Pwnasaurus
Registered User
It's no worries - I just found the irony amusing.
Indeed, the ironing is delicious.
It's no worries - I just found the irony amusing.
It's no worries - I just found the irony amusing.
Bottom line - Brodeur boosters can always find their own arguments, and Roy boosters can always find their own arguments. And then there are Hasek boosters.
Because of my background, I try to stay as neutral as I can, but given my location (and the fact that I've coached the son of one of the three - yes, the one who had a tizzy this year ) it's hard for me to stay neutral.
Ah hah! Now we know who to blame! It's all your fault!
Is this from a Library? Or do you have a link for it?It's well known that Mark Messier narrowly beat Ray Bourque for the Hart trophy in 1990 by a narrow margin (227 vs 225 voting point). I've finally found a published source that suggests "suspicious" voting:
"Messier nosed out Boston Bruins defenseman Ray Bourque in the closest vote in history for the award... Surprisingly, six hockey writers left Bourque off their ballots, which made the difference in the voting... "That's a joke", Mike Milbury said. "They'll have to do something about the system"."
This doesn't tell us anything new, but it's good to have a source for this controversial vote.
Source: Globe & Mail, Thursday June 7, 1990, page A20 (spots), article "Messier just edges Bourque for Hart" by David Shoalts
Is this from a Library? Or do you have a link for it?
There used to be 3 Newspaper archived quotes available, but they have all since become defunct.
The articles I read claim only 3 writers left him off the ballot, but all 3 were Edmonton writers. Or maybe it meant the 3 most suspicious. Its been a long time since I read it.
That's it for now. I'm stopping here because the NHL Awards media guide has (at least partial) voting results for the all-star teams from 1947-present.
All that media guide has is the voting points received by the first and second all-star team member, unfortunately.
That's exactly a big part of what I'm looking for. Especially for goalies pre-70. I went to a local sport and memorabilia store today and they didn't have it.
The least info we can find should be posted in this thread. That's an incredible point of reference.
All that is going to show is the margin of victory between first and second. What I really like to know is who was 3rd, 4th, etc.
Is there an updated master list of all voting records anywhere?
Nobody seems to have posted 2000/2001 votes yet, so here they are.
2000-2001 Hart
1. Joe Sakic, COL 585 (53-6-2-1-0)
2. Mario Lemieux, PIT 272 (8-17-10-6-5)
3. Jaromir Jagr, PIT 210 (0-20-10-5-5)
4. Roman Cechmanek, PHI 89 (0-2-8-10-5)
5. Martin Brodeur, N.J. 64 (0-4-4-4-4)
6. Patrik Elias, N.J. 61 (0-3-4-5-5)
7. Doug Weight, EDM 61 (0-2-7-2-6)
8. Dominik Hasek, BUF 42 (0-3-2-3-2)
9. Pavel Bure, FLA 41 (0-0-4-5-6)
10. Nicklas Lidstrom, DET 38 (0-2-1-6-1)
11. Markus Naslund, VAN 20 (1-1-0-0-3)
12. Sean Burke, PHX 17 (0-0-2-1-4)
13. Mike Modano, DAL 17 (0-0-1-3-3)
14. Alexei Yashin, OTT 15 (0-0-2-1-2)
15. Scott Stevens, N.J. 13 (0-0-2-1-0)
16. Alexei Kovalev, PIT 10 (0-1-0-1-0)
17. Tommy Salo, EDM 10 (0-0-2-0-0)
18. Evgeni Nabokov, S.J. 8 (0-0-1-0-3)
19. Sergei Fedorov, DET 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
20. Peter Bondra, WSH 7 (0-0-0-1-4)
21. Jason Allison, BOS 4 (0-0-0-1-1)
Steve Yzerman, DET 4 (0-0-0-1-1)
23. Rob Blake, L.A.-COL 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Brett Hull, DAL 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Patrick Lalime, OTT 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Keith Primeau, PHI 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Mark Recchi, PHI 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
28. Arturs Irbe, CAR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Jeff O'Neill, CAR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
2000-2001 Vezina
1. Dominik Hasek, BUF 85 (9-12-4)
2. Roman Cechmanek, PHI 65 (7-9-3)
3. Martin Brodeur, N.J. 42 (7-2-1)
4. Evgeni Nabokov, S.J. 29 (3-3-5)
5. Patrick Roy, COL 19 (2-1-6)
6. Sean Burke, PHX 12 (1-2-1)
7. Tommy Salo, EDM 7 (1-0-2)
8. Curtis Joseph, TOR 4 (0-1-1)
9. Patrick Lalime, OTT 3 (0-0-3)
10. Arturs Irbe, CAR 2 (0-0-2)
11. Ed Belfour, DAL 1 (0-0-1)
Manny Fernandez, MIN 1 (0-0-1)
2000-2001 Norris
1. Nicklas Lidstrom, DET 600 (56-5-1-0-0)
2. Ray Bourque, COL 251 (4-16-12-10-9)
3. Scott Stevens, N.J. 203 (1-15-14-4-6)
4. Rob Blake, L.A.-COL 176 (1-11-8-14-7)
5. Brian Leetch, NYR 126 (0-9-7-5-13)
6. Sergei Gonchar, WSH 94 (0-1-9-12-6)
7. Al MacInnis, STL 49 (0-0-6-5-4)
8. Sergei Zubov, DAL 28 (0-1-1-4-4)
9. Brian Rafalski, N.J. 26 (0-2-1-2-1)
10. Eric Desjardins, PHI 14 (0-2-0-0-0)
11. Chris Pronger, STL 14 (0-0-1-2-3)
12. Wade Redden, OTT 13 (0-0-1-2-2)
13. Derian Hatcher, DAL 9 (0-0-1-1-1)
14. Dan McGillis, PHI 4 (0-0-0-1-1)
15. Ed Jovanovski, VAN 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
16. Brad Lukowich, DAL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Jason Smith, EDM 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Oleg Tverdovsky, ANA 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
2000-2001 Selke
1. John Madden, N.J. 269 (14-10-10-2-3)
2. Joe Sakic, COL 249 (15-9-3-6-3)
3. Mike Modano, DAL 199 (8-8-7-8-4)
4. Mike Ricci, S.J. 125 (6-2-6-6-3)
5. Steve Yzerman, DET 108 (3-7-3-3-5)
6. Jere Lehtinen, DAL 93 (1-4-8-3-6)
7. Radek Bonk, OTT 66 (2-4-1-4-1)
8. Patrik Elias, N.J. 64 (2-2-4-3-1)
9. Bobby Holik, N.J. 47 (2-3-1-0-1)
10. Todd Marchant, EDM 46 (1-2-4-0-2)
11. Peter Forsberg, COL 44 (2-3-0-0-3)
12. Sergei Fedorov, DET 35 (2-0-3-0-0)
13. Curtis Brown, BUF 30 (2-1-0-1-0)
14. Marian Hossa, OTT 19 (1-0-1-1-1)
15. Petr Sykora, N.J. 19 (0-2-0-1-2)
16. Magnus Arvedson, OTT 18 (0-1-1-1-3)
17. Rod Brind'Amour, CAR 14 (0-1-0-2-1)
18. Zigmund Palffy, L.A. 13 (1-0-0-1-0)
19. Jeff Halpern, WSH 13 (0-0-2-0-3)
20. Gary Roberts, TOR 12 (0-1-1-0-0)
21. Milan Hejduk, COL 12 (0-1-0-1-2)
22. Mike Keane, DAL 10 (0-1-0-1-0)
23. Kris Draper, DET 10 (0-0-2-0-0)
24. Steve Konowalchuk, WSH 9 (0-0-0-3-0)
25. Niklas Sundstrom, S.J. 8 (0-0-1-1-0)
26. Craig Conroy, STL-CGY 7 (0-0-1-0-2)
27. Rob Zamuner, OTT 7 (0-0-0-2-1)
28. Paul Kariya, ANA 6 (0-0-1-0-1)
29. Steve Sullivan, CHI 6 (0-0-0-2-0)
30. Andrei Nikolishin, WSH 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Owen Nolan, S.J. 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
32. Adam Oates, WSH 4 (0-0-0-1-1)
Doug Weight, EDM 4 (0-0-0-1-1)
34. Kevyn Adams, CBJ 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Mike Grier, EDM 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Michal Handzus, STL-PHX 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Alexander Mogilny, N.J. 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Joe Nieuwendyk, DAL 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Dave Reid, COL 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Mike Sullivan, PHX 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
41. Bill Guerin, EDM-BOS 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
Dave Scatchard, NYI 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
43. Andrew Cassels, VAN 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Ron Francis, CAR 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Kent Manderville, PHI 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Randy McKay, N.J. 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Mark Recchi, PHI 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Brendan Shanahan, DET 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Ryan Smyth, EDM 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Stephane Yelle, COL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
2000-2001 Calder
1. Evgeni Nabokov, S.J. 565 (50-7-2-2-0)
2. Brad Richards, T.B. 416 (9-38-10-3-1)
3. Martin Havlat, OTT 240 (2-5-26-17-4)
4. Lubomir Visnovsky, L.A. 124 (0-5-9-12-8)
5. Shane Willis, CAR 91 (1-2-3-13-13)
6. Colin White, N.J. 56 (0-3-4-2-9)
7. Marian Gaborik, MIN 49 (0-2-2-5-10)
8. Daniel Sedin, VAN 19 (0-0-1-2-8)
9. Roberto Luongo, FLA 18 (0-0-3-1-0)
10. Steve Reinprecht, L.A.-COL 12 (0-0-1-2-1)
11. Marty Turco, DAL 8 (0-0-1-1-0)
12. Brent Johnson, STL 8 (0-0-0-2-2)
13. Karel Rachunek, OTT 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
David Vyborny, CBJ 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
15. Dimitri Kalinin, BUF 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Ossi Vaananen, PHX 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
2000-2001 Lady Byng
1. Joe Sakic, COL 312 (15-18-5-3-2)
2. Nicklas Lidstrom, DET 308 (21-7-7-4-2)
3. Adam Oates, WSH 195 (7-7-13-3-2)
4. Brett Hull, DAL 110 (2-3-9-6-6)
5. Zigmund Palffy, L.A. 95 (2-4-4-8-3)
6. Paul Kariya, ANA 89 (4-3-2-5-3)
7. Ron Francis, CAR 81 (5-0-4-3-2)
8. Mario Lemieux, PIT 66 (2-3-3-2-4)
9. Sergei Samsonov, BOS 27 (0-1-3-1-2)
10. Steve Yzerman, DET 26 (0-2-0-4-0)
11. Teemu Selanne, ANA-S.J. 25 (0-3-0-1-1)
12. Alexei Yashin, OTT 24 (0-2-1-0-5)
13. Pierre Turgeon, STL 24 (0-1-0-5-2)
14. Simon Gagne, PHI 17 (0-0-2-1-4)
15. Martin Straka, PIT 16 (0-0-2-2-0)
16. John Madden, N.J. 15 (0-2-0-0-1)
17. Sergei Berezin, TOR 15 (0-1-1-1-0)
18. Radek Dvorak, NYR 13 (1-0-0-1-0)
Niklas Sundstrom, S.J. 13 (1-0-0-1-0)
20. Mike Modano, DAL 13 (1-0-0-0-3)
21. Daniel Alfredsson, OTT 11 (0-0-1-2-0)
22. Mark Recchi, PHI 10 (1-0-0-0-0)
23. Robert Lang, PIT 8 (0-1-0-0-1)
24. Pavol Demitra, STL 8 (0-0-1-1-0)
25. Ray Bourque, COL 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Patrik Elias, N.J. 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Igor Larionov, FLA-DET 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
Alexander Mogilny, N.J. 7 (0-1-0-0-0)
29. Eric Daze, CHI 6 (0-0-1-0-1)
Jozef Stumpel, L.A. 6 (0-0-1-0-1)
31. Brad Richards, T.B. 6 (0-0-0-2-0)
32. Peter Forsberg, COL 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
Sergei Zubov, DAL 5 (0-0-1-0-0)
34. Patric Kjellberg, NSH 5 (0-0-0-1-2)
Brian Leetch, NYR 5 (0-0-0-1-2)
Luc Robitaille, L.A. 5 (0-0-0-1-2)
37. Sergei Fedorov, DET 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Ray Ferraro, ATL 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
Sami Kapanen, CAR 3 (0-0-0-1-0)
40. Andrew Cassels, VAN 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
Ulf Dahlen, WSH 2 (0-0-0-0-2)
42. Tony Amonte, CHI 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Milan Hejduk, COL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Viktor Kozlov, FLA 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Patrick Lalime, OTT 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Brian Rafalski, N.J. 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Petr Sykora, N.J. 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
Scott Young, STL 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
2000-2001 Adams
1. Bill Barber, PHI 125 (17-11-7)
2. Scotty Bowman, DET 95 (14-6-7)
3. Jacques Martin, OTT 92 (10-13-3)
4. Larry Robinson, N.J. 83 (11-7-7)
5. Bob Hartley, COL 59 (5-10-4)
6. Craig MacTavish, EDM 53 (4-8-9)
7. Ken Hitchcock, DAL 29 (4-2-3)
8. Marc Crawford, VAN 24 (1-4-7)
9. Andy Murray, L.A. 18 (3-0-3)
10. Lindy Ruff, BUF 17 (0-4-5)
11. Darryl Sutter, S.J. 13 (2-1-0)
12. Jacques Lemaire, MIN 11 (0-2-5)
13. Joel Quenneville, STL 10 (2-0-0)
14. Barry Trotz, NSH 9 (0-1-6)
15. Ron Wilson, WSH 7 (0-1-4)
16. Paul Maurice, CAR 6 (0-2-0)
17. Mike Keenan, BOS 3 (0-1-0)
18. Dave King, CBJ 3 (0-0-3)
2000-2001 NHL ALL-STAR TEAM
CENTER
1. Joe Sakic, COL 291 (54-7-0)
2. Mario Lemieux, PIT 112 (7-23-8)
3. Doug Weight, EDM 34 (0-8-10)
4. Mike Modano, DAL 28 (0-6-10)
5. Jason Allison, BOS 23 (0-4-11)
6. Peter Forsberg, COL 22 (0-5-7)
7. Alexei Yashin, OTT 14 (0-2-8)
8. Martin Straka, PIT 13 (0-3-4)
9. Sergei Fedorov, DET 6 (0-2-0)
10. Keith Primeau, PHI 3 (0-1-0)
11. Adam Oates, WSH 2 (0-0-2)
12. Petr Sykora, N.J. 1 (0-0-1)
RIGHT WING
1. Jaromir Jagr, PIT 293 (55-6-0)
2. Pavel Bure, FLA 137 (5-33-13)
3. Alexei Kovalev, PIT 60 (0-14-18)
4. Zigmund Palffy, L.A. 13 (0-1-10)
5. Bill Guerin, EDM-BOS 12 (0-2-6)
6. Peter Bondra, WSH 9 (0-1-6)
7. Mark Recchi, PHI 8 (1-1-0)
8. Milan Hejduk, COL 5 (0-1-2)
Brett Hull, DAL 5 (0-1-2)
10. Alexander Mogilny, N.J. 4 (0-0-4)
11. Petr Sykora, N.J. 3 (0-1-0)
LEFT WING
1. Patrik Elias, N.J. 280 (51-8-1)
2. Luc Robitaille, L.A. 80 (0-21-17)
3. Markus Naslund, VAN 78 (5-16-5)
4. Keith Tkachuk, PHX-STL 33 (1-4-16)
5. Martin Straka, PIT 27 (4-2-1)
6. Brendan Shanahan, DET 23 (0-5-8)
7. Alex Tanguay, COL 8 (0-2-2)
8. Paul Kariya, ANA 5 (0-0-5)
9. Peter Bondra, WSH 3 (0-1-0)
Pavel Bure, FLA 3 (0-1-0)
Fredrik Modin, T.B. 3 (0-1-0)
12. Bill Guerin, EDM-BOS 1 (0-0-1)
Marian Hossa, OTT 1 (0-0-1)
Alexander Mogilny, N.J. 1 (0-0-1)
Zigmund Palffy, L.A. 1 (0-0-1)
Gary Roberts, TOR 1 (0-0-1)
Ryan Smyth, EDM 1 (0-0-1)
DEFENSE
1. Nicklas Lidstrom, DET 282 (53-5-2)
2. Ray Bourque, COL 169 (18-23-10)
3. Rob Blake, L.A.-COL 151 (15-22-10)
4. Scott Stevens, N.J. 133 (17-14-6)
5. Brian Leetch, NYR 112 (10-14-20)
6. Sergei Gonchar, WSH 68 (1-15-18)
7. Al MacInnis, STL 39 (3-5-9)
8. Sergei Zubov, DAL 35 (1-8-6)
9. Brian Rafalski, N.J. 30 (2-5-5)
10. Chris Pronger, STL 27 (1-5-7)
11. Wade Redden, OTT 14 (0-3-5)
12. Ed Jovanovski, VAN 10 (0-1-7)
13. Eric Desjardins, PHI 5 (1-0-0)
14. Derian Hatcher, DAL 5 (0-1-2)
15. Dan McGillis, PHI 4 (0-0-4)
16. Scott Niedermayer, N.J. 3 (0-0-3)
17. Oleg Tverdovsky, ANA 2 (0-0-2)
18. Darius Kasparaitis, PIT 1 (0-0-1)
Brad Lukowich, DAL 1 (0-0-1)
Janne Niinimaa, EDM 1 (0-0-1)
Teppo Numminen, PHX 1 (0-0-1)
Jason Smith, EDM 1 (0-0-1)
Lubomir Visnovsky, L.A. 1 (0-0-1)
GOALTENDER
1. Dominik Hasek, BUF 160 (19-18-11)
2. Roman Cechmanek, PHI 154 (19-17-8)
3. Martin Brodeur, N.J. 143 (18-15-8)
4. Patrick Roy, COL 46 (3-7-10)
5. Sean Burke, PHX 20 (2-1-7)
6. Evgeni Nabokov, S.J. 9 (0-1-6)
7. Patrick Lalime, OTT 6 (0-2-0)
8. Ed Belfour, DAL 2 (0-0-2)
Manny Fernandez, MIN 2 (0-0-2)
Olaf Kolzig, WSH 2 (0-0-2)
Tommy Salo, EDM 2 (0-0-2)
12. Arturs Irbe, CAR 1 (0-0-1)
Felix Potvin, VAN-L.A. 1 (0-0-1)
Ron Tugnutt, CBJ 1 (0-0-1)
I thought the voting in 2001 was ridiculous. Lemieux scored at a great pace but he only played 43 games, the rest of the season he was useless. Hell in 1990 he misses just 20 games and gets half the amount fo votes.
Hasek and Bure were pretty much 1 man shows this season, I think they deserved more votes. I mean Sakic had an awesome season but that team was full of stars.
People had stars in their eyes when Lemieux made his comeback because of the incredible change in fortunes he was so obviously responsible for in both the team and Jagr. Without Lemieux Jagr finishes with under 100 points and the Pens might not even make the playoffs.
and Uh, Sakic carried the Avs that season. For the last time, it does not matter if a team is full of stars or not. Stop trying to devalue the players. Without Sakic, that team does not go where it went.
There is no way, shape or form that Hasek or Bure deserved it more. Bure is still a one dimensional selfish player who it did not matter who his linemates were, he was putting up a set number of points, and Hasek was not his best that year, and Buffalo had the same very good defensive team in front of him as usual.
Sakic had a two way season of epic value, and deserved the Hart.
Hasek had the better overall season than Lemieux ok, I dont care you are wrong. Lemeiux won the art ross in 1992 and played 64 games and he didnt end up as the runner up. If you miss the first 3 months of the season, you shouldn't be a hart trophy nominee. Even if Hasek wasn't at his best, he was still the best goalie and his team didn't have one player that was even top 50 in scoring, yet they ended up with the 4th best record in the east.
Than Lemieux? Sure. Ill buy that. Like I said, the voters were starry eyed about him due to his comeback and the impact he made on a losing pens team and Jagr's scoring.
My beef with your "He was on a stacked team" line is Sakic, because Sakic was the man, team or no team.
But Sakic had a better year than Hasek. You can harp about Hasek's team all you want, but the fact of the matter is, they were one of the better defensive teams in the league. Them not having a top scorer is irrelevant to their style. They were a team that tried to beat you by a single goal and yes, Hasek was their franchise player. But it is a lie to say they were a terrible team carried by Hasek. They were excellent defensively.
I thought the voting in 2001 was ridiculous. Lemieux scored at a great pace but he only played 43 games, the rest of the season he was useless. Hell in 1990 he misses just 20 games and gets half the amount fo votes.
Hasek and Bure were pretty much 1 man shows this season, I think they deserved more votes. I mean Sakic had an awesome season but that team was full of stars.
You tried to take credit away from Sakic by saying he was on a great team, when in fact, he was a head and shoulders above anyone on that team that year.I never disputed the fact that Sakic didn't deserve his trophy, I just said Bure and Hasek should have been given more votes and lemieux shoudlnt have been runner-up based on half a season.
Hasek and Bure were pretty much 1 man shows this season, I think they deserved more votes. I mean Sakic had an awesome season but that team was full of stars.