Potential OHL Expansion Locations

[buzzworthy]

Bobber, as far as Buffalo goes, granted, the tournament was poorly attended. However, I do think that in the Buffalo market, it is all about branding. Were you to build a nice OHL arena nearby, and did the leg work to sell the concept, it would work. Remember that the Otters played before over 10,000 fans several years ago in Buffalo. I know, I know, a lot of fans came to see some guy playing for the Otters at the time. However, more than a handful of fans from Buffalo attend Otter's games because of the low cost and the passport issue at the Canadian border. It might just work. Certainly, the Sabres still draw well despite their dismal record over the years.

 

[bobber]

Bobber, as far as Buffalo goes, granted, the tournament was poorly attended. However, I do think that in the Buffalo market, it is all about branding. Were you to build a nice OHL arena nearby, and did the leg work to sell the concept, it would work. Remember that the Otters played before over 10,000 fans several years ago in Buffalo. I know, I know, a lot of fans came to see some guy playing for the Otters at the time. However, more than a handful of fans from Buffalo attend Otter's games because of the low cost and the passport issue at the Canadian border. It might just work. Certainly, the Sabres still draw well despite their dismal record over the years.

Good points buzzworthy.

 

[Savard18]

Bobber, as far as Buffalo goes, granted, the tournament was poorly attended. However, I do think that in the Buffalo market, it is all about branding. Were you to build a nice OHL arena nearby, and did the leg work to sell the concept, it would work. Remember that the Otters played before over 10,000 fans several years ago in Buffalo. I know, I know, a lot of fans came to see some guy playing for the Otters at the time. However, more than a handful of fans from Buffalo attend Otter's games because of the low cost and the passport issue at the Canadian border. It might just work. Certainly, the Sabres still draw well despite their dismal record over the years.

I woulda been right behind you on this one until I saw the OHL pre-season games which were absolutely barren and then the WJC was disappointing to follow that up. I don't know how much better branded the OHL could be compared to USA World Juniors with a USA team that is now a contender every year AND a USA-Canada outdoor game. You may be right but I have serious doubts after this year. I'd prefer to see the Buffalo WNHL team start having some success. North American females are for real now and are as fun to watch as most men's leagues.

 

[EvenSteven]

Thunder Bay has been tossed around for a while and the city could support this no problem - the issue is travel - league could help cover some of the costs to fly teams in and out - teams would come in for 2 or more games on a weekend. Only have to make the trip once a year. Thunder Bay would fly south closest place to where they are playing and hit 4 cities in a week to save travel, but hotels do become an issue.
US of course is an option - Buffalo area might work - save some travel for Erie.

I have no doubt that Thunderbay would be able to fill in OHL size building every night. They have the population and it would be their only game in town.

As you said though, travel and distance from other OHL markets will be the reason why it will never work. Look no further than St. John's Newfoundland and what happened with their short-lived QMJHL hockey team. I think they only lasted one or two years. Attendance wasn't an issue. And they were doing as you said: teams would fly in and play a couple of games and then fly out. They would fly out on the road for a week and a half or 2 weeks busing to games then fly back home. The big problem with doing this along with the cost involved is the fact that these kids are student athletes. That means every time the St. John's team would fly out for up to two weeks, that meant two weeks not in the classroom.

Try selling that to parents of players when you're trying to get these players to report to that team. Parents know the value of an education and they want their kids in class as often as possible. This was not an ideal situation for the student athlete. Couple that with the fact that St. John's was so far away from the rest of the QMJHL, and travel to St.John's for parents to see their kids play was astronomical when you compare car trips around the Q. Any Thunder Bay team in the OHL would have a tough time financially and they would also have a tough time getting prospective players to want to play there. The vast majority of OHL players are from southern Ontario and if they and their parents had their druthers, they would all play relatively close to home.

Parents want to see their players play as much as possible. Given the choice, they'd much rather drive an hour or two from home and watch every one of their kids home games along with some road games then never being able to get to their kids home game if they're playing in Thunder Bay. If you think northern teams like Sudbury and Sault Ste Marie have issues getting players to report, then Thunder Bay would make Sault Ste. Marie and Sudbury look like destination teams.

 

[EvenSteven]

From an economic and logistical viewpoint, it's probable that Thunder Bay would be a far better fit into the WHL than the OHL. They're nearer to the Manitoba border than to the closest OHL team. Winter travel to and from could be problematic at times, and not to mention more expensive. Cornwall did at one time play in the "Q", so it's not unprecidented to have an overlap.

You will never see David Branch allow any city in OHL territory play in either the WHL or the QMJHL. He made that evident a few years ago when the QMJHL and the people in Cornwall wanted the OHL to allow Cornwall to play in the Q. Branch kept saying that it's a prospective future OHL city and quashed the idea.

The fact of the matter though is that Branch does not want to lose players to the other leagues. When Cornwall played in the QMJHL previously, players from the Cornwall area were property of the QMJHL. If Thunder Bay were to play in the WHL, I'm sure that players from the Thunder Bay area would fall under the WHL umbrella. David Branch does not want that to happen. He would rather not have any team at all in places like Thunder Bay or Cornwall then lose prospective OHL players to those leagues. Truth be told, I can't say that I blame him because it makes good sense for the strength of the OHL. This league is watered down enough now.

And with that in mind, 20 teams in the OHL is enough. The last thing I want to see this league watered down any more than it is now by adding more teams. They need to get their business in order with teams that are struggling anyway before talking about expansion.

 

[AttackSound]

Expansion in this league is always an on the fence topic IMO.

To a degree I agree that possibilities of expansion in the league is a good idea however for expansion to work the league would have to draw up completely different divisions for every team and that would mean that the divisions could come out uneven the only way that sort of thing would work would be if the league expanded an even number of teams for each conference which I can't see happening any time soon due to the kibosh rule that every club has the right to whether or not that want an expansion team nearby

 

[Puckclektr]

At the Mississauga game now. If you don't include the battalion fans, parents of the timbit kids here to play during intermission and the parents of the kids singing the national anthem, I bet there are about 500 actual Mississauga fans here.
After my fees I paid $38 for a ticket.
I could've went to watch the marlboros minor midget and bantam down the road for free. More exciting too.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

Relocation is going to be the pony to bet on; expansion simply isn't a business option... too few markets can sustain a team as it is, and contraction is a pock mark on the league.

In terms of relocation, I'd love to see Newmarket (as I live there), but Twinney doesn't have the necessary infrastructure for revenue as a facility. Cornwall would possibly work, but low-income demo and another place that needs a facility. Buffalo would be pretty legit I'd think.

 

[Puckclektr]

Relocation is going to be the pony to bet on; expansion simply isn't a business option... too few markets can sustain a team as it is, and contraction is a pock mark on the league.

In terms of relocation, I'd love to see Newmarket (as I live there), but Twinney doesn't have the necessary infrastructure for revenue as a facility. Cornwall would possibly work, but low-income demo and another place that needs a facility. Buffalo would be pretty legit I'd think.

i think twinney is fine. Built in the 80s but it housed an ohl and ahl team before. I could be biased as it was arguably my favorite rink to play in growing up. But there aren't many ohl teams making a lot of money and not many cities are willing to dish out money for a rink. I know Newmarket won't.

 

[Puckclektr]

Double post

 

[LDN]

At the Mississauga game now. If you don't include the battalion fans, parents of the timbit kids here to play during intermission and the parents of the kids singing the national anthem, I bet there are about 500 actual Mississauga fans here.
After my fees I paid $38 for a ticket.
I could've went to watch the marlboros minor midget and bantam down the road for free. More exciting too.

one ticket?

 

[Puckclektr]

one ticket?

Ya. Blue line about 13 rows up. 27 plus fees.
Left game with five minutes left. Watching the marlboros vs Vaughan right now. Missed the first 5 minutes but this is a great game. Way better than the ohl game And free

 

[three dog night]

I think the league has to settle the court case about wages first shore up struggling teams esp Misy and Hamilton with leases expiry and settle the Flint ownership problems first,

 

[digiblader]

I think the league has to settle the court case about wages first shore up struggling teams esp Misy and Hamilton with leases expiry and settle the Flint ownership problems first,

Not sure about the minimum wage lawsuit as that's been quiet for a while.

Missy and Hamilton's lease expiry are more urgent--though Missy is more in danger of relocation than Hamilton--but relocation risk in Hamilton is dependent on the city actually making progress on getting a new arena plan for the Bulldogs--like Niagara a few years back before Meridian Centre was built, the league and Andlauer is likely demanding significant renovations to FirstOntario Centre or a new arena in Hamilton(which Andlauer has offered to split costs) if they have any chance in that city keeping the team. Unfortunately, the city still continues to sit on its hands..

Missy is a high risk to leave--ownership has lost a lot of money in the last few years, and their attendance is at the bottom of the OHL (19th, ahead of North Bay, which is in a rebuild).

Flint's not likely going anywhere.. I believe the league still controls the team until 2021, and probably wants to give Flint a chance to succeed.

 

[bobber]

If teams are struggling now to put warm butts in the seats in some cities is it really a good idea to expand the league?

 

[digiblader]

Hamilton's relocation risk is increasing as the city of Hamilton continues to procrastinate--considering how long it takes to build a new arena, Michael Andlauer wants progress on a new arena now:

Years to move on new Hamilton arena too long: Bulldogs owner

 

[GensLensBrandon]

I think when I wrote the piece I should have worded it in a way that showed these cities could also be relocation destinations, not solely a location for a new team. Expansion or relocation, the piece means the same.

 

[TcNorth]

I remember some of those heated rivalry games in the COHL/UHL between the Flint Generals and Thunder Bay in the early 90’s. Having said that, the Thunder Bay teams averaged between 1,700 2,500 at Williams Gardens in a those days and may not have what the OHL is looking for.

 

[Sec108]

I think for Buff to work, you have to do like in the metro Detroit area.They went to more affluent suburbs like Plymouth a ways out of the D to make it work. This way your not being sucked up by the pro team in the market.And even then the franchise failed.

Also liked the comment of women's hockey being more competetive these days.....or is it the OHL has lowered their game just above women's hockey.

Its truly sad of what they have done to a once great league.

 

[EvenSteven]

I think for Buff to work, you have to do like in the metro Detroit area.They went to more affluent suburbs like Plymouth a ways out of the D to make it work. This way your not being sucked up by the pro team in the market.And even then the franchise failed.
.

Plymouth never worked in this league. They had trouble filling their building most nights despite having the cheapest seats in the league. If not for the team papering the house regularly, they'd be right down there with Missy in fan interest. The only reason they lasted as long as they did was an owner with deep pockets who didn't care that they lost money.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

i think twinney is fine. Built in the 80s but it housed an ohl and ahl team before. I could be biased as it was arguably my favorite rink to play in growing up. But there aren't many ohl teams making a lot of money and not many cities are willing to dish out money for a rink. I know Newmarket won't.

It would be fine for the crowd, but not for boxes or corporate sponsorships. Would require heavy renovation to put this in, and lack a true concourse. Simply no way I can see it being a viable barn in the current economic climate.

 

[Puckclektr]

It would be fine for the crowd, but not for boxes or corporate sponsorships. Would require heavy renovation to put this in, and lack a true concourse. Simply no way I can see it being a viable barn in the current economic climate.

Ya. I didn't think of the boxes. If anything they would upgrade arena as it doesn't make much sense for a new arena. The concourse is opposite most arenas being as it is at ice surface. But i don't think that would be much of a problem.

 

[From Up Top]

It would be fine for the crowd, but not for boxes or corporate sponsorships. Would require heavy renovation to put this in, and lack a true concourse. Simply no way I can see it being a viable barn in the current economic climate.

I would love to see York Region represented in the OHL, but I don't think renovations at Twinney would be enough. If they got a team through relocation or expansion, it would have to include a promise to build a new arena in the area much like what happened with the Ice Dogs when they moved to St. Catherines.

 

[AttackSound]

I'm not against expansion of the league but to my previous post the markets of where and the divional matchups would have to be completely gutted for something like that to work.

Unfortunately at this point in time expansion of the league will probably have to take a backseat till the such point in time that either the divisions are better layed out or the league finds a city that isn't close enough to any other existing club's market that has a decent size facility to host a club which by my last checking of the map is very limited right now the only market that would come to mind would be reinserting a place like Cornwall or Plymouth to the league but with limited success in both those markets I can't see any expansion any time soon

 

[Puckclektr]

I would love to see York Region represented in the OHL, but I don't think renovations at Twinney would be enough. If they got a team through relocation or expansion, it would have to include a promise to build a new arena in the area much like what happened with the Ice Dogs when they moved to St. Catherines.

I would love to see one in York Region but prefer Newmarket as I live in the area, but I can't see another arena in Newmarket as Twinney sits empty most of the time aside from minor hockey and Junior A, which is still pretty empty. Newmarket doesn't really have an identity as it is still a suburb, unlike Oshawa and Barrie. MArkham and Vaughan may have more of a budget to afford a new arena due to population and to a lesser extent Richmond Hill which has over 200,000 but is more centralized in the region. newmarket is the county seat but far away from parts of the region and with only 90,000 people it would be hard to justify building a 5,000 seat arena when there is already one that seats 3700 that doesn't draw much anymore like it did in the 80's and 90's.