Potential OHL Expansion Locations

[ohloutsider]

Have to agree with other posters - expansion makes no sense when you have some teams floundering and they may need a new home. Missy is probably the team that will need a new venue quicker than others - needs to be inside the Eastern conference landscape to not upset the conference divisions and travel - I could see Missy moving to New York/ Buffalo area or maybe Milton or somewhere just a little farther outside of the Toronto Hub. Hamilton also needs a new home but my gut feeling is something will be worked out for them in Hamilton. Lastly Flint but again the franchise has shown some interest locally and if the owner leaves, the team might be able to make a go of it in Flint.

 

[EvenSteven]

I think Missy to Milton would be a sideways move and therefore, a waste of time and money.

 

[digiblader]

Have to agree with other posters - expansion makes no sense when you have some teams floundering and they may need a new home. Missy is probably the team that will need a new venue quicker than others - needs to be inside the Eastern conference landscape to not upset the conference divisions and travel - I could see Missy moving to New York/ Buffalo area or maybe Milton or somewhere just a little farther outside of the Toronto Hub. Hamilton also needs a new home but my gut feeling is something will be worked out for them in Hamilton. Lastly Flint but again the franchise has shown some interest locally and if the owner leaves, the team might be able to make a go of it in Flint.

There's also the chance Andlauer uses Mississauga as a threat to the City of Hamilton too if he doesn't get plans for a new arena soon if the Steelheads do leave town--I don't see the OHL wanting to abandon Toronto, and is willing to sacrifice Hamilton for it if the city won't build a new arena or renovate FirstOntario..

 

[AttackSound]

Can't see the league not having a team in the GTA no matter the success of what the name they call them even Branch has been consistently adimit of that the GTA will remain in the league.

As a long time fan of the league I can see some form GTA based club remaining in the league for as long as the league believes that it can survive in the eastern conference. However the minor flaw the league has continued to ignore the simple fact that for the limited fan base in the GTA has to repurchase the own team's name every 4-5 seasons when the previous owner realizes that the financial crisis of operating a club in the biggest sport market in the country has a hard time attracting the surrounding area for fan support.

A better option would be to have a team possibly return to a place like New Market that's still near the ever growing GTA but far enough away from the bigger hubs like Toronto that have many sporting options for those citizens that enjoy junior sports like OHL hockey

 

[Puckclektr]

Can't see the league not having a team in the GTA no matter the success of what the name they call them even Branch has been consistently adimit of that the GTA will remain in the league.

As a long time fan of the league I can see some form GTA based club remaining in the league for as long as the league believes that it can survive in the eastern conference. However the minor flaw the league has continued to ignore the simple fact that for the limited fan base in the GTA has to repurchase the own team's name every 4-5 seasons when the previous owner realizes that the financial crisis of operating a club in the biggest sport market in the country has a hard time attracting the surrounding area for fan support.

A better option would be to have a team possibly return to a place like New Market that's still near the ever growing GTA but far enough away from the bigger hubs like Toronto that have many sporting options for those citizens that enjoy junior sports like OHL hockey

Newmarket is in the GTA. But you are right it has great growth and one of the fastest growing regions in the country.

 

[bobber]

Newmarket is in the GTA. But you are right it has great growth and one of the fastest growing regions in the country.

But again does Newmarket have the demographics to support an OHL team? Not that I think there will ever be expansion. Personally I think relocation is the only thing we will see going forwards.
Some teams could even fold down the road because its a profit driven business.

 

[Puckclektr]

But again does Newmarket have the demographics to support an OHL team? Not that I think there will ever be expansion. Personally I think relocation is the only thing we will see going forwards.
Some teams could even fold down the road because its a profit driven business.

Yes. Predominately white area, with lots of money in places like Aurora and King as well as Newmarket. WIthin 15 minutes of Newmarket you have major communities as well. Between Newmarket, Auorora, Bradford, Keswick, East Gwillumbury and King you have 260,000 people with more huge growth expected in BWG and EG in the next few years. Not to mention the rest of the county is within about a half hour and has over a million people in total.

 

[bobber]

Yes. Predominately white area, with lots of money in places like Aurora and King as well as Newmarket. WIthin 15 minutes of Newmarket you have major communities as well. Between Newmarket, Auorora, Bradford, Keswick, East Gwillumbury and King you have 260,000 people with more huge growth expected in BWG and EG in the next few years. Not to mention the rest of the county is within about a half hour and has over a million people in total.

Good analysis of the area. Would Newmarket not be included in Barrie's territory? The demographics I mentioned are hockey fans. No mention of race anywhere. Not every white person likes hockey. In KW the fans are multi national. Some areas of Ontario have a lot of soccer, baseball and foot ball fans along with people that will not support any type of sports because of a lack of interest or financial restraints. There are some cities with present franchises that really have a hard time putting butts in the stands. A couple have had more than one franchise and still fail to properly support a new one. Families going to games have to have disposable income to afford the cost. Even a chocolate bar cost almost five bucks and beer is a buck a swallow. Any group inquiring about a franchise really needs to do some logistical home work.

 

[Puckclektr]

Good analysis of the area. Would Newmarket not be included in Barrie's territory? The demographics I mentioned are hockey fans. No mention of race anywhere. Not every white person likes hockey. In KW the fans are multi national. Some areas of Ontario have a lot of soccer, baseball and foot ball fans along with people that will not support any type of sports because of a lack of interest or financial restraints. There are some cities with present franchises that really have a hard time putting butts in the stands. A couple have had more than one franchise and still fail to properly support a new one. Families going to games have to have disposable income to afford the cost. Even a chocolate bar cost almost five bucks and beer is a buck a swallow. Any group inquiring about a franchise really needs to do some logistical home work.

You mentioned demographics which generally includes race. I think it is kind of difficult to access the hockey demographics without getting into race. Growing up in the area my best friend was one of the few black families in the area,. I got to know, many of the other families and I know that although some did enjoy the sport, hockey fell below many sports including basketball, football, baseball and even soccer and cricket.
But let's not kid ourselves. I know not every white person likes hockey, but if you compare Newmarkets demographics to say Brampton, Markham or Milton you would see that there are a lot more hockey fans per 1,000 people just due to race, cultures and immigration.
Bradford has some of the best minor soccer teams in the country due to the high amount of Portuguese and Italians in the area and affected minor hockey growing up as they were placed in leagues with similar sized towns with similar population without considering that a third of the population didn't care about hockey as many were first generation.
Many black people do not care to play hockey. Now in the inner cities it may be bacuse of money, but here there are many black people that are financially stable, but the children still tend to lean towards other sports. Even financially stable families cannot afford hockey. Especially if your parent is an immigrant and your parent doesn't know the game and can't justify spending the money like a white non immigrant Canadian will. They will find a way to get their kid onthe ice becasue it is a passion and built into their culture. The same reason that cricket is so popular in Brampton. Don't get me worng there are many people from other cultures and countries that have no idea what hockey is until the immigrate here and then fall in love with it, the same way some of the people I know could care less about the game.
The game is becoming more popular for second and third generation immigrants in the suburbs, but most first generation immigrants that come here are normally just trying to save money to put food on the table and not going to dish out $100-200 that they don't have to take the family to a hockey game that they really have no clue about.
Aside from major cities in the OHL the majority of the demographics are white.
Barrie for example is about 90% white. Then if you go into the communities outside of Barrie it becomes even more white. If Barrie had the same demographics as Brampton or Markham, there is a good chance that they would not have a team.

 

[Candellacrew1989]

Im praying for expansion im tired of this david branch bone headed old school hockey mentality. U gota realize the game is expanding in pro and everywhere else specially in usa lately u wana develop the game more and get it more well known do what the whl does david branch. Take the stick outa ur ass and think outside the box i think we need a full us division like whl bring in albany seeing as they have no team no more and already have a rink to play in potentially and buffalo and for the hell of it since columbus area and ohio is growing huge in hockey hey wtf not try junior hockey in ohio i think it would work. Its big for echl so why not try junior hockey if not expand more into pennsilvania maybe pittsburgh big city and not far from erie and only 5 hrs from the border why not try pittsburgh. See if lemiuex would be intrested putting in ajunior team their get crosby and lemiux on board. And for southern ontario a team
Has to go in toronto area has to either markham or toronto like wtf biggest city for hockey and u dont have a ohl team i understand st micheals was the tdot team and folded but hello toronto has 4 million ppl ur teling me u cant put a rink somewhere or a team in etobicoke possibly masytercard centre or somewhere their in etobicoke and telling me
Hockey wouldent work their bs i guarentee a team would work in etobicoke work in pitrsburgh work in ohio and i know would work in buffalo.

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

Has to go in toronto area has to either markham or toronto like wtf biggest city for hockey and u dont have a ohl team i understand st micheals was the tdot team and folded but hello toronto has 4 million ppl ur teling me u cant put a rink somewhere or a team in etobicoke possibly masytercard centre or somewhere their in etobicoke and telling me
Hockey wouldent work their bs i guarentee a team would work in etobicoke work in pitrsburgh work in ohio and i know would work in buffalo.

You're forgetting about the Mississauga Steelheads and even the Hamilton Bulldogs...which might I add don't exactly sport huge attendance figures; wouldn't be surprised to see the Steelheads organization fold at some point. There's too much going on in Toronto for OHL hockey to have any decent shot at garnering any huge numbers, Leafs, Raptors and even Toronto FC eat up the majority of people

So no to Etobicoke because it'll just end up being another flop much like the other Toronto OHL clubs...Buffalo I think would be a failure too, just look at the poor attendance at the WJ this year, you think the people of Buffalo care about junior hockey?

 

[From Up Top]

Im praying for expansion im tired of this david branch bone headed old school hockey mentality. U gota realize the game is expanding in pro and everywhere else specially in usa lately u wana develop the game more and get it more well known do what the whl does david branch. Take the stick outa ur ass and think outside the box i think we need a full us division like whl bring in albany seeing as they have no team no more and already have a rink to play in potentially and buffalo and for the hell of it since columbus area and ohio is growing huge in hockey hey wtf not try junior hockey in ohio i think it would work. Its big for echl so why not try junior hockey if not expand more into pennsilvania maybe pittsburgh big city and not far from erie and only 5 hrs from the border why not try pittsburgh. See if lemiuex would be intrested putting in ajunior team their get crosby and lemiux on board. And for southern ontario a team
Has to go in toronto area has to either markham or toronto like wtf biggest city for hockey and u dont have a ohl team i understand st micheals was the tdot team and folded but hello toronto has 4 million ppl ur teling me u cant put a rink somewhere or a team in etobicoke possibly masytercard centre or somewhere their in etobicoke and telling me
Hockey wouldent work their bs i guarentee a team would work in etobicoke work in pitrsburgh work in ohio and i know would work in buffalo.

I don't think a US division would work in the OHL like in the W. Having Saginaw and Flint in the same division as Erie would be tough enough, let alone adding Pittsburgh and Albany as expansion teams like you suggest.

I think the idea of putting a team in Ohio would be interesting, but I think the league would look into that after New York.

Markham also has some potential, but i'd be afraid that its too close to Toronto to work like Mississauga.

 

[Tarantula]

No way Markham would work, lived all over the GTA for many years, can't see how they would draw, same problems with media coverage as Brampton had and currently facing Missy.

 

[OMG67]

Can we change the title of this thread to “Potential Relocation” Locations?

The OHL is nowhere near strong enough to expand at this point. There are too many teams in the red. With a pending court battle upon the OHL with respect to wages, it could seriously diminish the values of teams and could potentially make it necessary for a couple teams to move.

 

[count35]

Let’s be honest here....the league has already tried all the serviceable cities in Ontario....some more than once, or even twice. Expansion shouldn’t be in the minds of the keague, getting attendance up in the cities already in the league should be.

 

[Firebrd828]

TRAVERSE CITY. Travel would be an issue, and there's currently no arena with a large enough seating capacity, but there's definitely a hockey scene, and there's no NHL, AHL, ECHL, NCAA, USHL, OHL within an hour+. The Red Wings hold their training camp there every year, and the annual Prospects Tournament is there, also. Vibrant youth associations, many High School teams, and a lower-level US Junior team (USPHL) all there. There's a STRONG Indian Reservation presence in the area...with their casino $$$, there would be no problem getting an arena built and backing a team.

 

[TcNorth]

I live and work in Traverse City and with a population of only 14,000 year around residents, they couldn't support a NAHL team in our 1,100 seat arena. The Red Wings practices selliut and some of the NHL prospects games sellout. Great resort town on Lake Michigan, great restaurants, beautiful beaches and Winter Skiing, but not a good candidate for USHL or OHL Hockey in my opinion.. Surprised their NAHL North Stars didn't draw better though.

 

[Firebrd828]

I live and work in Traverse City and with a population of only 14,000 year around residents, they couldn't support a NAHL team in our 1,100 seat arena. The Red Wings practices selliut and some of the NHL prospects games sellout. Great resort town on Lake Michigan, great restaurants, beautiful beaches and Winter Skiing, but not a good candidate for USHL or OHL Hockey in my opinion.. Surprised their NAHL North Stars didn't draw better though.

I'm not saying that there's a chance in hell of it ever happening, but it's fun to imagine an OHL team in that area. The "Metro" TC area actually has 10x the population figure of the city itself, and for all that the area has, the "sports for entertainment" market is one that's not been tapped up there. The casino certainly would be able to make use of a facility appropriate for an OHL team. I believe the Hounds/North Stars play Tier 3 NAPHL, not Tier 2 NAHL, but with either one, wondering why people don't go to those game is pretty much like wondering why nobody goes to watch AAA games in the Detroit area...parents and scouts only. The "no year-round residents" argument kept the NHL out of Las Vegas for a very long time...that seems to be working out okay. And...the team wouldn't have to deal with the image problems that Flint and Saginaw currently have to fight.

 

[count35]

I agree that it's a beautiful location....heck i'm constantly bugging my wife for us to move to TC from the Soo!!! LOL
In my family we grew up going to TC every summer and it's almost the same distance as it is to Sudbury, with better shopping and restaurants! I'm IN!!

 

[TcNorth]

I'm not saying that there's a chance in hell of it ever happening, but it's fun to imagine an OHL team in that area. The "Metro" TC area actually has 10x the population figure of the city itself, and for all that the area has, the "sports for entertainment" market is one that's not been tapped up there. The casino certainly would be able to make use of a facility appropriate for an OHL team. I believe the Hounds/North Stars play Tier 3 NAPHL, not Tier 2 NAHL, but with either one, wondering why people don't go to those game is pretty much like wondering why nobody goes to watch AAA games in the Detroit area...parents and scouts only. The "no year-round residents" argument kept the NHL out of Las Vegas for a very long time...that seems to be working out okay. And...the team wouldn't have to deal with the image problems that Flint and Saginaw currently have to fight.

Don’t get me wrong. I would love it up here. As for, Las Vegas? They now have about 700,000 year around residents in this growing community. If I am not mistaken, their ECHL team had really good attendance.

 

[twinsdad]

I would question the wisdom of expanding or relocating the OHL into the United States. Attendance will always be good for the first year or too, until the novelty wears off. At that point, the hockey fans will continue to come to games, but the sports fans will begin to choose where they will spend their time and discretionary income.

In Michigan, football is king. It is High School football on Friday nights, so very few home hockey games on Friday nights in the fall are scheduled in Flint, Saginaw, and Erie. Home Sunday games are typically not played when they could compete with the NFL games that kickoff at 1:00. That leaves Saturday evenings in autumn, and I imagine the Saginaw and Flint front offices cross their fingers that neither Michigan or Michigan State are playing a night game. After Thanksgiving, then games can be any day.

But then you have to market an OHL game as being more entertaining than watching the NHL at home or at a local sports bar, where the beer is cheaper and doesn't require a ticket to get in.

And I will admit, I enjoy a good scrap on the ice. And based on the number of people that stand up when the gloves go down, I am not alone. But the rules have worked to reduce fights on the ice in the OHL, and I think that has hurt attendance in the states (when you don't have Connor McDavid). When I went to a few minor league hockey games in Saginaw before the Spirit came, I felt that the crowd was there mostly to see our goon versus their goon, especially when we played Flint. I base that on how loud the crowd got during a fight versus when we scored a goal. There is a gladiator coliseum mentality that drives U.S. Sports fans towards football and fights on the ice. Shameful? Probably. But it is what it is.

So that is the problem with expanding into the United States. Generally, we love football first. If football is not available, then we want to see some aggression on the ice, which is not part of the OHL anymore. If we want to watch professional hockey, we can stay home, hit a local bar, or even use our phone. There is small niche of people that have the time, the funds, and appreciate live junior hockey above other sport alternatives on a given night south of the border. So I would expect expansion/relocation would be more successful in Canadian town.

 

[TcNorth]

I would question the wisdom of expanding or relocating the OHL into the United States. Attendance will always be good for the first year or too, until the novelty wears off. At that point, the hockey fans will continue to come to games, but the sports fans will begin to choose where they will spend their time and discretionary income.

In Michigan, football is king. It is High School football on Friday nights, so very few home hockey games on Friday nights in the fall are scheduled in Flint, Saginaw, and Erie. Home Sunday games are typically not played when they could compete with the NFL games that kickoff at 1:00. That leaves Saturday evenings in autumn, and I imagine the Saginaw and Flint front offices cross their fingers that neither Michigan or Michigan State are playing a night game. After Thanksgiving, then games can be any day.

But then you have to market an OHL game as being more entertaining than watching the NHL at home or at a local sports bar, where the beer is cheaper and doesn't require a ticket to get in.

And I will admit, I enjoy a good scrap on the ice. And based on the number of people that stand up when the gloves go down, I am not alone. But the rules have worked to reduce fights on the ice in the OHL, and I think that has hurt attendance in the states (when you don't have Connor McDavid). When I went to a few minor league hockey games in Saginaw before the Spirit came, I felt that the crowd was there mostly to see our goon versus their goon, especially when we played Flint. I base that on how loud the crowd got during a fight versus when we scored a goal. There is a gladiator coliseum mentality that drives U.S. Sports fans towards football and fights on the ice. Shameful? Probably. But it is what it is.

So that is the problem with expanding into the United States. Generally, we love football first. If football is not available, then we want to see some aggression on the ice, which is not part of the OHL anymore. If we want to watch professional hockey, we can stay home, hit a local bar, or even use our phone. There is small niche of people that have the time, the funds, and appreciate live junior hockey above other sport alternatives on a given night south of the border. So I would expect expansion/relocation would be more successful in Canadian town.

Saturday afternoon and evenings in the fall are a big challenge for those of us who love College Football. Often, you will see Michigan, Michigan St., and Penn St starting games at 3:30 and lasting until close to 7pm or starting at 7pm or 8pm on Saturdays. The Ontario cities do not have this Frisay, Saturday, or Sunday issue. Also, Traverse City's Grand Traverse County population is only 86,000.

 

[ohloutsider]

Saturday afternoon and evenings in the fall are a big challenge for those of us who love College Football. Often, you will see Michigan, Michigan St., and Penn St starting games at 3:30 and lasting until close to 7pm or starting at 7pm or 8pm on Saturdays. The Ontario cities do not have this Frisay, Saturday, or Sunday issue. Also, Traverse City's Grand Traverse County population is only 86,000.

Windsor is impacted by this as well - Lots of Michigan/Michigan St fans here as well as Detroit Lions fans so when these games are on there is always a drop in attendance numbers at the Spits games.

 

[Firebrd828]

...Traverse City's Grand Traverse County population is only 86,000.

I got my number from the City of Traverse City's website. About Traverse City | City of Traverse City

"...While Traverse City’s official population is 14,572, and a daytime population of more than twice the official population, it is the hub of a Micropolitan Statistical Area of 143,372."
​

I guessing that they're considering the "Micropolitan Statistical Area" to stretch from Petoskey to Kalkaska to Frankfort and back.

Hey, I acknowledge that there are a lot more reasons why it will never happen than there are reasons why it would. I'm just saying that it's a shame, because if it were sustainable, it would be a great spot for something like the OHL.

 

[robertmac43]

If it wasn't so far removed from the South of Ontario I would say its about time Thunder Bay got a team