Post-Game Talk: Post Mortem Analysis

[AngelDuck]

I'm actually not against sucking next season if both RC and BM are canned.

Are the Samueli's really going to let Murray pick another coach? How many opportunities has he really earned?

I have some respect for both of them but limit the damage and move on before things get really bad. They're trending in a bad direction right now.

The team is going to have to embrace the youth in the last couple years of Perry/Getzlaf, it's just the way it is. Gotta find a coach who can get the most out of young players, and that just isn't RC

 

[Exit Dose]

I suspect that all the talk about players needing to play fast is a euphemism aimed at the conditioning of some of the players on the roster.

 

[DaGeneral]

I suspect that all the talk about players needing to play fast is a euphemism aimed at the conditioning of some of the players on the roster.

If only we had a coach who was good at managing players ice team and going hard in practice to get the conditioning up to par..

 

[HanSolo]

I suspect that all the talk about players needing to play fast is a euphemism aimed at the conditioning of some of the players on the roster.

I don't think that's off base. Like...the Ducks don't have to be the fastest team on aggregate to keep up with today's model. They just need to be fast enough to keep up and not drain the tank by the third period every game.

Some guys on the team like Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, etc. they're never gonna be that kind of guy to be a speedster. But we've all seen they're capable of keeping up. Guys like Fowler, Lindholm, Montour (already fast), Kase, Cogliano, Rakell...etc. All these guys have the capability to skate at a modern NHL level speed with the right conditioning focus. I just don't think that is Carlyle's focus. We're talking about a guy who overplays his top lines cause his brain is stuck 11 years in the past. If this man gave a shit about conditioning management, we'd see different results. But clearly, he doesn't. And save for Murray breathing down his neck to make those changes (odds on that slim to none), Carlyle isn't going to do shit about it. At least Boudreau had the sense to keep shifts short and constantly changing. Granted it didn't help us much and there were times he overrelied on his big guns as well, but it certainly wasn't a problem the way it is today.

I still come back to this fear that we have prospects like Terry, Comtois, Steel, Pettersson, Larsson, Roy. These guys don't play Carlyle hockey. They just don't. That's honestly my biggest worry. This team has some damn solid prospects but they could very well go to waste under this dinosaur of a coach.

It's baffling to me that Murray sees the problems with this team and goes "well shit we should bless our lucky stars we even made the playoffs, nothing wrong with my main man Randy. No siree." Like come the f*** on man. I know we're all armchair GMs but I really can't see how anyone can justify Carlyle getting another chance. Unless you're obsessed with hitting and fighting and think Carlyle is the last bastion of Ol' Tyme Hockey

 

[Dryish]

So frankly unless we get absolutely magical years from pretty much everybody next year or we stumble out of the gate so badly that Carlyle gets canned two months in and we find someone else to come in and right the ship, we can consider this team's window shut for as long as this core is here. Welcome to four to five seasons of absolute mediocrity that gets worse year by year.

Thank you, Bob Murray.

 

[duckpuck]

People in this thread lumping Getzlaf and Perry together are misguided. Getlzaf (with his supposedly "slow decision making") is an assist machine and has no problem playing and keeping up with faster forwards (Rakell, Kase). Simply put, Getlaf will produce with any speed of play. Had he not been injured, he probably leads the league in assists (most of them primary). And when he's not worn out, he's defensively responsible and good on the dot.

Perry is very different. His lack of skating directly impacts how often he touches the puck and where he is on the ice - his shooting and goal scoring is noticeably worse but he still can add assists. The effort and intensity are not consistently there. He may need a change of scenery though clearly BM was trying to light a fire under him with today's comments.

The maddening thing is that Murray says "In today's hockey you can't just play four or five defenseman and nine forwards" Murray now supposedly believes the fourth line should play between 10 and 14 minutes each game while it usually skated between five and seven minutes." No duh. Why the F did he not perhaps mention that to Carlyle at any point in the past 10 years? Maybe he did, in which case why is RC still the coach?

I can't help but wonder if Murray's comments weren't intended as an indirect message to RC as well. It is now out there and if RC continues to not roll 4 lines, I think (really hope) he's a goner.

 

[LuGBuG]

Sucks but what can I do. I’ll remain optimistic hope for them to change and for the best.

 

[Duck Off]

His approach to and usage of young players has changed pretty dramatically. I'm not sure why guys don't acknowledge that, or in some cases act like the opposite is true, but it's pretty much impossible to deny.

That’s one of the knocks on Carlyle around here I’ve never agreed or at least think it’s overblown. He makes sure they prove they’re ready but I don’t have a problem with that. I think he was the same in his first stint. Did it take him too long to get Bieksa out of the lineup in favor of a younger player? Yes, he prefers vets too often but that’s almost every coach in the league.

So I guess I don’t “acknowledge that” but that’s because I think that complaint of him is overdone. I don’t like it but when almost all of the coaches do it, hard to complain about it.

 

[Frosted Tips]

I wonder if there was a bit of a disconnect between Murray and Carlyle regarding the 4th line. Maybe Murray wanted all season to utilize to 4th line more, but saw that Carlyle doesn't fancy the young guns in San Diego so he went on to get a couple of over the hill veterans at the deadline instead only to see no change.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

9

That’s one of the knocks on Carlyle around here I’ve never agreed or at least think it’s overblown. He makes sure they prove they’re ready but I don’t have a problem with that. I think he was the same in his first stint. Did it take him too long to get Bieksa out of the lineup in favor of a younger player? Yes, he prefers vets too often but that’s almost every coach in the league.

So I guess I don’t “acknowledge that” but that’s because I think that complaint of him is overdone. I don’t like it but when almost all of the coaches do it, hard to complain about it.

Ok that's fair, but even then it's something he's objectively changed in that regard. The other apparently is his demeanor, which does seem a lot better since his last stint, although it's impossible for us to actually tell for sure.

 

[KelVarnsen]

I wonder if there was a bit of a disconnect between Murray and Carlyle regarding the 4th line. Maybe Murray wanted all season to utilize to 4th line more, but saw that Carlyle doesn't fancy the young guns in San Diego so he went on to get a couple of over the hill veterans at the deadline instead only to see no change.

If that were the case, then BM would look like an even bigger idiot for not firing RC.

If the GM wants his coach to play a 4th line of younger player and the coach doesn’t do it, the GM fires the coach.

 

[bsu]

Can we wear paper bags to the games next year?

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

So frankly unless we get absolutely magical years from pretty much everybody next year or we stumble out of the gate so badly that Carlyle gets canned two months in and we find someone else to come in and right the ship, we can consider this team's window shut for as long as this core is here. Welcome to four to five seasons of absolute mediocrity that gets worse year by year.

Thank you, Bob Murray.

Not only that, but we are conceding that we are refusing to do anything next year to fix the problem. We're just gonna hope RC does a 180.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

The loss is still raw.

Judging by the season, it's impressive that the team got into the playoffs with so many injuries. Even though Kesler did play, he wasn't the same Kes, but he put his best effort - except his body couldn't respond. Someone mentioned that RC had the right idea with our mobile defense, but we had too many not buy into that program as many stood still. All season long we've heard it from RC and Hazy about the team standing still and not skating.

Our defense and netminding are on the same page, though. 3rd overall in goals allowed. 5th in the PK. We had four d-men put up 30 or more points. Lindholm had 13 goals.

Our offense is just... bleah. 23rd on the PP. 18th in goals scored.

Can we get a new PP coach and philosophy as well? Getting Eaves back would be a boon on the PP.

As for the playoffs, did we expend too much energy getting into the playoffs? I didn't think so before the playoffs. Seeing our record at home had me thinking wonderful things. Then we came out flat. Is this similar to Kes situation... right mentality, but the body wouldn't respond? I dunno.

RC using young guys is a change. RC choosing Grant over Vermette is overlooked. But then again, Grant wasn't used by RC when players started getting healthy. I dunno... I was expecting RC to be fired.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

If that were the case, then BM would look like an even bigger idiot for not firing RC.

If the GM wants his coach to play a 4th line of younger player and the coach doesn’t do it, the GM fires the coach.

Yeah I don't think it's being appreciated that this is a manager telling his employee what to do and that it's really not normal. The amount of control Murray has over the coaching is a bit unsettling, even if nice to see at this very moment. And strange given the power balance league-wide is shifting to coaches.

 

[bumperkisser]

Yeah I don't think it's being appreciated that this is a manager telling his employee what to do and that it's really not normal. The amount of control Murray has over the coaching is a bit unsettling, even if nice to see at this very moment. And strange given the power balance league-wide is shifting to coaches.

that's indeed the weirdest part.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

That’s one of the knocks on Carlyle around here I’ve never agreed or at least think it’s overblown. He makes sure they prove they’re ready but I don’t have a problem with that. I think he was the same in his first stint. Did it take him too long to get Bieksa out of the lineup in favor of a younger player? Yes, he prefers vets too often but that’s almost every coach in the league.

So I guess I don’t “acknowledge that” but that’s because I think that complaint of him is overdone. I don’t like it but when almost all of the coaches do it, hard to complain about it.

Our fourth line should have been on ongoing process to find productivity. We found a player like Grant who showed he can be with skilled players, and instead of trying new guys from the Gulls be it Roy, Kossilla, or someone else they settled on Vermette, Kelly, Chimera, and JT Brown.

Kossilla is a player who needs an opportunity for instance but the ducks chose "safe" aka players who we already knew could not really make positive impacts

Then you have said player in Grant who was really good at creating deflection opportunities and... Kesler who just didn't have it this year plays on the PP over him.

The roster usage was incredibly poor as we got healthier

 

[KaseMeOutside]

The loss is still raw.

Judging by the season, it's impressive that the team got into the playoffs with so many injuries. Even though Kesler did play, he wasn't the same Kes, but he put his best effort - except his body couldn't respond. Someone mentioned that RC had the right idea with our mobile defense, but we had too many not buy into that program as many stood still. All season long we've heard it from RC and Hazy about the team standing still and not skating.

Our defense and netminding are on the same page, though. 3rd overall in goals allowed. 5th in the PK. We had four d-men put up 30 or more points. Lindholm had 13 goals.

Our offense is just... bleah. 23rd on the PP. 18th in goals scored.

Can we get a new PP coach and philosophy as well? Getting Eaves back would be a boon on the PP.

As for the playoffs, did we expend too much energy getting into the playoffs? I didn't think so before the playoffs. Seeing our record at home had me thinking wonderful things. Then we came out flat. Is this similar to Kes situation... right mentality, but the body wouldn't respond? I dunno.

RC using young guys is a change. RC choosing Grant over Vermette is overlooked. But then again, Grant wasn't used by RC when players started getting healthy. I dunno... I was expecting RC to be fired.

Our goals Allowed is misleading, it wasn't because of our D or system. The shot charts that I've seen show it was because our two goalies arguably we're the best performing duo in the league. They masked an otherwise bad to mediocre team, at least defensively

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Our goals Allowed is misleading, it wasn't because of our D or system. The shot charts that I've seen show it was because our two goalies arguably we're the best performing duo in the league. They masked an otherwise bad to mediocre team, at least defensively

Which Bob even acknowledged while explaining all of our deficiencies and patting Randy on the back. Mind blowing stuff.

 

[AngelDuck]

Yeah I don't think it's being appreciated that this is a manager telling his employee what to do and that it's really not normal. The amount of control Murray has over the coaching is a bit unsettling, even if nice to see at this very moment. And strange given the power balance league-wide is shifting to coaches.

It's real strange. This reminds me of the Angels situation with Scioscia 5-6 years ago, but in the other direction obviously

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

If Murray wants a 4th line that can play 10-12 minutes, he needs to go get some players that can play those minutes.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

If Murray wants a 4th line that can play 10-12 minutes, he needs to go get some players that can play those minutes.

Or rotate some young guys and hope for the best while at least getting a better read on which young players can adapt as well as help them realize what they need to work on when/if they get sent back down. Pretty much the things that are anathema to RC.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Or rotate some young guys and hope for the best while at least getting a better read on which young players can adapt as well as help them realize what they need to work on when/if they get sent back down. Pretty much the things that are anathema to RC.

Yep. No young player ever got a chance or improved under this coach.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Yep. No young player ever got a chance or improved under this coach.

Surely you aren't going to tell me Randy's style/system favors developing you players? Let's be realistic. Kase got more ice time due to Eaves being out. Montour got more ice time when Sami left. And even at that they were expected to simplify their game. Roy looked good then struggled. Boom he's gone never to return. Kossila gets a few games and is gone. We spend half a year dressing Boll then decide to upgrade with Chimera and Kelley. All of this while playing a 4th line minimal minutes. Yes, Pettersson got a chance due to injuries and hung on as finally even RC saw how bad Bieksa was.

Being forced to play guys who end up showing they belong is not the same as recognizing the need to do so. Refusing to use the 4th line to develop anybody is just another example of the archaic thinking RC uses. Bob knows it, he admitted it. I'm not sure how you can defend RC as some great developer of young talent.

 

[70sSanO]

Besides what has already been said, we are one of the worst passing teams. We are slow and indecisive. We can never, and I mean never, get an odd man rush to work. We never pass or wait too long. We never have anyone following the play to pick up the rebound. It is not just speed or playing faster it is basic youth hockey sense.

John