Speculation: Realistic return for Devils UFA's

Triumph

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Oct 2, 2007
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Good thing that the FA market isnt the only way to acquire those players, right? There are also 3 with the pedigree currently. Landeskog, Hoffman and Tatar. RNH has also hovered around those numbers, but as both a C and LW. They are available literally every single year.

Landeskog is very unlikely to make it to UFA. Hoffman and Tatar, sure. RNH, if he makes it to UFA, will almost certainly go somewhere where he is expected to play center, and he won't get to be on a power play with McDavid and Draisaitl. It of course needs no pointing out that RNH has scored 114 goals in the 376 games he's played for the Oilers since 2015-16 while Palmieri has scored 136 in 387 for the Devils and hasn't had a PP with Draisaitl and McDavid on which to do it. Palms obviously has more PP goals but that's because he's been the guy the Devils have looked to set up on the power play - Nugent-Hopkins would never be that option for anybody.

Bringing back the same players that aren't really that good and then expecting the team to get good is the definition of trying to miracle your way into it. The offense isn't good with Kyle Palmieri playing a first line role. The team is a bottom 5 team with Kyle Palmieri playing a 1st line role. Look at the first lines of perennial contenders around the league and tell me that Kyle Palmieri belongs in that discussion. Im not dishing out contract and length of a 1st line winger to a guy that clearly does not matter that much to wins and losses. I'd rather wait and keep the money and the spot open and see if I can swing a deal or if one of our first round picks can take the spot.

You keep constructing strawmen like the idea that I said Palmieri deserves 1st line winger money or term.

Palmieri did belong in that discussion before this season, he could easily have been a 1st line winger on basically any team - there'd obviously be several teams where he wouldn't be because of who's already there, but right-shot RWs who score nearly 30 goals/82 games are difficult to find. Any winger who scores nearly 30 goals/82 games are difficult to find. The Devils have really only managed to find 1 over the last 10 years.
 

Guttersniped

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They are playing Subban 20+ minutes per night in all situations

we may not like the guy, but they aren't going to expose him.
They might expose him, it depends on how they feel about paying him 8m next year. They might think Seattle won’t take that contract. Who knows but it will really be about money more than anything else, they might feel like the continuing cap Armageddon will make it easier to use that money to replace Subban with someone cheaper and/or better.
 
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Derps

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Landeskog is very unlikely to make it to UFA. Hoffman and Tatar, sure. RNH, if he makes it to UFA, will almost certainly go somewhere where he is expected to play center, and he won't get to be on a power play with McDavid and Draisaitl. It of course needs no pointing out that RNH has scored 114 goals in the 376 games he's played for the Oilers since 2015-16 while Palmieri has scored 136 in 387 for the Devils and hasn't had a PP with Draisaitl and McDavid on which to do it. Palms obviously has more PP goals but that's because he's been the guy the Devils have looked to set up on the power play - Nugent-Hopkins would never be that option for anybody.



You keep constructing strawmen like the idea that I said Palmieri deserves 1st line winger money or term.

Palmieri did belong in that discussion before this season, he could easily have been a 1st line winger on basically any team - there'd obviously be several teams where he wouldn't be because of who's already there, but right-shot RWs who score nearly 30 goals/82 games are difficult to find. Any winger who scores nearly 30 goals/82 games are difficult to find. The Devils have really only managed to find 1 over the last 10 years.

I gave a list of players that are currently unsigned next year that are equal or better in my eyes than Palmieri. Every single year there are players exactly like Palmieri available in FA. He's not that special. That doesn't include players that are on the block, players similar to Palmieri, that are acquirable.

I am not creating a strawman argument because I have seen on numerous occasions posters tossing around 4-5 years and 5+ million dollars on here and on other platforms. I consider that absolutely insane to the point where I dont even think it merits discussion. This is not just about you -- this is a general discussion about Palmieri. We're talking about what he's worth and what he's not. As for this /82 that you keep throwing out: It's truly irrelevant to me in Palmieri's case. Whether he plays 65 games or 80 games, he always seems to end the season with the same amount of goals. If he scored at the same rate while his games played increased, I'd entertain the discussion, but it doesnt look like he does. I am not interested in magical goals that don't exist in the 20 games that get him to 82. He contributes roughly 25 goals a year to a team. It's fine. That'd be great on Boston as a 2nd line winger. It'd be fine on a second line here. But the timeline doesn't work.

I've said numerous times now that if you want to bring him back on some type of 1 year deal as some sort of placeholder, we aren't in disagreement. It would make my head hurt watching him tip pucks wide in front of a wide open net, but Ive lasted 8 years watching dismal offense, maybe I can make it another. Hopefully as the year goes on he gets phased out by younger players making the step up. But pretending like Palmieri and his 45-50 points a year aren't replaceable is just ridiculous in my opinion. That's assuming he ever returns to that type of production which isn't even a guarantee. This fan base legitimately has no idea what 1st line players on playoff teams look like. And that's really all Im interested in to be honest. Not "oh he can play 1st line on a horrific team and put up decent stats." This is just not a player I look at and think "ah shit I gotta make sure I have a replacement before I let him go." We disagree, clearly. And that's cool.
 
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Derps

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They might expose him, it depends on how they feel about paying him 8m next year. They might think Seattle won’t take that contract. Who knows but it will really be about money more than anything else, they might feel like the continuing cap Armageddon will make it easier to use that money to replace Subban with someone cheaper and/or better.

dougie-hamilton-2018-43.jpg
 
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ChicksDigTheTrap

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Good thing that the FA market isnt the only way to acquire those players, right? There are also 3 with the pedigree currently. Landeskog, Hoffman and Tatar. RNH has also hovered around those numbers, but as both a C and LW. They are available literally every single year.

Bringing back the same players that aren't really that good and then expecting the team to get good is the definition of trying to miracle your way into it. The offense isn't good with Kyle Palmieri playing a first line role. The team is a bottom 5 team with Kyle Palmieri playing a 1st line role. Look at the first lines of perennial contenders around the league and tell me that Kyle Palmieri belongs in that discussion. Im not dishing out contract and length of a 1st line winger to a guy that clearly does not matter that much to wins and losses. I'd rather wait and keep the money and the spot open and see if I can swing a deal or if one of our first round picks can take the spot.

Like I said, if he wants to take a 1 year deal, I ain't gonna lose my mind. But if this team offers him a long term deal, it's clear that they've learned absolutely nothing.
They are not giving him a long term deal. If they had interest in signing him to a long term deal they would be negotiating with him. They admitted they would have traded him last year at the deadline if they were given the right package and if LeBruns tweet is accurate the Devils do not even know what he wants contract wise.
 

Billdo

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Oct 28, 2008
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Who are these top tier free agents? Names are never mentioned. Just that there is this untapped pool of 30 goal scorers waiting for contracts.

You are lucky to get one really good player go to market in an offseason. Everyone else are generally spare parts.
None of them ever come here anyway. We never get the top tier free agents and tbh, a lot of them rarely even work out as far as production vs contract.
 

tailfins

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Let's let 30 year old Palmieri walk so we can pay 31 year old Hoffman as much or more to do what Palmieri does...:huh:

generally, I agree with you.

but, in this case, I thought the idea was to trade Palms at the deadline.

In that case, it’s “let’s get Hoffman plus assets for hopefully similar cost to Palmieri”
 

Derps

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Jul 1, 2018
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Let's let 30 year old Palmieri walk so we can pay 31 year old Hoffman as much or more to do what Palmieri does...:huh:

yeah Mike Hoffman is actually just a way better player but we can pretend they do the same thing if you want.

Wouldn’t give either a long term deal though
 

My3Sons

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I don't think that the NJ fanbase that posts here is clamoring to rid themselves of Palms. I think it's more a reaction to the traditional deal given to the guy who makes it to UFA while still decently productive. Most of the time it seems like it is too much term and too much cap. Then layer in the fact that the team has been bad with Palms and there are always going to be some who suggest they can be bad without Palms, or that even if he isn't part of the problem he isn't part of the solution either. I don't see NJ easily finding a better winger for the next couple of years. The hope seems to be Holtz or one of the other prospects can develop into a winger for Hughes. Maybe they can. I'd be open to a 3 year or shorter deal with Palms at a reasonable rate. Maybe 5 mil per? NJ's cap won't be crunched for that time frame and I doubt any prospect is ready to move up to play with Hughes next year and probably even the year after. I understand the idea of trying other players since Palms hasn't quite clicked with Hughes as well. If NJ has to go with a stopgap Palms still makes sense. I expect an underwhelming return at the TDL. I'm not sure if getting a low second for Palms is worth it, at least not without first exploring whether he'd be open to a shorter more reasonable extension. I'd rather not have to overpay someone else to do what Palms does just to hold down a place filler role for two years if they don't have to.
 
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My3Sons

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They can have some of our junk


I don't see how they have room to add anything without equal cap going back and other than Kerfoot they don't really have a readily available cap dump to send out. If they expect to get value for Kerfoot as opposed to a cap dump that's going to be tricky. I don't see a team looking to send good assets to TOR to get Kerfoot.
 

Smitty426

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I don't think that the NJ fanbase that posts here is clamoring to rid themselves of Palms. I think it's more a reaction to the traditional deal given to the guy who makes it to UFA while still decently productive. Most of the time it seems like it is too much term and too much cap. Then layer in the fact that the team has been bad with Palms and there are always going to be some who suggest they can be bad without Palms, or that even if he isn't part of the problem he isn't part of the solution either. I don't see NJ easily finding a better winger for the next couple of years. The hope seems to be Holtz or one of the other prospects can develop into a winger for Hughes. Maybe they can. I'd be open to a 3 year or shorter deal with Palms at a reasonable rate. Maybe 5 mil per? NJ's cap won't be crunched for that time frame and I doubt any prospect is ready to move up to play with Hughes next year and probably even the year after. I understand the idea of trying other players since Palms hasn't quite clicked with Hughes as well. If NJ has to go with a stopgap Palms still makes sense. I expect an underwhelming return at the TDL. I'm not sure if getting a low second for Palms is worth it, at least not without first exploring whether he'd be open to a shorter more reasonable extension. I'd rather not have to overpay someone else to do what Palms does just to hold down a place filler role for two years if they don't have to.
I see Palms as a rental to Bos/NYI/Pitt. With a huge potential to come back and mentor this young team. At 50% off for him and Zajac/Goose and any other UFA. I know its an outlier but he is playing slightly better than Hall and the returns for Hall are stupid. Palms woudl cost half TH
 
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My3Sons

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I see Palms as a rental to Bos/NYI/Pitt. With a huge potential to come back and mentor this young team. At 50% off for him and Zajac/Goose and any other UFA. I know its an outlier but he is playing slightly better than Hall and the returns for Hall are stupid. Palms woudl cost half TH

If the offer is a second and a meh prospect I'd only go that route if he isn't open to a two or three year deal at a reasonable hit. At this point, pick 57-62 and another Merkley is less important than the big club having competent players in my view. Palms isn't what we want him to be but he's a legit NHL player who brings an element the team needs and he can be at least a top six placeholder for a couple of years while we wait for Mercer, Holtz, Clarke, Thompson, Foote, etc.
 
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NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
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I don't think that the NJ fanbase that posts here is clamoring to rid themselves of Palms. I think it's more a reaction to the traditional deal given to the guy who makes it to UFA while still decently productive. Most of the time it seems like it is too much term and too much cap. Then layer in the fact that the team has been bad with Palms and there are always going to be some who suggest they can be bad without Palms, or that even if he isn't part of the problem he isn't part of the solution either. I don't see NJ easily finding a better winger for the next couple of years. The hope seems to be Holtz or one of the other prospects can develop into a winger for Hughes. Maybe they can. I'd be open to a 3 year or shorter deal with Palms at a reasonable rate. Maybe 5 mil per? NJ's cap won't be crunched for that time frame and I doubt any prospect is ready to move up to play with Hughes next year and probably even the year after. I understand the idea of trying other players since Palms hasn't quite clicked with Hughes as well. If NJ has to go with a stopgap Palms still makes sense. I expect an underwhelming return at the TDL. I'm not sure if getting a low second for Palms is worth it, at least not without first exploring whether he'd be open to a shorter more reasonable extension. I'd rather not have to overpay someone else to do what Palms does just to hold down a place filler role for two years if they don't have to.

I’m more of the realization that the team doesn’t want him back anyway than actually wanting him gone myself. They haven’t even negotiated half a minute with him apparently. With the team hopelessly out of it again, what else can we do but sell him to the highest bidder if management has zero interest in retaining Palms?
 

SteveCangialosi123

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Feb 17, 2012
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I don't see how they have room to add anything without equal cap going back and other than Kerfoot they don't really have a readily available cap dump to send out. If they expect to get value for Kerfoot as opposed to a cap dump that's going to be tricky. I don't see a team looking to send good assets to TOR to get Kerfoot.
Vatanen is nice and cheap if we retain
 
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KovalchukFistPump

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I don't see how they have room to add anything without equal cap going back and other than Kerfoot they don't really have a readily available cap dump to send out. If they expect to get value for Kerfoot as opposed to a cap dump that's going to be tricky. I don't see a team looking to send good assets to TOR to get Kerfoot.
It would be pretty hilarious if we traded for Kerfoot as part of a larger trade where we trade bigger contracts to TOR, and then waived Butcher.

Obviously no real Center spot for him to play here, which is why he didn't sign with us
 
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My3Sons

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It would be pretty hilarious if we traded for Kerfoot as part of a larger trade where we trade bigger contracts to TOR, and then waived Butcher.

Obviously no real Center spot for him to play here, which is why he didn't sign with us

I guess if TOR makes a good enough offer for Palms you can take back Kerfoot to play a wing spot for a year if that equalizes the salary.
 
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