Potential OHL Expansion Locations
- Thread starter GensLensBrandon
- Start date
I think as a market, Brantford is the best bet. The economy and demographics are good enough. Its location is just about perfect, and even though it's awfully close to Hamilton, most of the fans from Brantford only go down for a a handful of games each season. I'd imagine that wouldn't change much if Brantford had its own team, they would just be going as the away team's fans instead. That said, if Hamilton continues to dawdle on a new arena, I wouldn't be surprised if Andlauer threatens a move to Brantford as leverage. Brantford Bulldogs has a ring to it, eh? (Nothing personal, Hamilton fans-- I don't actually want you to lose your team!)
On that note, the arena will be the biggest hurdle to cross. The Gretzky Centre is nice, but nowhere near big enough and it's on a tight piece of land with no space to add another sheet of ice (I think this was a huge mistake during the last round of renovations). The more likely destination is the much, much older Civic Centre, but it's woefully inadequate by today's standards in terms of both seating capacity and amenities like suites and such. Could it be expanded and upgraded? I'm no engineer, but having been in there for Blast games I think it's a possibility. The funding, however, is a very, very different story.
Brantford would support an OHL franchise in my opinion, I always enjoyed watching the Alexanders of the time. To make it happen a new OHL aproved arena in a favorable location will need to be built, without the new arena fans will not come.
The problem is not the Brantford fans base it's the same as most other cities it's the rink, build a new state of the art and well accessible rink in Brantford and their fans will fill it.
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LDN
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AttackSound
Junior Hockey Fan Since Birth
Cornwall tried and failed so I'd think they'd be out of consideration for an expansion team in near future not to also count they tried it in both the O and Q with little to no success and New Market and Chatham are too near OHL cities in Windsor and Barrie so I'd say they'd be on the outs Thunder Bay and Timmins would be intereting but would have to realign the divisions to work and unfortunately I'd find it hard to on how that would work unless you completely tore down the conference's and realigned everyone in the league and anything near or around the GTA in any direction will be a hard sell with the leafs in the NHL down the road
In regards to Cornwall, that was the this is now. With the right hockey personel and a new rink they could be ver successful.
As for cities being too close, how should we answer Guelph and 20mi away Kitchener's successes to both teams
AttackSound
Junior Hockey Fan Since Birth
I'm not disputing that it wouldn't work I'm just pointing out that twice that city has had some form of Major Junior hockey league team in it and in both cases the team had folded up and moved away not to also keep in mind that it's location on the map would pose a huge question mark on redrawing the divisions entirely.
In regards to the Guelph and Kitchener in the league both cities buildings are far enough apart from each other and have a big natural rivialy dating back to the years of the Guelph Platers and Kitchener Rangers.
If Cornwall was to return to the league they would have to either renovate the old Ed Lumley Arena or build a new facility in that city. Not to also count that Ottawa 67's would probably have a say in wether or not it would effect there market on the league no other team would benefit from them returning to the league as they would be too far away from and sort of rivalry in the east. Hamilton is too far west as well as any sort of rivalry with teams in the league.
Can't see any form of a Cornwall OHL club materializing anytime soon that would be like putting an OHL team in Timmins,Ontario too far for any natural rivals and even if you could would you want to travel to Ottawa twice in a season for most clubs in the western conference I'd say most teams would vote it out by the board of governors and keep it the way it is
EvenSteven
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- I'm not sure the reason Cornwall moved from the Q to the OHL, but from what I understand, they chose to move to the OHL. Cornwall was a success in the Q both on the ice and at the box office (under QMJHL standards). After their move to the OHL, they became a mediocre team and attendance dwindled. The rest is history.
- I don't believe Ottawa is anywhere close enough to have any say as to whether Cornwall would get a team or not. If anything, I'd think they'd welcome the short road trip. I doubt the league would have issue either. They would replace Belleville for the three game eastern road swing for many teams.
- Cornwall isn't too far out of the way. That sort of thinking wouldn't have ever resulting in a team in Erie, or going way back, the Soo when they first got their team. In today's OHL, I doubt you'll ever see a team as far flung as the Soo was back in the day.
- I agree though that it'll be tough for Cornwall to get a team unless they get a viable building in place. The Q requested that they be permitted to put a team there a few years ago but the OHL vetoed that idea. Branch claimed that it was a future site for an OHL team so that was the end of it. Too bad because at least they'd have CHL hockey in that town today if the OHL would have allowed the Q to put one there.
If we look at the history of Cornwall, the Royals never folded from neither leagues. They were part of QMJHL for about fifteen years or so and won Memorial cup twice then they transfered to OHL for another ten.. They moved to Newmarket because the city did not want to build a new rink, there were always a good fan base with an average of 3200 per game sometime filling the old 4000 seats Ed Lumley (yes Lumley in Cornwall too) arena with 4300 including standings. They have now build, since tbe Royals moved out, a brand new 5800 seat Civic Complex.
What is to say any other close OHL cities can not have the similar rivalries as Kitchener/Guelph are having or do they have manopoly on rivalry.
With the distance between all WHL cities and QMJHL teams how do we explain their success. A Thunder Bay/Cornwall of (1415 klm) one way trip would still be closer to Rouyn-Noranda/Sydney NS (2071 klm) trip or Brandon/Portland (2150 kml). - Why can't OHL do it for less distance, our buses are just as good and comfortable as theirs.
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With the Bulldogs fighting Hamilton city council for a new arena I could see Brantford or Burlington being used as possible landing spots for the team if they don't get what they want.
As for the Steelheads, it wouldn't cause much of a disruption for re-alignment if they relocated to either Cornwall or Newmarket. If the Trout moved to Cornwall they could switch places with the Bulldogs.
Have you been to the rink? They never built a brand new arena. They added seats to the bottom when they held the Royal Bank Cup a few years back. The only brand new arena in Cornwall is the Benson Centre and the main rink will hold a 1000 or so.
You are correct, they added 1000 seats done renovation and changed the name in 2008, I was wrong to call it a brand new arena. To answer your question, yes I have as a member of an opposition team many moons ago.
Cornwall OHL
That's my O face.
As far as Cornwall goes, they never failed.
Cornwall was one of the most successful franchises in the QMJHL. With 3 Memorial Cups, they were one of the premier teams in the Q. The franchise started in the CJHL, and applied to be in what would become the O. When they were denied, the Q opened their doors for Cornwall because of the close proximity to the Quebec border, and the Francophone population.
In 1982 they were told they were moving leagues because it only made sense that a team from Ontario would play in the Ontario league. This was a huge blow to Cornwall as fans would travel from western Quebec to watch a game. They were not successful on the ice or in the stands in the 10 years they were in the OHL.
In 1992 the writing was on the wall, and owner/crook (Google him) William Wise decided to move the team to Newmarket, where they continued under the Royals moniker. They suffered through two dismal seasons in Newmarket before being purchased by the Ciccarelli Brothers who moved the franchise to Sarnia to become the Sting.
After one year without a main tenant at the Cornwall Civic Complex (Ed Lumley Arena), Cornwall received the AHL affiliate of the Quebec Nordiques. The city heavily funded the franchise. After two seasons as the AHL affiliate for the Nordiques, Quebec moved to Colorado. Colorado was immediately successful and won the Stanley Cup. After one season, Colorado's AHL affiliate went dormant. It would come back to life three seasons later as Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins.
So no, AttackSound... Cornwall was not a failure, in fact they would rank third amongst Memorial Cup wins.
Cornwall was one of the most successful franchises in the QMJHL. With 3 Memorial Cups, they were one of the premier teams in the Q. The franchise started in the CJHL, and applied to be in what would become the O. When they were denied, the Q opened their doors for Cornwall because of the close proximity to the Quebec border, and the Francophone population.
In 1982 they were told they were moving leagues because it only made sense that a team from Ontario would play in the Ontario league. This was a huge blow to Cornwall as fans would travel from western Quebec to watch a game. They were not successful on the ice or in the stands in the 10 years they were in the OHL.
In 1992 the writing was on the wall, and owner/crook (Google him) William Wise decided to move the team to Newmarket, where they continued under the Royals moniker. They suffered through two dismal seasons in Newmarket before being purchased by the Ciccarelli Brothers who moved the franchise to Sarnia to become the Sting.
After one year without a main tenant at the Cornwall Civic Complex (Ed Lumley Arena), Cornwall received the AHL affiliate of the Quebec Nordiques. The city heavily funded the franchise. After two seasons as the AHL affiliate for the Nordiques, Quebec moved to Colorado. Colorado was immediately successful and won the Stanley Cup. After one season, Colorado's AHL affiliate went dormant. It would come back to life three seasons later as Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins.
So no, AttackSound... Cornwall was not a failure, in fact they would rank third amongst Memorial Cup wins.
AttackSound
Junior Hockey Fan Since Birth
Looking from an OHL perspective they statistically were that's why they left the OHL in the first place like most clubs lack of success consecutively forced the Royals out and when they were in talks of returning to the OHL in the late 90's the league made it clear that unless they could find a market without any sort of push back they could return and when OS was given the option to renovate the Bayshore they were given a window to meet league standards that forced the investors out before the 1999-2000 season.
Since then Cornwall has had limited success as you mentioned in the Q but once again failed to meet standards and then left the Q. Memorial Cups mean little to success in the league's eyes and more about filling seats and staying in the black financially along with facility upgrades that was something Cornwall couldn't assure at the time and Owen Sound was willing to dig deep too ensure success and facilitate a building that would be kept up with league standards.
If you are unaware of league history in the OHL Cornwall/Owen Sound hockey club incident I suggest searching for the Owen Sound Platers to Attack YouTube video or looking around for articles out of the Owen Sound Sun Times in the early spring of the year 2000 for a more detailed description of what went on
Just as the link to the original article has been lost to the length of the thread and still pertains to most of the conversation, I thought I could bring it back: Potential OHL Expansion Cities: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
razor ray
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Just curious why you do not believe Buffalo, NY would not be a good city? Just more curiosity as I have no attachments to Buffalo I just though proximity, fan support, facilities, etc. check all the boxes.
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Firebrd828
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- Oct 21, 2015
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The OHL has obviously flirted with Buffalo, last year's pre-season games being the most obvious example. I think the biggest reasons against it would be it's proximity to Niagara, and the presence of an NHL team.
Otto
Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
What about Pittsburgh. They have the highest NHL TV ratings of any US market. If Crosby were to get involved it might be something special.
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