Rantanen Vs Marner

[Halla]

I also laugh at that because on another thread someone said that Rantanen had the 2nd most points among players drafted in 2015, when that was clearly false since Marner has more career points so far than he does.

did he mean for this year only? In that case it would be true.

but for their career, its mcdavid, eichel, marner, rantanen then aho.


Marner: 38g/121pts in 149 games
Rantanen: 45g/113pts in 154 games

I find it funny some avs fans make it seem like Rantanens 2016-2017 season shouldnt be included because the team was bad, but wanna base his ability entirely off a season where he lines up alongside a hart finalist

 

[LeafsNation75]

did he mean for this year only? In that case it would be true.

but for their career, its mcdavid, eichel, marner, rantanen then aho.


Marner: 38g/121pts in 149 games
Rantanen: 45g/113pts in 154 games

I find it funny some avs fans make it seem like Rantanens 2016-2017 season shouldnt be included because the team was bad, but wanna base his ability entirely off a season where he lines up alongside a hart finalist

He or she meant 2nd most among players drafted in 2015 career wise after McDavid, which was proven to be false.

 

[cgf]

What are you lot blathering on about? Rantanen was really good last season

 

[Snowsii]

did he mean for this year only? In that case it would be true.

but for their career, its mcdavid, eichel, marner, rantanen then aho.


Marner: 38g/121pts in 149 games
Rantanen: 45g/113pts in 154 games

I find it funny some avs fans make it seem like Rantanens 2016-2017 season shouldnt be included because the team was bad, but wanna base his ability entirely off a season where he lines up alongside a hart finalist

I havent seen a single poster saying so.. Only people saying that Leaf fans should understand, that Leafs scored 50% more goals than Avs.. and Mikko were Avs leading scorer. Which kind of takes floor out of their; Marner scored 61 points last season, and Rantanen only 38.

 

[MightySelanne8]

you cant really ignore what marner did last year either. 60pts vs 38. Marner is still 8 pts up up Rantanen for their career

I dont, but there is also context. Last year Avs was historically bad, I dont think many played a good season on that team. Still like I said, Rantanen developed a lot over summer and is currently the better player of the two.

 

[Halla]

I dont, but there is also context. Last year Avs was historically bad, I dont think many played a good season on that team. Still like I said, Rantanen developed a lot over summer and is currently the better player of the two.

currently, marner is playing at a nearly 1.5ppg pace (last 5 weeks or so). thats playing with 40pt marleau and 49pt kadriand splitting PP time, not 56pt landeskog and 89pt hart candidate mackinnon while getting all the pp ice time
like i said, a lot of excuses made about the avs being bad last year but then the same posters ignore the fact that marner

A) plays on line 2 (and sometimes 3)
B) had Bozak as his primary C, not Mackinnon
C) Gets way less PP time (Rantanen leads the avs with 3:45/game, marner gets 2:12)
D) gets way less ice time (2:32/gm less)

Give Marner 3:45/gm with his current PP production (24pts) and he jumps up to 77pts on the year.
so yeah, cant really just decide to ignore last years totals but then also disregard the fact the avs are a 1 line team that pretty much only roll 1 PP unit while Marner gets way less ice time especially on the PP

 

[Halla]

I havent seen a single poster saying so.. Only people saying that Leaf fans should understand, that Leafs scored 50% more goals than Avs.. and Mikko were Avs leading scorer. Which kind of takes floor out of their; Marner scored 61 points last season, and Rantanen only 38.

thats fine, but then said posters shouldnt ignore the fact rantanen gets nearly double the PP time, and his linemates have a combined 145pts vs the 89pts marners have

it works both ways.

 

[Plural]

currently, marner is playing at a nearly 1.5ppg pace (last 5 weeks or so). thats playing with 40pt marleau and 49pt kadriand splitting PP time, not 56pt landeskog and 89pt hart candidate mackinnon while getting all the pp ice time
like i said, a lot of excuses made about the avs being bad last year but then the same posters ignore the fact that marner

A) plays on line 2 (and sometimes 3)
B) had Bozak as his primary C, not Mackinnon
C) Gets way less PP time (Rantanen leads the avs with 3:45/game, marner gets 2:12)
D) gets way less ice time (2:32/gm less)

Give Marner 3:45/gm with his current PP production (24pts) and he jumps up to 77pts on the year.
so yeah, cant really just decide to ignore last years totals but then also disregard the fact the avs are a 1 line team that pretty much only roll 1 PP unit while Marner gets way less ice time especially on the PP

Good points and I think it's a lot closer than the stats this year suggest. Same as last season.

But I don't think it's accurate to just increase TOI and assume players will see linear increase in their production. It's reasonable to assume players will score more, but it's also reasonable to assume they would get tired out and see their overall play/production decrease. There's a reason why guys like Barkov and Kopitar are so highly revered. Among many things, they are capable of playing effectively for 20+ minutes every single game. That's something not a lot of players can say.

 

[Snowsii]

thats fine, but then said posters shouldnt ignore the fact rantanen gets nearly double the PP time, and his linemates have a combined 145pts vs the 89pts marners have
It works both ways.

Oh WOW! There must be something wrong with statistics, as i sure hell, dont get such total points from last year..
it works both ways.

 

[Halla]

Oh WOW! There must be something wrong with statistics, as i sure hell, dont get such total points from last year..
it works both ways.

"have" indicates present tense, as in this year.

so yeah, can't just ignore last years point totals but then think that this years point totals settles everything.

Marner is still 8 pts up for his career, all the while getting way less ice time. gonna leave it at that

 

[Halla]

Good points and I think it's a lot closer than the stats this year suggest. Same as last season.

But I don't think it's accurate to just increase TOI and assume players will see linear increase in their production. It's reasonable to assume players will score more, but it's also reasonable to assume they would get tired out and see their overall play/production decrease. There's a reason why guys like Barkov and Kopitar are so highly revered. Among many things, they are capable of playing effectively for 20+ minutes every single game. That's something not a lot of players can say.

maybe not linear but it was just an example to show that the stats arent everything. give Marner nearly double the ice time on the PP and he easily gets 10+pts (considering he has 24 with the time he has)

if the leafs rolled a Marner-Matthews-Kadri-JVR-Rielly PP those guys would absolutely have better stats.
that being said babs is well know to love depth and have all lines scoring. thats something the avs dont do, so they are obviouslly gonna have guys with more ice time and higher time on ice

 

[Snowsii]

"have" indicates present tense, as in this year.

so yeah, can't just ignore last years point totals but then think that this years point totals settles everything.

Marner is still 8 pts up for his career, all the while getting way less ice time. gonna leave it at that

Man.. you totally ignore the part that i talk last season and blabber about this season.

And yes.. Rantanen benefits playing with Mackinnon.

 

[cgf]

How many times do we have to see that when it comes to top 6 players, /60 stats fluctuate much more wildly based on PT than do /game stats?

Once you’re getting ~16 minutes a game or more the biggest reason guys get extra PT is because they are relied on defensively as well as offensively, or because their team is behind and needs the top players to produce...likely because they have not done so yet in the game to cause their team to be behind.

Plus it’s cute how quickly some leafs fans want to bring up “context” to protect their guy, but not a one mentions that the leafs scored 50% more goals last season than did Colorado because that “context” hurts their ability to point to the rookie year production and use it to wave away Mikko’s superior performance this year.

 

[Plural]

maybe not linear but it was just an example to show that the stats arent everything. give Marner nearly double the ice time on the PP and he easily gets 10+pts (considering he has 24 with the time he has)

if the leafs rolled a Marner-Matthews-Kadri-JVR-Rielly PP those guys would absolutely have better stats.
that being said babs is well know to love depth and have all lines scoring. thats something the avs dont do, so they are obviouslly gonna have guys with more ice time and higher time on ice

Yeah. I think it's close. Rantanen seems to have found his physical game too. I'd say these two are close but considering that Rantanen is having vastly better season than Marner's last season I'd go with him. I can still understand why someone (especially Leafs fan) would pick Marner. It's close and anyone claiming it's not is not watching them play.

But to be fair, a lot of people were claiming Marner > Rantanen last season and ainec was pretty popular word back then.

 

[Dache]

Rantanen

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Ahh, the classic "Babcock is holding our players back"

A tale for the ages

 

[Mickey Marner]

I would like to see Rantanen sustain his scoring without an MVP calibre center.
5v5 P60
With 29: 2.62
Without 29: 1.29

 

[MightySelanne8]

currently, marner is playing at a nearly 1.5ppg pace (last 5 weeks or so). thats playing with 40pt marleau and 49pt kadriand splitting PP time, not 56pt landeskog and 89pt hart candidate mackinnon while getting all the pp ice time
like i said, a lot of excuses made about the avs being bad last year but then the same posters ignore the fact that marner

A) plays on line 2 (and sometimes 3)
B) had Bozak as his primary C, not Mackinnon
C) Gets way less PP time (Rantanen leads the avs with 3:45/game, marner gets 2:12)
D) gets way less ice time (2:32/gm less)

Give Marner 3:45/gm with his current PP production (24pts) and he jumps up to 77pts on the year.
so yeah, cant really just decide to ignore last years totals but then also disregard the fact the avs are a 1 line team that pretty much only roll 1 PP unit while Marner gets way less ice time especially on the PP

Sigh, some people really stretch things on these boards nowadays especially if it involes a Fin and TML player.

First and foremost, Colorados top-line is all that the other teams are focusing in, their record (and secondary scoring too) is terrible when MacKinnon and Rantanen are held off the scoreboard.

Then, increased TOI doesnt mean linear growth in production, and "on pace" is one of the most annoying things on hfboards nowadays. Its not a sprint, its a marathon, played 82 games matter.

I don't think Rantanen will be 90 point player, more like in the 70 range and this year he just had everything go his way, and Mac is definitely a big part of it.

This might be interesting topic to revisit in 3-5 years when they are on their prime.

 

[cgf]

Ahh, the classic "Babcock is holding our players back"

A tale for the ages

To be fair that is his job. The holy trinity is so good that if Babs wasn't actively holding them back the NHL would be too easy for them and the leafs would go out of business because their fans would get sick of winning after 10 cups in a row.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Rantanen has already 77 points with 11 games to play. A certain 80 points and then some. Marner is not even close to this thus far at asking of this poll. Rantanen easily this year.

 

[Cotton]

Rantanen has already 77 points with 11 games to play. A certain 80 points and then some. Marner is not even close to this thus far at asking of this poll. Rantanen easily this year.

I imagine you avoided the Rantanen vs Laine thread with this thinking. You know, 77>68.

Rantanen has 77 points, and Leon Draisaitl now makes 8.5M a year because he was a passenger to a much better player too.

 

[cgf]

I imagine you avoided the Rantanen vs Laine thread with this thinking. You know, 77>68.

Rantanen has 77 points, and Leon Draisaitl now makes 8.5M a year because he was a passenger to a much better player too.

Leon makes 8.5M because he's an astounding player, who can play both center & wing.

And if that's what it takes to lock Mikko up for 8 years, I'd happily give him 8M per...I'd be even more thrilled with a number that started with a 7, but if it got it done 8 isn't an issue. He's a great player in his own right and the symbiosis with MacKinnon makes that deal well worth it. The kid didn't lead the team in goals & have a subsection of avs fans wondering if he wouldn't be our franchise player, by accident. He's a special talent who is well on his way to becoming the Voracek-Wheeler hybrid he was hyped up as; and that's well worth 8M a year.

 

[Cotton]

Leon makes 8.5M because he's an astounding player, who can play both center & wing.

And if that's what it takes to lock Mikko up for 8 years, I'd happily give him 8M per...I'd be even more thrilled with a number that started with a 7, but if it got it done 8 isn't an issue. He's a great player in his own right and the symbiosis with MacKinnon makes that deal well worth it. The kid didn't lead the team in goals & have a subsection of avs fans wondering if he wouldn't be our franchise player, by accident. He's a special talent who is well on his way to becoming the Voracek-Wheeler hybrid he was hyped up as; and that's well worth 8M a year.

Good god man, LD is not worth 8.5M, Oilers fans don’t even think he’s worth 8.5M. He’s a good player, like Rantanen, but both have their offensive number amplified by who they play with. If you’d be happy with Rants at 8x8 than better get prepared to be happy as he’ll be a PPG+ player this year.

 

[cgf]

Good god man, LD is not worth 8.5M, Oilers fans don’t even think he’s worth 8.5M. He’s a good player, like Rantanen, but both have their offensive number amplified by who they play with. If you’d be happy with Rants at 8x8 than better get prepared to be happy as he’ll be a PPG+ player this year.

Oh I hope they just lock him in for anything up to 8x8, and don't wait for him to have a second PPG+ year before asking for 9+, so fingers crossed And if oilers fans are unhappy with paying Leon 8.5M, we would love to pay him that much in colorado. So they should put him on a plan ASAP!

I can't help but wonder what you think your leafs are going to have to pay the trinity, when the time comes to lock them in?

 

[Snowsii]

Oh I hope they just lock him in for anything up to 8x8, and don't wait for him to have a second PPG+ year before asking for 9+, so fingers crossed And if oilers fans are unhappy with paying Leon 8.5M, we would love to pay him that much in colorado. So they should put him on a plan ASAP!

I can't help but wonder what you think your leafs are going to have to pay the trinity, when the time comes to lock them in?

They believe they get Matthews for 9-10m, and both Marner and Nylander 6-8m