GDT: Release the Andersson! Flames vs. Wings 11/9/2017, 7:00 PM MT

[Mobiandi]

And on the subject of Ferland, I love him. But he blows hot and cold quite often. I still think Tkachuk would better complement Gaudreau. He's much more consistent and apt at creating space. He doesn't have Ferland's shot, but then again neither did Hudler

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Rittich should be the backup. He’s ready. I have way more confidence playing him in 15 games then I do Lack.

 

[Rangediddy]

Rittich should be the backup. He’s ready. I have way more confidence playing him in 15 games then I do Lack.

I think we're seeing Gulutzan make adjustments to the roster to find the best players to make up the roster this early in the season.

Stajan, Glass, Bartkowski, & Familton aren't playing because the better players in Jankowski, Kulak & Lazar are. Rittich just needs an opportunity to show he is the better backup and I think it's possible Lack is demoted (somehow).

Sidenote: Jankowski's goal last night puts his shooting % at 12.5%. Very reasonable.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Its an interesting debate. The Flames seem to like Gilles better and are giving him more games than Rittich so far if my memory serves. However is it better for him to play more games than ride the pine? Probably.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Its not hate I just don't think he should be playing in the top 6.

Even this supposed great goal tonight was in large part to the terrible defense from Detroit more than him having some great moves.

I have no issue with Ferland being in the bottom 6 (preferably 4th line energy role) but he doesn't have nearly the skill to be in a top 6 role.

You sure about that?

Since Ferland was put on the top line (39 games):
Ferland 5v5 G/60: 1.54
Monahan 5v5 G/60: 1.32

Over the last 2 seasons:
Ferland is 27th in the league at 1.07 5v5 G/60
Monahan is 66th at 0.85 5v5 G/60

Monahan has played almost exclusively with Gaudreau over that period.
Ferland has played more with Stajan, Brouwer, Bennett, and Versteeg.

I guess Monahan doesn't have the skill to be in a top line role either?

You need to learn the definition of hate. No one hates Ferland. We simply think is better suited for a different role and don't think he is some kind of greek god like you do. A good 5-10 games doesn't change that. We will gladly admit that Ferland is capable of being in the top 6 for short periods of time.... that is until he forgets the type of player he needs to be to be successful and then tries being too cute with the puck rather than the player that makes him a good player. Until Ferland can put together multiple good months in a row, that opinion will not change.

Cute plays like his goal last night? Or his pass on Monahan's disallowed goal?

The guy has 13 goals in his last 36 games playing 14 minutes a night with minimal PP time and you guys talk about him like he's only good for throwing checks and screening the goalie. Only 27 players in the entire league have scored 5v5 goals at the same rate as Ferland since the start of last season.

 

[Baxterman]

You sure about that?

Since Ferland was put on the top line (39 games):
Ferland 5v5 G/60: 1.54
Monahan 5v5 G/60: 1.32

Over the last 2 seasons:
Ferland is 27th in the league at 1.07 5v5 G/60
Monahan is 66th at 0.85 5v5 G/60

Monahan has played almost exclusively with Gaudreau over that period.
Ferland has played more with Stajan, Brouwer, Bennett, and Versteeg.

I guess Monahan doesn't have the skill to be in a top line role either?

Monahan over the past two seasons- 82-27-31-58 and 16-8-8-16

Ferland- 76-15-10-25 and 15-6-2-8

In 6 game so far Monahan has a comparable season to Ferlands best.

G/60 mean jack crap when you can't translate that to production on the ice. Ferland has been given every opportunity to shine and even with him leaching points off Gaudreau and Monahan his absolute best season is still 15 goals and 25 points.

Also when you see them play Ferland rarely (if ever) creates a goal on his own. He is so reliant on other players setting him up in can't miss spots or having the defense completely collapse to score.

Also his passing is horrible that it kills a lot of potential plays as well.

So yes i am 100% sure that despite your hate for him, Monahan has more than enough skill to not only be in a top line role but to be the best player on that top line as he has been for the majority of his career.

 

[Kahvi]

I think we've seen enough now to know that there is no reason for Bartkowski to play. That said, we shouldn't get rid of him, because if we do, we'll be forcing a prospect to be a healthy scratch every game.

As they should

I know there's been a lot of discussion about veterans vs. prospects, but this really sums it up. Bartkowski is not the best D to be #6, but in the long run it might be better to let him play few minutes in NHL this season and let Anderson play big minutes in the AHL. Injuries happen, prospects get their chances then.

 

[FlamerForLife]

I would give lack 1 of the 3 games next week. Imo he should play next Wednesday against Detroit.

 

[Lunatik]

You sure about that?

Since Ferland was put on the top line (39 games):
Ferland 5v5 G/60: 1.54
Monahan 5v5 G/60: 1.32

Over the last 2 seasons:
Ferland is 27th in the league at 1.07 5v5 G/60
Monahan is 66th at 0.85 5v5 G/60

Monahan has played almost exclusively with Gaudreau over that period.
Ferland has played more with Stajan, Brouwer, Bennett, and Versteeg.

I guess Monahan doesn't have the skill to be in a top line role either?



Cute plays like his goal last night? Or his pass on Monahan's disallowed goal?

The guy has 13 goals in his last 36 games playing 14 minutes a night with minimal PP time and you guys talk about him like he's only good for throwing checks and screening the goalie. Only 27 players in the entire league have scored 5v5 goals at the same rate as Ferland since the start of last season.

goals/points per 60 is f***ing moronic to use as evidence of anything. It is literally the most useless stat and the only people that use it are the ones too inept to realize that not all minutes are created equally.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Monahan over the past two seasons- 82-27-31-58 and 16-8-8-16

Ferland- 76-15-10-25 and 15-6-2-8

In 6 game so far Monahan has a comparable season to Ferlands best.

G/60 mean jack crap when you can't translate that to production on the ice.

You don't like G/60? Ok how about this. Since joining the top line, Ferland has 12 ESG in 36gp, Monahan has 12 ESG in 39gp

Ferland has been given every opportunity to shine and even with him leaching points off Gaudreau and Monahan his absolute best season is still 15 goals and 25 points.

Every opportunity? The guy gets 14 minutes a night and is typically overlooked for Troy freakin' Brouwer on the PP

Also when you see them play Ferland rarely (if ever) creates a goal on his own. He is so reliant on other players setting him up in can't miss spots or having the defense completely collapse to score.

Also his passing is horrible that it kills a lot of potential plays as well.

I think the player you are describing is Sean Monahan, who is actually completely dependent on getting set up in can't miss spots by Gaudreau. Ferland's goal last night was a perfect example of something that Monahan is completely incapable of doing, and was absolutely a goal he created on his own. As was his unassisted goal the night before lol. And about half of his snipes from last year.

So yes i am 100% sure that despite your hate for him, Monahan has more than enough skill to not only be in a top line role but to be the best player on that top line as he has been for the majority of his career.

If you think Ferland has "nowhere near enough skill to be a top 6 player", yet he has shown to be more capable of scoring goals at ES than Monahan when playing with Gaudreau, then I don't know how you can't say the same for Monahan.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

goals/points per 60 is ****ing moronic to use as evidence of anything. It is literally the most useless stat and the only people that use it are the ones too inept to realize that not all minutes are created equally.

Since joining the top line, Ferland has 12 ESG in 36gp, Monahan has 12 ESG in 39gp.

I'm ready for your excuse.

 

[Mr Snrub]

Monahan over the past two seasons- 82-27-31-58 and 16-8-8-16

Ferland- 76-15-10-25 and 15-6-2-8

In 6 game so far Monahan has a comparable season to Ferlands best.

G/60 mean jack crap when you can't translate that to production on the ice. Ferland has been given every opportunity to shine and even with him leaching points off Gaudreau and Monahan his absolute best season is still 15 goals and 25 points.

Also when you see them play Ferland rarely (if ever) creates a goal on his own. He is so reliant on other players setting him up in can't miss spots or having the defense completely collapse to score.

Also his passing is horrible that it kills a lot of potential plays as well.

So yes i am 100% sure that despite your hate for him, Monahan has more than enough skill to not only be in a top line role but to be the best player on that top line as he has been for the majority of his career.

I don't think an argument can really be made that Ferland is better than Monahan but you're really selling him short. The guy hasn't been given "every opportunity to shine", he spent more than half of last year in the bottom six playing with Bennett or Stajan. Hard to call that "leeching" off Monahan and Gaudreau. Not to mention that the top line didn't honestly start clicking until we tried him there - his speed and puck protection were a perfect fit for Johnny and Mony. Probably a lot of the reason that those two have had such great starts to the year is that Ferland has been a solid linemate from day one of the season.

Additionally, not only does Ferland create goals by being a hound in the offensive zone, but it's possible that his offensive playmaking is better than Monahan's.

The guy's gonna finish with 25+ goals and all you can do is complain... Jeez. Ferland was a slam dunk of a pick, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. We're paying him less than two million and he's going to be one of the best goal scorers in the West.

 

[BigRangy]

To those who want Bartkowski in the press box, Wotherspoon has been solid in the AHL for the past few seasons and is now 25. He's not a prospect anymore. There's nothing he'd love more than an NHL paycheck so I doubt he'd be disappointed doing popcorn duty. He deserves NHL money a whole heck of a lot more than Bart does.

 

[Baxterman]

I don't think an argument can really be made that Ferland is better than Monahan but you're really selling him short. The guy hasn't been given "every opportunity to shine", he spent more than half of last year in the bottom six playing with Bennett or Stajan. Hard to call that "leeching" off Monahan and Gaudreau. Not to mention that the top line didn't honestly start clicking until we tried him there - his speed and puck protection were a perfect fit for Johnny and Mony. Probably a lot of the reason that those two have had such great starts to the year is that Ferland has been a solid linemate from day one of the season.

Additionally, not only does Ferland create goals by being a hound in the offensive zone, but it's possible that his offensive playmaking is better than Monahan's.

The guy's gonna finish with 25+ goals and all you can do is complain... Jeez. Ferland was a slam dunk of a pick, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. We're paying him less than two million and he's going to be one of the best goal scorers in the West.

The only time Ferland has been taken off the top line is because he deserves it. It is crazy how fast people forget the long stretches of time Ferland does nothing because he has a few goals in the last two games.

As for the "only time the top line clicked" look at Ferlands game log from last season he went a long time at the end of the year basically providing nothing. But it true Ferland fashion he was hot in the first fw games he was moved up so people focus on that. Also, that top line clicked a hell of a lot more with a talented (at the time) Hudler there rather than with Ferland the plug.

Also not sure how you can admonish me for not appreciating hypothetical things like "he is going to score 25 goals this year." How about we see him actually do that because he has had almost 200 NHL games so far and hasn't come close to scoring 25 goals in a season yet.

 

[Baxterman]

Since joining the top line, Ferland has 12 ESG in 36gp, Monahan has 12 ESG in 39gp.

I'm ready for your excuse.

What excuse Monahan has scored way more goal over that time than Ferland. ESG goals aren't anymore valuable than PPG or SHG.

Not sure when you are counting Ferland joining the top line but most say around Feb. 21 last year (could be wrong) since then Monahan has 20 goals including 4 in the play-offs when Ferland went 0-fer.

I will take that any day over creating qualifiers to try and skew the argument.

 

[Lunatik]

Since joining the top line, Ferland has 12 ESG in 36gp, Monahan has 12 ESG in 39gp.

I'm ready for your excuse.

That's wonderful, but you do know that ES isn't everything right? Monahan scores more goals. Monahan sets up more goals. I get you have this irrational hate for Monahan, but if you are actually trying to make an argument that Ferland is better than Monahan, you won't be right not matter what numbers you manipulate.

Monahan is simply a better player, that is not an opinion, it is an undisputed fact.

It's also hilarious that you make these stupid f***ing arguments for Ferland, but you shit all over Monahan and claim he only does well because of Gaudreau, but in reality there is an infinitely higher possibility that Ferland is the one riding the coattails of Gaudreau and Monahan.

 

[Baxterman]

I think the player you are describing is Sean Monahan, who is actually completely dependent on getting set up in can't miss spots by Gaudreau. Ferland's goal last night was a perfect example of something that Monahan is completely incapable of doing, and was absolutely a goal he created on his own. As was his unassisted goal the night before lol. And about half of his snipes from last year.

Completely dependent on Gaudreau?

When he was a 19 year old rookie he scored 22 goals with Gaudreau in the NCAA. That is basically Ferlands best season points-wise.

Much like OKG with Bennett, it is amazing that you can see how bad Monahan is but no other coach, GM, scout, analyst or fan around the NHL can see the same thing.

 

[Dack]

Monahan over the past two seasons- 82-27-31-58 and 16-8-8-16

Ferland- 76-15-10-25 and 15-6-2-8

In 6 game so far Monahan has a comparable season to Ferlands best.

G/60 mean jack crap when you can't translate that to production on the ice. Ferland has been given every opportunity to shine and even with him leaching points off Gaudreau and Monahan his absolute best season is still 15 goals and 25 points.

Also when you see them play Ferland rarely (if ever) creates a goal on his own. He is so reliant on other players setting him up in can't miss spots or having the defense completely collapse to score.

Also his passing is horrible that it kills a lot of potential plays as well.

So yes i am 100% sure that despite your hate for him, Monahan has more than enough skill to not only be in a top line role but to be the best player on that top line as he has been for the majority of his career.

Are you suggesting Monahan> Gaudreau?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

What excuse Monahan has scored way more goal over that time than Ferland. ESG goals aren't anymore valuable than PPG or SHG.

Not sure when you are counting Ferland joining the top line but most say around Feb. 21 last year (could be wrong) since then Monahan has 20 goals including 4 in the play-offs when Ferland went 0-fer.

I will take that any day over creating qualifiers to try and skew the argument.

Wait, so now special teams matter? You said he wasn't nearly talented enough to be a top 6 player, yet his goal scoring in the top 6 has been every bit as good, if not better than, Monahan's when playing on the top line.

Seems like your moving the goal posts a bit. Kinda hard for Ferland to score PP goals when he's not given any PP time.

 

[Baxterman]

Are you suggesting Monahan> Gaudreau?

I am not suggesting it, I am saying that as an overall player Monahan is better than Gaudreau. If I had to choose one player to keep it would be Monahan without a second thought.

 

[Mr Snrub]

The only time Ferland has been taken off the top line is because he deserves it. It is crazy how fast people forget the long stretches of time Ferland does nothing because he has a few goals in the last two games.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. When I say that Ferland hasn't really been given "every opportunity to shine", what I'm taking issue with is that you're trying to make it out like Ferland only put up 25 points last year while being stapled to Monahan and Gaudreau. That's not true. He played less than half the season with those guys, the rest of the time he played in our bottom six - you know, the one that can't score to save its life.

As for the "only time the top line clicked" look at Ferlands game log from last season he went a long time at the end of the year basically providing nothing. But it true Ferland fashion he was hot in the first fw games he was moved up so people focus on that.

I won't deny he's a hot and cold player. He's also a young player and last year was only his second in the NHL. Young and green players are inconsistent, who would've thought?

Also, that top line clicked a hell of a lot more with a talented (at the time) Hudler there rather than with Ferland the plug.

I was only referring to this last season. Johnny and Mony were underwhelming for most of the first half and didn't hit their stride until Ferland moved up to the top line.

 

[Baxterman]

Wait, so now special teams matter? You said he wasn't nearly talented enough to be a top 6 player, yet his goal scoring in the top 6 has been every bit as good, if not better than, Monahan's when playing on the top line.

Seems like your moving the goal posts a bit. Kinda hard for Ferland to score PP goals when he's not given any PP time.

It certainly hasn't been better and his assist totals are dwarfed as well. Also again if you watch Monahan gets goals from being skilled and creating opportunity. Ferland has a lot of fluke and goals created by the defense (last night) or Monahan.

He is not on the PP because he is not good enough.

 

[Mr Snrub]

It certainly hasn't been better and his assist totals are dwarfed as well. Also again if you watch Monahan gets goals from being skilled and creating opportunity. Ferland has a lot of fluke and goals created by the defense (last night) or Monahan.

He is not on the PP because he is not good enough.

There are plenty of things I would call Ferland's goal last night but a fluke is not one. Even against poor defense it takes great wheels and real strength on the puck to be able to walk in on a goaltender like he did.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That's wonderful, but you do know that ES isn't everything right? Monahan scores more goals. Monahan sets up more goals. I get you have this irrational hate for Monahan, but if you are actually trying to make an argument that Ferland is better than Monahan, you won't be right not matter what numbers you manipulate.

Monahan is simply a better player, that is not an opinion, it is an undisputed fact.

It's also hilarious that you make these stupid ****ing arguments for Ferland, but you **** all over Monahan and claim he only does well because of Gaudreau, but in reality there is an infinitely higher possibility that Ferland is the one riding the coattails of Gaudreau and Monahan.

Jesus dude, I never once made that argument. Try to follow along.

The point I was making is that Ferland is more than skilled enough to be a top 6 player. To say he's not, when he's been a best goal scorer on a line with Sean Monahan and Johnny Gaudreau, is pretty moronic.

I also never said anything about Ferland not being carried by Gaudreau. In fact, I've been explicit in highlighting how we saw a step change in his production only once he was paired with Gaudreau.

So much insecurity among the Monahan fanboys . . .

 

[Baxterman]

There are plenty of things I would call Ferland's goal last night but a fluke is not one. Even against poor defense it takes great wheels and real strength on the puck to be able to walk in on a goaltender like he did.

It wasn't a fluke it was terrible defense. Against a adequate defense or goalie he doesn't come close to scoring. It still counts so great for him but it wasn't a play that showed any skill or is likely to be repeated in the future as most goalies won't flop around like a fish and most defensemen won't stand still reaching with weak stick checks.