Prospect Info: Red Wings Prospect Tracker - Part IX

[ricky0034]

Yeah I'm not sure what anyone else would expect. A more offensive Helm, playing on the second line would be a VERY good player. Reminds me of people complaining about Sheahan that had never watched him play. HAving two guys like Larkin and Sheahan down the middle will be great for the wings in the future

not if there's noone better in front of them it won't

those guys will probably do just fine if they're at 2C and 3C but if one of thems at 1C there's gonna be a problem

that's why I wanted someone like Fabbri with a higher ceiling

 

[newfy]

well, I think the worry with Sheahan was that he'd never made good on all of the promises of having some offensive skill to him. Considering his lack of production at ND and his only fair production at GR, I totally get any worries about him. Especially when we looked to the guys next to him and saw Nyquist and Tatar producing at much bigger clips.

Yeah I just mean it doesnt make sense to say you feel sick about drafting a prospect 15th youve never seen play, because hes compared to a more offensive Helm. People never watched Sheahan play and were calling him a huge bust from the get go. TZE and I actually watched him regularly and werent all that concerned about him becoming a solid player.

Just at draft day, everyone was raving about Larkin going to the wings, one scout even said future captain material and now people feel sick because a scout says hes a more offensive Helm. WAY too early to judge

 

[Winger98]

Yeah I just mean it doesnt make sense to say you feel sick about drafting a prospect 15th youve never seen play, because hes compared to a more offensive Helm. People never watched Sheahan play and were calling him a huge bust from the get go. TZE and I actually watched him regularly and werent all that concerned about him becoming a solid player.

Just at draft day, everyone was raving about Larkin going to the wings, one scout even said future captain material and now people feel sick because a scout says hes a more offensive Helm. WAY too early to judge

I wish the organization had just chosen a better way of describing him. Saying a more offensive Helm might be accurate, but it might have been just as accurate to say, "he could be a Ryan Kesler type." Nothing against Helm but I don't think anyone wanted our highest first round pick in twenty years compared to him.

Agree about it being way too early to judge, though, especially with Larkin who is a bit on the younger side as well. He was still 17 when we drafted him, and only turned 18 a couple of months later. Kid has a ton of time on his hands to grow his game.

 

[Chance on Chance]

not if there's noone better in front of them it won't

those guys will probably do just fine if they're at 2C and 3C but if one of thems at 1C there's gonna be a problem

that's why I wanted someone like Fabbri with a higher ceiling

Ya I wanted him or Milano

 

[detredWINgs]

Yes, we have to remember that, in reality, 1Cs are rarely around in the middle of round 1. But with that said, it is disheartening to hear that your organization's highest pick in 20 years is only looking like a more offensive Helm. Is that a valuable player? Of course. Can we blame management for not getting a better player? Not without hindsight. But is it a player who, combined with the rest of our current crop, is going to help make us a contender post-Zetterberg/Datsyuk? No. Larkin-Sheahan is not a pair of centers you contend for Cups with (let alone win). Its a nice, rugged, blue-collar pair of guys who you can get behind as a fan, but its comparable to Vermette-Hanzal in Phoenix.

Now, if we weren't so desperate for top line center talent there would probably be a lot more excitement surrounding a "more offensive Helm" but the fact remains its getting to be the 11th hour in Zetterberg/Datsyuk's career and there is still no heir apparent to their throne, let alone that of a skilled 1C who tops out as a guy like Krejci. And to make matters worse, in the back of a lot of people's minds is the thinking that if we couldn't get a 1C with our highest pick in 20 years, how far exactly do we have to fall and how good does the draft have to be before we land that guy? Its scary to think about. And rightfully so.

 

[InjuredChoker]

offensive helm at #15 isn't bad.

that position has produced.. well not much.

2013 Ryan Pulock D Brandon (OHL) New York Islanders
2012 Cody Ceci D Ottawa (OHL) Ottawa Senators
2011 Jonathan Miller C US NTDP New York Rangers
2010 Derek Forbort D U-18 NTDP Los Angeles Kings
2009 Peter Holland C Guelph (OHL) Anaheim Ducks
2008 Erik Karlsson D Frolunda Jr. (Swe) Ottawa Senators
2007 Alex Plante D Calgary Hitmen (WHL) Edmonton Oilers
2006 Riku Helenius G Ilves (Fin) Tampa Bay Lightning
2005 Ryan O'Marra C Erie Otters (OHL) New York Islanders
2004 Alexander Radulov RW Tver (Russia) Nashville Predators
2003 Robert Nilsson RW Leksands IF (SEL) New York Islanders
2002 Jesse Niinimaki C Ilves Tampere (FNL) Edmonton Oilers
2001 Igor Knyazev D Moscow Spartak (Russia) Carolina Hurricanes
2000 Artem Kryukov C Yaroslavl Torpedo (Russia) Buffalo Sabres
1999 Scott Kelman C Seattle Thunderbirds (WHL) Phoenix Coyotes

 

[SirloinUB]

I think people are blowing Larkin's perceived lack of offence out of proportion. I am confident that this organization can develop him into a top 6 center.

Future Considerations
Larkin has shown he can be an elite-level power forward in addition to showing a high level of offensive ability. His ability to take the puck hard to the net allows for unique scoring chances most players would not be able get because of a lack of size and strength.

Other scouting sources cite his speed, and hockey IQ as his prominent characteristics. This bodes quite well for NHL success.

Furthermore, even if he tops out as a "kesler-lite", he could still be a competent first line player. One only has too look at guys like Brendan Morrison. In the NHL he was never an "offensive Guy," as he scored more than 60 points just twice and more than 54 points just thrice. That said, the West Coast Express was regarded as the best line in hockey for a few seasons.

When I look at the trio of Nyquist, Larkin and Mantha, I see a group that has the potential to be an elite first line. The speed of these 3 is just ridiculous. Nyquist and Mantha bring elite skill. Nyquist and Larkin bring elite intelligence. Larkin and Mantha bring size. Larkin has impressive defensive acumen. Put it all together and we can end up with a very potent line.

I am not worried about larkin's offence. Not even a little bit.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I think people are blowing Larkin's perceived lack of offence out of proportion. I am confident that this organization can develop him into a top 6 center

Not to mention that he scored a ton of goals last year. On the second line.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Not to mention that he scored a ton of goals last year. On the second line.

and without Eichel, Milano and Tuch. The kid will be fine.

 

[SimplySolace]

I think people are blowing Larkin's perceived lack of offence out of proportion. I am confident that this organization can develop him into a top 6 center.




Other scouting sources cite his speed, and hockey IQ as his prominent characteristics. This bodes quite well for NHL success.

Furthermore, even if he tops out as a "kesler-lite", he could still be a competent first line player. One only has too look at guys like Brendan Morrison. In the NHL he was never an "offensive Guy," as he scored more than 60 points just twice and more than 54 points just thrice. That said, the West Coast Express was regarded as the best line in hockey for a few seasons.

When I look at the trio of Nyquist, Larkin and Mantha. I see a group that has the potential to be an elite first line. The speed of these 3 is just ridiculous. Nyquist and Mantha bring elite skill. Nyquist and Larkin bring elite intelligence. Larkin and Mantha bring size. Larkin has impressive defensive acumen. Put it all together and we can end up with a very potent line.

I am not worried about larkin's offence. Not even a little bit.

Oh god, yes please. Although it's crazy to think about Nyquist being 6-7 years old than those two

 

[Claypool]

offensive helm at #15 isn't bad.

that position has produced.. well not much.

The theory that since not many players drafted at a certain position don't pan out to be superstars means in no way Larkin can is quite comical.

Outside of a great two-way game with offensive upside, Larkin exudes leadership capabilities that management obviously liked.

 

[SirloinUB]

Oh god, yes please. Although it's crazy to think about Nyquist being 6-7 years old than those two

2-3 years from now we will have a "two kids and an old goat line"

 

[Chance on Chance]

Its not that I think Larkin will be bad or was a bad pick I just wanted the wings to go for a more home run type C with higher offensive upside

 

[ProPAIN]

Its not that I think Larkin will be bad or was a bad pick I just wanted the wings to go for a more home run type C with higher offensive upside

Like who?

You're unlikely to find a home run type C with higher offensive upside at pick 15.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Like who?

You're unlikely to find a home run type C with higher offensive upside at pick 15.

I'm guessing Fabbri. But size means more in today's NHL than it used to, so offensive upside becomes intertwined with size in some ways.

 

[Claypool]

Its not that I think Larkin will be bad or was a bad pick I just wanted the wings to go for a more home run type C with higher offensive upside

The only one available at that pick was Fabbri.

It's been clear as day that the team is shifting its playstyle to something similar to St. Louis or The New York Rangers.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Plus, I wouldn't worry about not having a Zetterberg replacement on hand. The Wings are set up to have some serious assets for sale in 2-3 years. Probably a solid NHL center, at least one talented winger, 1 or more puckmoving defensemen, and then a starting goalie. That alone won't land a #1 center, but they could be assets for a larger deal. Once the lineup is a bit younger, Holland might start dishing picks again, as well.

Plus plus, this draft could provide a tremendously talented center, of which there are more than a few to choose from.

 

[Chance on Chance]

Like who?

You're unlikely to find a home run type C with higher offensive upside at pick 15.

Meant homerun as in high risk high reward. Fabbri would have been the guy I wanted

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The only one available at that pick was Fabbri.

It's been clear as day that the team is shifting its playstyle to something similar to St. Louis or The New York Rangers.

I agree they are shifting it, but odd Fabbri wound up with the team you're saying they are mimicking.

The defense of Larkin is his potential remains a little higher than most care to admit. It seems the Wings believed that, while a lot of us pencil him as #2, he has some finish in his game and a suffocating play style. If he progresses the right way we have a fast two way forward that is relentless in pressure and cashes his chances. I personally don't think he gets all the way there, but Larkin's potential ceiling isn't really acknowledged appropriately. The guy was an absolute force on the USMNTDP, with a lot of things going for him, could be without the existence of Eichel he would have risen even higher on the board.

I don't think that is a slight as the player Eichel reminds me of the most is Mike Modano, so that is a terrific talent in terms of the reason Larkin ran the #2 line. It doesn't mean he cannot be a #1 center even in the NHL someday.

 

[detredWINgs]

I think people are blowing Larkin's perceived lack of offence out of proportion. I am confident that this organization can develop him into a top 6 center.

I don't think anyone is denying that possibility. Its just that, from all projections and commentary, he'll be a lower end top 6 center - a Mike Fisher when we need a Jason Spezza.

 

[Claypool]

I agree they are shifting it, but odd Fabbri wound up with the team you're saying they are mimicking.

St. Louis already has their pieces in place. They are a young, deep team in nearly every position. They can take a flier on a guy with a high skill ceiling. Same reason Tampa can take a shot with a player like DeAngelo. Besides, you think Detroit was going to pass on a hometown kid? He's going to Michigan, too. The Red Wings are no longer a top destination for players. They aren't the Oilers yet, but they need to draft players who are comfortable living and playing in Detroit.

I don't think anyone is denying that possibility. Its just that, from all projections and commentary, he'll be a lower end top 6 center - a Mike Fisher when we need a Jason Spezza.

You either need to finish in the bottom five or hope for a Hakan miracle. Superstar centers are rarely available at 15 or below in the draft.

 

[detredWINgs]

You either need to finish in the bottom five or hope for a Hakan miracle. Superstar centers are rarely available at 15 or below in the draft.

...Which is literally what I just posted on the previous page. No one is saying otherwise. What people are saying is that a "more offensive Helm" isn't going to get everyone excited when Detroit needs something more down the middle. Likewise, no one is looking for a superstar. But hearing that Larkin is comparable to a "more offensive Helm" creates illusions of the next Mike Fisher or David Legwand when people would rather hear he has the talent to put him in a class with the Krejcis or Stastnys.

Again - no one is denying that a "more offensive Helm" is a great asset. Its just not going to get everyone excited about Detroit's future down the middle.

 

[detredWINgs]

The only one available at that pick was Fabbri.

It's been clear as day that the team is shifting its playstyle to something similar to St. Louis or The New York Rangers.

Funny, considering how St. Louis' main target this summer was a skilled center to boost their talent down the middle. Its not hard to look around the league and see that no one has won a cup in years without a center who has skill enough to put up ~70 points.

 

[Claypool]

Funny, considering how St. Louis' main target this summer was a skilled center to boost their talent down the middle. Its not hard to look around the league and see that no one has won a cup in years without a center who has skill enough to put up ~70 points.

Teams need a lot of things to win a Cup.

 

[Run the Jewels]

To be honest, this just sucks. A 15th overall selection who you hope has more offense than Helm? Who you HOPE develops into a second line contributor? Feel sick.

“That’s (Helm) a very fair comparison,†said the Red Wings’ chief amateur scout. “That style of play with the speed and the skating … and I think there’s more offense there.â€

The Red Wings drafted Larkin, a Waterford, Mich., native, from the U.S. development program’s under-18 team with their first-round pick, 15th overall, in the 2014 draft, landing a player they feel is a sure-fire third-liner who could develop into a second-line contributor.

"and you hope there’s enough offense that maybe he’s a second-line center in time,†Finley said.

Preach it, I wanted Fabbri in that spot. We drafted a buttload of centers, the thing is none of them have the offensive firepower of Fabbri. We seem to be stuck in Holland's vortex of mediocrity, ie draft guys who are solid two way pivots who have limited offensive upside.

We are officially the Nashville Predators.