left wing and Centre, since he plays bother positions, but i don't think he's ever been a right wing.

 

[The Korean*]

I do not understand how Peter Laviolette gets more votes then Gretzky.

 

[TasteofFlames]

Thanks pnep, your the man. I'm suprised Enstrom didn't get more votes (homer here), but that's what happens when you play in a hockey black hole. Congrats to all the winners at last nights awards. Kovy gots votes for the Lady Byng, lol, I kinda figured fighting majors would disqualify you for that.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I do not understand how Peter Laviolette gets more votes then Gretzky.

I don't understand how he got any votes when his team missed the playoffs.

 

[Weztex]

It's pretty weird to see Nabokov ahead of Brodeur by a significant margin for the all-star team while the later won the Vezina trophy. Theodore-Roy in 2002 was a similar situation but the outcome was decided by 1 or two vote. This time, the gap seems right out of the margin of error.

 

[James Mirtle]

It's pretty weird to see Nabokov ahead of Brodeur by a significant margin for the all-star team while the later won the Vezina trophy. Theodore-Roy in 2002 was a similar situation but the outcome was decided by 1 or two vote. This time, the gap seems right out of the margin of error.

Keep in mind that different voters select the Vezina and all-star teams. The GMs vote on the top goaltenders; the PHWA votes for the all-star teams.

 

[Weztex]

Keep in mind that different voters select the Vezina and all-star teams. The GMs vote on the top goaltenders; the PHWA votes for the all-star teams.

I'm aware of that but I've never seen a gap that big between the too results. Looks like there's pretty much an unofficial consensus among each group of voters. In the end, both of them are judging the same performances. It's not that big a a deal but it still looks pretty weird on paper.

 

[Howe Elbows 9]

I'm really happy that people have paid enough attention to Enström to place him sixth in Calder voting. If he keeps up the level of play he had this season, Tobias has a bright future ahead of him.

 

[JimEIV]

Hmmmm Interesting Info/Stats...

So; During the 10 Seasons Brodeur played while Patrick Roy was in the League...Roy only finished a head of Brodeur in Vezina Voting 2 times!

TWICE in 10 years. Interesting Especially in Light of the Recent Top 100 results

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Came across something interesting, figured this was the best place to put it. (If somebody has already brought this up, I appologize, I haven't read through the entire thread in detail.)

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/hockey/024002-2002.2-e.html?PHPSESSID=rq9jcm5ucr4uim576lt6808ik4

Check out the back of the Roy Worters 1933-34 hockey card. Apparently he has "for four years earned the vote as 'League's Best Goalie'."

This gives the impression that there was some sort of vote on the leagues top goaltender sometime in the late 20's and/or early 30's, aside from the Vezina ( a statistical award) and All-Star teams (which came about in 1931; Worters was a 2nd team AS in 1932 and 1934). According to the data posted in this thread, Worters was the top vote-getter amongst goalies for the Hart in '26, '28, '29, and '34. Could that be what the card is reffering to?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Hmmmm Interesting Info/Stats...

So; During the 10 Seasons Brodeur played while Patrick Roy was in the League...Roy only finished a head of Brodeur in Vezina Voting 2 times!

TWICE in 10 years. Interesting Especially in Light of the Recent Top 100 results

Why not tell us what you find interesting about it? Most people around here have figured out how to selectively choose arguments which suit their preconceived notions about which goaltender they like better.

 

[JimEIV]

Why not tell us what you find interesting about it? Most people around here have figured out how to selectively choose arguments which suit their preconceived notions about which goaltender they like better.

You don't find it interesting that 8 of 10 years they both played in the league together Brodeur finished a head of Roy in Vezina voting?

And one of the years Roy finished a head of Brodeur; was Brodeur's Rookie year.

That is not substanstial in your mind? It is mine. Awards of this nature to show "dominance" is basically one of the essential arguements this board uses on every single topic that arises between players.

I also found it interesting that after Brodeur's first two seasons in the league (one of which he was rookie of the year) he never finished Lower than 5th in Vezina voting over a 12 years span. Pretty incredible.

 

[Pwnasaurus]

You don't find it interesting that 8 of 10 years they both played in the league together Brodeur finished a head of Roy in Vezina voting?

And one of the years Roy finished a head of Brodeur; was Brodeur's Rookie year.

That is not substanstial in your mind? It is mine. Awards of this nature to show "dominance" is basically one of the essential arguements this board uses on every single topic that arises between players.

I also found it interesting that after Brodeur's first two seasons in the league (one of which he was rookie of the year) he never finished Lower than 5th in Vezina voting over a 12 years span. Pretty incredible.

I imagine a lot of people put great stock in Roy's 2 Smythe trophies. Unfortunately, you can't discredit those and not discredit Vezina voting as well so I guess you are stuck.

 

[JimEIV]

I imagine a lot of people put great stock in Roy's 2 Smythe trophies. Unfortunately, you can't discredit those and not discredit Vezina voting as well so I guess you are stuck.

I haven't "discredited" made any judgments, or any "preconceived notions" on anything in this thread.

Just stating facts I find interesting.
_______________________________

But back to your initial statement;

imagine a lot of people put great stock in Roy's 2 Smythe trophies.

So is what you are saying is 2 years of incredible playoff performance outweighs 10 years of regular season dominance on the All time top 100 List??? Interesting --- Now I want to talk about Hasek

 

[Pwnasaurus]

I haven't "discredited" made any judgments, or any "preconceived notions" on anything in this thread.

Just stating facts I find interesting.
_______________________________

But back to your initial statement;

So is what you are saying is 2 years of incredible playoff performance outweighs 10 years of regular season dominance on the All time top 100 List??? Interesting --- Now I want to talk about Hasek

If anything I think Brodeur is underrated historically. I had him #27 on my original top 100 list. I'll let others regurgitate the Roy arguments or link them as they see fit.

 

[JimEIV]

If anything I think Brodeur is underrated historically. I had him #27 on my original top 100 list. I'll let others regurgitate the Roy arguments or link them as they see fit.

It often seems to be a matter of Convenient Logic…1+1 = 2 except when I need it to = 3

It is called the Pythagorean-HockeysFuture theorem

 

[Pwnasaurus]

It often seems to a matter of Convenient Logic…1+1 = 2 except when I need it to = 3

It is called the Pythagorean-HockeysFuture theorem

Depends on who's doing the math...there are a lot of folks who can add but far more who can't.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I imagine a lot of people put great stock in Roy's 2 Smythe trophies. Unfortunately, you can't discredit those and not discredit Vezina voting as well so I guess you are stuck.

My guess as to why people put more stock into Roy's 2 Smythe Trophies than you'd like them to is because he has 3 Smythe Trophies.

So if people are putting about 50% more stock into the trophies than you'd expect them to, that would account for the difference.

Which segues nicely into Jim's comment above that 1+1=2 unless people want it to equal 3, and your follow-up about how lots of people can't add.

 

[Pwnasaurus]

My guess as to why people put more stock into Roy's 2 Smythe Trophies than you'd like them to is because he has 3 Smythe Trophies.

So if people are putting about 50% more stock into the trophies than you'd expect them to, that would account for the difference.

Which segues nicely into Jim's comment above that 1+1=2 unless people want it to equal 3, and your follow-up about how lots of people can't add.

Meh, I meant 3. They are right next to each other on the keyboards, I hate that.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Meh, I meant 3. They are right next to each other on the keyboards, I hate that.

It's no worries - I just found the irony amusing.

Bottom line - Brodeur boosters can always find their own arguments, and Roy boosters can always find their own arguments. And then there are Hasek boosters.

Because of my background, I try to stay as neutral as I can, but given my location (and the fact that I've coached the son of one of the three - yes, the one who had a tizzy this year ) it's hard for me to stay neutral.