Rantanen Vs Marner

[member 262271]

Oh there's avs fans who'd like to see Mikko drive his own line as well, because he's had to limit his game next to the demon MacK has become by spending less time on the puck and taking less shots. But we just don't have that kind of depth right now. If Chia wants to hook us up with Draisaitl & Jost keeps coming on the way he has been in 2018, then I'd certainly be down to see how things would look if Jost joined MacKinnon & Landeskog with Mikko & Leon teaming up to drive our second scoring line.

But at the moment our second line is Nieto - Soderberg - Comeau, and they play a shutdown role that lets us have an offensive third line with some mix of the college kids & Andrighetto. So, for now, we have to ride that top line as far as they will take us.

Good points, doing anything other than riding that line would be silly. Honorable mention to Blake Comeau who always scores on the Leafs for some reason, grumble....

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I meant your bias. That was a good attempt to get on topic though i'll give you that. I think those that pick Rantanen have good grounds to do so. I also believe it's closer than people think here - the main thought I have and have mentioned is can Rantanen drive a line like Marner can.

The only discussion here should be on Marner and Rantanen. The fact is no one can claim bias for picking Rantanen in this poll at this moment. So I am not sure why you would even go there, when you yourself just said people picking Rantanen have good grounds to do so.

 

[member 262271]

The only discussion here should be on Marner and Rantanen. The fact is no one can claim bias for picking Rantanen in this poll at this moment. So I am not sure why you would even go there, when you yourself just said people picking Rantanen have good grounds to do so.

Clearly you aren't understanding me. Plus you ignored my point about Marner, am I surprised? Not even remotely. Now, since we're off topic again, let's return. I stated why someone should pick Marner, feel free to address it, I won't hold my breath.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Clearly you aren't understanding me. Plus you ignored my point about Marner, am I surprised? Not even remotely. Now, since we're off topic again, let's return. I stated why someone should pick Marner, feel free to address it, I won't hold my breath.

Marner can drive a line over a proven 80+ point winger(unless he falls off the cliff, not happening) with size and 2 way play that is also driving a line. Ok, address that.

 

[cgf]

Good points, doing anything other than riding that line would be silly. Honorable mention to Blake Comeau who always scores on the Leafs for some reason, grumble....

Comeau is good for that. I remember some game against the Sharks that Varly was in the middle of stealing when Blake scored and a sharks fans just lost it that his team "let some dude named Lake f***in Como score on them"

That line has actually been incredible for us this year, but anything more than sporadically chipping in is asking a lot from Soda with those wingers & that usage.

I meant your bias. That was a good attempt to get on topic though i'll give you that. I think those that pick Rantanen have good grounds to do so. I also believe it's closer than people think here - the main thought I have and have mentioned is can Rantanen drive a line like Marner can.

But by this token doesn't Marner still have to prove he can synergize with another great player the way MacK n Mikko do? There's been some great players who just couldn't ever form that dominant duo with anyone because they did better with the puck on their stick & less talented players who'd focus more on winning the puck for them, getting the puck to them, and then moving around off the puck for them to utilize.

Matt Duchene before his knee injuries clearly had more dangerous tools/skills than Rantanen (or Marner for that matter), and though he did well next to Landeskog & MacKinnon when the 9's line was together, he never did this well and never helped elevate MacK's game the way Mikko has since they got stuck together during that disastrous 2016-17 campaign.

Personally, I have no doubt that Marner would thrive next to someone like MacK...which is why he was one of the players I would've been happy with trading Barrie for before this season changed my mind on trading Barrie & how much we can really afford another developmental season while waiting for prospects to arrive...but I also don't have any doubts that Mikko could thrive while driving his own line. So I don't think any of this really applies to either player.

Wheeler doesn't need Schef to be great, but it certainly helps, ya know?

 

[member 262271]

Marner can drive a line over a proven 80+ point winger(unless he falls off the cliff, not happening) with size and 2 way play that is also driving a line. Ok, address that.

Gladly, does Marner have a MacKinnon or Landeskog to play with? No? Okay. It's amazing how how obsessed with points you are. I personally value making the players around you better quite highly.

 

[Matt24]

This is difficult. Yes, Rantanen's point totals are likely being inflated because of MacKinnon playing out of his mind, but I've never liked that excuse. You get the points, you get the points. Meanwhile, it is clear Marner drives Toronto's top PP unit, which is working at an incredible efficiency rate, especially of late. I don't have much doubt he's another year or two away from being a consistent 75+ point player, but Rantanen's that this year. I'll say Rantanen for now, but I'd like to see how he'd fair driving his own line.

 

[member 262271]

Comeau is good for that. I remember some game against the Sharks that Varly was in the middle of stealing when Blake scored and a sharks fans just lost it that his team "let some dude named Lake f***in Como score on them"

That line has actually been incredible for us this year, but anything more than sporadically chipping in is asking a lot from Soda with those wingers & that usage.


But by this token doesn't Marner still have to prove he can synergize with another great player the way MacK n Mikko do? There's been some great players who just couldn't ever form that dominant duo with anyone because they did better with the puck on their stick & less talented players who'd focus more on winning the puck for them, getting the puck to them, and then moving around off the puck for them to utilize.

Matt Duchene before his knee injuries clearly had more dangerous tools/skills than Rantanen (or Marner for that matter), and though he did well next to Landeskog & MacKinnon when the 9's line was together, he never did this well and never helped elevate MacK's game the way Mikko has since they got stuck together during that disastrous 2016-17 campaign.

Personally, I have no doubt that Marner would thrive next to someone like MacK...which is why he was one of the players I would've been happy with trading Barrie for before this season changed my mind on trading Barrie & how much we can really afford another developmental season while waiting for prospects to arrive...but I also don't have any doubts that Mikko could thrive while driving his own line. So I don't think any of this really applies to either player.

Wheeler doesn't need Schef to be great, but it certainly helps, ya know?

I think Marner is the type of special player that can synergize with another great player. This year and last year I can't count how many easy tap ins he set up, and only maybe half of them were converted. I think this is turning into a much more challenging discussion than I'd previously thought. That'll happen though in this type of situation - how was Mikko last year? Also, I'll never forget that Comeau hatty against the leafs.. *shudder*

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Gladly, does Marner have a MacKinnon or Landeskog to play with? No? Okay. It's amazing how how obsessed with points you are.

I saw that predictable reply a mile away. Are you saying the only reason Rantanen is having a 77 point year due to Mackinnon? Mackinnon had 53 points last year, you don't think Rantanen is not a factor for his 24 point improvement in 18 less games? Also Rantanen is outscoring Landeskog by 21 points. Get a better argument than Marner can drive a line, inferring Rantanen cannot, or the linemates marginalization argument. Really trying to marginalize one player to raise another is not the best recipe to winning a discussion.

 

[member 262271]

I saw that predictable reply a mile away. Are you saying the only reason Rantanen is having a 77 point year due to Mackinnon? Mackinnon had 53 points last year, you don't think Rantanen is not a factor for his 24 point improvement in 18 less games? Also Rantanen is outscoring Landeskog by 21 points. Get a better argument than Marner can drive a line, inferring Rantanen cannot, or the linemates marginalization argument. Really trying to marginalize one player to raise another is not the best recipe to winning a discussion.

Who's trying to win this dicussion, you or I? I make a point about why I would pick Marner which you only address when I ask you to. I also point out that you focus too much on points, also ignored. You have your opinion and I have mine, it's unfortunate one of the comparable players is a Leaf though, ya know?

PS: I adore how I make an argument, and you reply to it like a sensationalist news outlet. ARE YOU SAYING THIS, ARE YOU SAYING THAT!? I legit laughed at that.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Who's trying to win this dicussion, you or I? I make a point about why I would pick Marner which you only address when I ask you to. I also point out that you focus too much on points, also ignored. You have your opinion and I have mine, it's unfortunate one of the comparable players is a Leaf though, ya know?

So far you have presented 2 arguments. Maybe if Marner had better linemates. Maybe if Marner was a better driver than Rantanen. You know what they say about maybe, what ifs, and buts.

And maybe if I was the President of the United States.

 

[cgf]

I think Marner is the type of special player that can synergize with another great player. This year and last year I can't count how many easy tap ins he set up, and only maybe half of them were converted. I think this is turning into a much more challenging discussion than I'd previously thought. That'll happen though in this type of situation - how was Mikko last year? Also, I'll never forget that Comeau hatty against the leafs.. *shudder*

lol yeah, that will happen. Can't say I'm too upset with the league having this much fun young talent coming up tho.

Last season Mikko led the avs in goals, and held onto the puck to create for longer than he is this year...outside of the PP, where he & Barrie QB it together...his creativity led "Mikko will be our franchise player & MacKinnon his robin" to become a popular hot-take amongst a subsect of the fanbase.

And I'm with you on Marner, I definitely think that he can be a magician both as The Guy on his line, or with a partner in crime.

 

[member 262271]

So far you have presented 2 arguments. Maybe if Marner had better linemates. Maybe if Marner was a better driver than Rantanen. You know what they say about maybe, what ifs, and buts.

And maybe if I was the President of the United States.

No maybes about it, if Marner played with a MacKinnon and Landeskog type he would have more points, I am not even remotely unsure of that. Also, I never said maybe Marner was a better line driver, I said he is. He's made the best out of playing with guys like JVR and Bozak. Sorry to mention more Leafs bud. You're pretty good at putting words in people's mouths also, kudos.

 

[bionic]

Who's trying to win this dicussion, you or I? I make a point about why I would pick Marner which you only address when I ask you to. I also point out that you focus too much on points, also ignored. You have your opinion and I have mine, it's unfortunate one of the comparable players is a Leaf though, ya know?

PS: I adore how I make an argument, and you reply to it like a sensationalist news outlet. ARE YOU SAYING THIS, ARE YOU SAYING THAT!? I legit laughed at that.

People who only focus on points when trying to compare players are just taking the lazy way out. Like I said before Rantaen on the leafs would not have the same total points he has now. With the way Babcock coaches and the way he limits minutes and spreading out the offense through out the lineup.

 

[member 262271]

People who only focus on points when trying to compare players are just taking the lazy way out. Like I said before Rantaen on the leafs would not have the same total points he has now. With the way Babcock coaches and the way he limits minutes and spreading out the offense through out the lineup.

I mean, points are exciting no question about it. As you said though, there's much more to consider. You're spot on about Babcock's system/usage.

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

It's funny reading Leafs fans trying to spin this one in Marner's favour. A lot of mental gymnastics going on.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

think pretty safe to say that Rantanen wins this.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Is there even one logical reason to pick Marner over Rantanen? Skill? No. Size? No. Defensive play? No. Hockey IQ? No. Age? No.

What then?

Mitch Marner’s vision and hockey IQ is mouth dropping at times....put some respect on his name

 

[The List Of Jericho]

It's funny reading Leafs fans trying to spin this one in Market's favour. A lot of mental gymnastics going on.

I love a good gymnastics show at the fruit market....

 

[Artorius Horus T]

211-74 for Rantanen at the moment, not very close race.

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

I love a good gymnastics show at the fruit market....

god damn autocorrect lol

 

[cgf]

211-74 for Rantanen at the moment, not very close race.

Just cause the poll results aren't close doesn't mean people don't think it's a close race

If 80% of people think Mikko is better than Marner by a hair, then the race will look no closer than if 80% of people thought Rantanen was head & shoulders ahead of Marner.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Just cause the poll results aren't close doesn't mean people don't think it's a close race

If 80% of people think Mikko is better than Marner by a hair, then the race will look no closer than if 80% of people thought Rantanen was head & shoulders ahead of Marner.

????????? - Just decided to post the vote results, so far -

 

[cgf]

????????? - Just decided to post the vote results, so far -

Thought there was some "look at this anti-leaf bias" subtext to your post, my bad

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Thought there was some "look at this anti-leaf bias" subtext to your post, my bad

Its okay .