Speculation: Realistic return for Devils UFA's

[KovalchukFistPump]

If Sharangovich and Kuokkanen keep playing well, it's probably better you keep them protected in the expansion draft. Any prospect we get in a trade has to be in their 2nd pro year max, otherwise we have to protect them too. Right now we are looking at losing someone like McLeod, Bastian, or Merkley (unless Seattle takes a really good liking to Subban who, if he ends the year around 0.5 PPG you almost have to try to get a return for him at the deadline next year instead of losing him for nothing).

 

[Emperoreddy]

It's going to be Butcher. They aren't going to protect him

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

It's going to be Butcher. They aren't going to protect him

Butcher is definitely not being protected, but I'm not sure Seattle takes him either. I bet Johnsson gets exposed too.

 

[Billdo]

Palmieri (50% retained) - 2nd round pick + Prospect
Zajac (50% retained) - 3rd round pick
Murray (50% retained) - 3rd round pick or D prospect
Kulikov - 3rd round pick or D prospect
Gusev (50% retained) - 4th round pick, but it depends if Zajac waives NTC. Otherwise, i think their will be very little interest.
Vatanen - 4th round pick or D prospect
Wedgewood - 5th round pick or G prospect
Dell - 5th round pick or G prospect.

I think Fitzy's preference might be to request prospects in return rather than mid round picks.

Maybe he can find another Kuokkanen type of prospect this trade deadline. A prospect that has had 2 or more years of development and is ready for an NHL shot.

I'd rather sign Kulikov, Zajac isn't going anywhere and if he was the return would be more than that

 

[Guttersniped]

Palmieri (50% retained) - 2nd round pick + Prospect
Zajac (50% retained) - 3rd round pick
Murray (50% retained) - 3rd round pick or D prospect
Kulikov - 3rd round pick or D prospect
Gusev (50% retained) - 4th round pick, but it depends if Zajac waives NTC. Otherwise, i think their will be very little interest.
Vatanen - 4th round pick or D prospect
Wedgewood - 5th round pick or G prospect
Dell - 5th round pick or G prospect.

I think Fitzy's preference might be to request prospects in return rather than mid round picks.

Maybe he can find another Kuokkanen type of prospect this trade deadline. A prospect that has had 2 or more years of development and is ready for an NHL shot.

We can’t trade Dell unless 1) Toronto doesn’t want him sent back onto their taxi squad and if they don’t 2) any other team that also put in a claim for him when he was originally put on waivers but was beat out by us now can take him and put him on their roster if they still want him.

I doubt we’re trading Wedgewood either, he’s doing well enough to earn to the back-up spot so we should keep him for that job if he’s the only one who can do it well. We’re not actively tanking and shipping out every UFA that can bring a sliver of a return, the trades have to at least sort of be worthwhile. For instance, I don’t know if we should trade all three defensemen if they all bring back so little. I know the Simmonds trade was that, 50% retained and a crap return, but I don’t think that’s Fitz’s overall trading philosophy (or at least I hope not).

 

[glenwo2]

Butcher is definitely not being protected, but I'm not sure Seattle takes him either. I bet Johnsson gets exposed too.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I find your mindset comical that we can’t say anything wrong about our favorite players but you’re crapping on Johnsson for the past week+.

Talk about double standard lol

 

[Captain3rdLine]

It's going to be Butcher. They aren't going to protect him

Who are they going to protect instead of him, Colton white? Unless they resign someone else and protect Subban, butcher is going to be protected.

 

[blink]

I never said it would happen but I’d do it in a heartbeat if we could. Nico is good, not great and he’s probably the 4th best player of his draft class.

Patrick Laine would definitely make our team better then Hischier but I’m not expecting anyone on a Devils board to agree with me, so that’s cool.

Good teams are strong down the middle. What you are proposing is trading a possible future Selke trophy winner as our #2 centre in Nico for an erratic sniper in Laine. Most snipers are streaky. It's also "easier" to find good wingers than it is good centres.

This team needs wingers desperately but this isn't a deal I would do.

 

[blink]

i mentioned top tier free agents won't come here unless they are severely overpaid. why would a top tier free agent sign here minus massive over-payment? i'm fully aware that middleish to bottom players will but that's not what this team needs. they have enough of that as is.

So, we open up the vault and sign a top tier free agent. I'd rather have a top tier free agent making 8 mil a year and producing while making Hughes/Nico a better player in the long term over Palmieri making almost 5 mil a year and not. At some point here, Fitz and his group have to make a splash here to show that the organization is committed to winning again.

It's not like our roster is littered with bad contracts. In fact, that's the one thing management has actually done right over the last few years. Aside from Subban, we don't have a bad contract and thank god Subban isn't signed for 4-5 years after this one.

The rhetoric here is that Palmieri is our best sniper when he's not really a sniper at all. He's the best we have which really isn't saying a whole lot. On a contending team, he's a top 6-9 forward.

Palmieri reminds me of the girlfriend you keep going back to only because you don't know what the future holds. You're familiar with her and you want her back because you're afraid she can't be replaced. Even if it's not the best fit for you.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

Who are they going to protect instead of him, Colton white? Unless they resign someone else and protect Subban, butcher is going to be protected.

I'm expecting prior to the expansion draft that Fitzgerald will make a D trade or two.

Their are teams that have good or promising defenseman that they can't protect. Jake Bean from Carolina is an example. Fitzy can make a trade for Bean and then use a slot to protect him and expose Butcher. I can see a 2nd trade also be done to purposely expose Subban. Seattle is not going to take him, so it makes sense for Devils to expose him, if they can acquire a good D to protect.

 

[blink]

I find your mindset comical that we can’t say anything wrong about our favorite players but you’re crapping on Johnsson for the past week+.

Talk about double standard lol

To be fair, I think every Devils player has been crapped on here over the past few weeks. Even Kuokkanen before his scoring surge.

 

[Triumph]

So, we open up the vault and sign a top tier free agent. I'd rather have a top tier free agent making 8 mil a year and producing while making Hughes/Nico a better player in the long term over Palmieri making almost 5 mil a year and not. At some point here, Fitz and his group have to make a splash here to show that the organization is committed to winning again.

It's not like our roster is littered with bad contracts. In fact, that's the one thing management has actually done right over the last few years. Aside from Subban, we don't have a bad contract and thank god Subban isn't signed for 4-5 years after this one.

The rhetoric here is that Palmieri is our best sniper when he's not really a sniper at all. He's the best we have which really isn't saying a whole lot. On a contending team, he's a top 6-9 forward.

Palmieri reminds me of the girlfriend you keep going back to only because you don't know what the future holds. You're familiar with her and you want her back because you're afraid she can't be replaced. Even if it's not the best fit for you.

Palmieri has averaged 29 goals per 82 games as a Devil, on some mostly heinous teams. He may not be that player anymore, and the Devils should not commit to him long-term here, but there's absolutely a place for him if he A: starts scoring again, even a little and B: if he's amenable to a short-term deal.

People have this idea that you somehow get better by giving up decent players, but that is not how you get better. The Devils don't have anything in the organization that can plausibly replace Palmieri's scoring and role next season. They shouldn't be active in the free agent or trade markets to get it, either.

 

[glenwo2]

I find your mindset comical that we can’t say anything wrong about our favorite players but you’re crapping on Johnsson for the past week+.

Talk about double standard lol

And I find your continued use of Taylor Hall as your username to be even more comical (as well as your continued non-response to my previous question about it).

I just can't picture myself changing my username to Jesper's Last Step then keeping that username if he ever left the team to go play on another.

Talk about obsession on your part lol

(Gee..I wonder *who* you will be rooting for when the Devils play Buffalo? )

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

And I find your continued use of Taylor Hall as your username to be even more comical.

I can't picture myself changing my username to Jesper's Last Step then keeping that username if he ever left the team to go play on another.

Talk about obsession lol

I love how you dodge simple questions. If all you can come up with is asking me why my username is still the same, instead of coming up with a reasoning to justify why it’s not ok to crap on Bratt but it’s more then fair to do so on Johnsson, that’s pretty lame.

WTF is a Glenwo2 anyways?

 

[blink]

Palmieri has averaged 29 goals per 82 games as a Devil, on some mostly heinous teams. He may not be that player anymore, and the Devils should not commit to him long-term here, but there's absolutely a place for him if he A: starts scoring again, even a little and B: if he's amenable to a short-term deal.

People have this idea that you somehow get better by giving up decent players, but that is not how you get better. The Devils don't have anything in the organization that can plausibly replace Palmieri's scoring and role next season. They shouldn't be active in the free agent or trade markets to get it, either.

Opportunity. I said it before, Palmieri was not a 29 goal scorer before he arrived here. He grew into that role. The same opportunity could be afforded other players to see what they could do in his role with his minutes.

I'm open to keeping him around for a 3 yrs x 4 mil. Anything past that, I think you have to walk and move him at the deadline.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Who are they going to protect instead of him, Colton white? Unless they resign someone else and protect Subban, butcher is going to be protected.

They resign one of Murray or Kulikov and then they have to protect them.

Resign them both and both Subban and Butcher get exposed.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

They are playing Subban 20+ minutes per night in all situations

we may not like the guy, but they aren't going to expose him.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Who are these top tier free agents? Names are never mentioned. Just that there is this untapped pool of 30 goal scorers waiting for contracts.

You are lucky to get one really good player go to market in an offseason. Everyone else are generally spare parts.

 

[Emperoreddy]

They are playing Subban 20+ minutes per night in all situations

we may not like the guy, but they aren't going to expose him.

Almost certainly. The most likely situation is they extend one of Kulikov or Murray and protect Severson, Subban, and that guy.

 

[Triumph]

Opportunity. I said it before, Palmieri was not a 29 goal scorer before he arrived here. He grew into that role. The same opportunity could be afforded other players to see what they could do in his role with his minutes.

I'm open to keeping him around for a 3 yrs x 4 mil. Anything past that, I think you have to walk and move him at the deadline.

He wasn't a 29 goal scorer before he got here because the Ducks buried him behind 2 other RWs. As a member of the Ducks, he scored at an even better goals/60 rate at 5v5, they just didn't give him enough ice time for his counting stats to reflect that, and he certainly didn't get PP1 time.

Who do you think in this organization is capable of scoring 30 goals/82 in the Palmieri role (so PP1 triggerman/1st line RW?). I'd say nobody, at least not next season. So let's move away from that - who in free agency is capable of that? Mike Hoffman, maybe, but he is the same age as Palmieri. Other than that, it is slim pickings.

There's a category of Devils fans who are weirdly unappreciative of Palmieri because the Devils got him so cheap or because he didn't put up impressive counting stats in Anaheim. It's really hard to find players as good as Palmieri was for the 5 seasons before this. That guy might be gone forever.

Obviously in a normal year, the Devils would take the 1st round pick for trading him and then see him off to a new 5 year deal elsewhere, but with teams likely not trading 1st round picks this deadline and 5 year deals not likely in his future, there's the possibility of keeping him.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

The Devils could also trade a pick for a defenseman that they can then protect. They used this strategy to get Mirco Mueller before the last expansion draft (hold your laughter, please)

 

[Derps]

Who are these top tier free agents? Names are never mentioned. Just that there is this untapped pool of 30 goal scorers waiting for contracts.

You are lucky to get one really good player go to market in an offseason. Everyone else are generally spare parts.

RNH, Hyman, Tatar, Hoffman, and Landeskog are all players that can play wing I would 100% rather have than Palmieri.

Palmieri has scored 30 goals one time and that was 5 years ago. The whole "hes a 30 goal scorer" thing is so worn out. Whether he plays 80 games or 65 games, he always seems to end up with ~25 goals and there were 80 players in 2018-2019 that did that. We need to seriously stop acting like what Kyle Palmieri does in this league is rare. He's fine. He's not bad. But he's not special. The standards around here are so low.

If people want to bring him back for a year on a 2nd/3rd line type contract, it probably won't be the end of the world. But the people that wanna toss out 4x5 are just flat out stupid people. He's not good enough to lose the cap/roster flexbility. And he doesn't mesh with Hughes clearly.

But yeah sure, lets keep bringing back the same people at the top of the lineup of our bottom 5 team. That should definitely change things. Palmieri is going to be 33 by the time this team is good and I have to say Im not liking Palmieri's outlook at 33.

Im legitimately exhausted listening daily to how good all of our players are and watching the product on the ice tell a totally different story. It's hockey gaslighting.

 

[Triumph]

Palmieri has scored 30 goals one time and that was 5 years ago. The whole "hes a 30 goal scorer" thing is so worn out. Whether he plays 80 games or 65 games, he always seems to end up with ~25 goals and there were 80 players in 2018-2019 that did that. We need to seriously stop acting like what Kyle Palmieri does in this league is rare. The standards around here are so low.

This is fatuous because if it is so easy to obtain such a player, they should be readily available on the free agent market every year. I see one comparable player in Mike Hoffman, that's about it. Brandon Saad scores at a comparable goal rate over the last 3 years but he is traditionally bad on the PP - he has 19 career power play goals. And he's a left shot, left wing.

If people want to bring him back for a year on a 2nd/3rd line type contract, it probably won't be the end of the world. But the people that wanna toss out 4x5 are just flat out stupid people. He's not good enough to lose the cap/roster flexbility. And he doesn't mesh with Hughes clearly.

But yeah sure, lets keep bringing back the same people at the top of the lineup of our bottom 5 team. That should definitely change things. Palmieri is going to be 33 by the time this team is good and I have to say Im not liking Palmieri's outlook at 33.

The problem is that the team cannot just miracle itself into 'being good', it has to have good players to do so. So if you are bringing Palmieri back to play a '2nd/3rd line' role, who is playing the 1st line role?

 

[Derps]

This is fatuous because if it is so easy to obtain such a player, they should be readily available on the free agent market every year. I see one comparable player in Mike Hoffman, that's about it. Brandon Saad scores at a comparable goal rate over the last 3 years but he is traditionally bad on the PP - he has 19 career power play goals. And he's a left shot, left wing.



The problem is that the team cannot just miracle itself into 'being good', it has to have good players to do so. So if you are bringing Palmieri back to play a '2nd/3rd line' role, who is playing the 1st line role?

Good thing that the FA market isnt the only way to acquire those players, right? There are also 3 with the pedigree currently. Landeskog, Hoffman and Tatar. RNH has also hovered around those numbers, but as both a C and LW. They are available literally every single year.

Bringing back the same players that aren't really that good and then expecting the team to get good is the definition of trying to miracle your way into it. The offense isn't good with Kyle Palmieri playing a first line role. The team is a bottom 5 team with Kyle Palmieri playing a 1st line role. Look at the first lines of perennial contenders around the league and tell me that Kyle Palmieri belongs in that discussion. Im not dishing out contract and length of a 1st line winger to a guy that clearly does not matter that much to wins and losses. I'd rather wait and keep the money and the spot open and see if I can swing a deal or if one of our first round picks can take the spot.

Like I said, if he wants to take a 1 year deal, I ain't gonna lose my mind. But if this team offers him a long term deal, it's clear that they've learned absolutely nothing.