Rumor: Philadelphia looking for a D-man - Schenn and Couturier maybe available

[YMCMBYOLO]

If they can sign him.

They traded for Hamhuis's rights a few years ago but couldn't agree to terms.

That's not what I was going at. another poster said since they traded for Streit (and sign him successfully), that they should trade Coburn. It doesn't make any sense as if they trade Coburn, they'll be in the same position as they were this season.

 

[Anglesmith]

That's not what I was going at. another poster said since they traded for Streit (and sign him successfully), that they should trade Coburn. It doesn't make any sense as if they trade Coburn, they'll be in the same position as they were this season.

Strictly speaking, what I've read is that they might be looking to trade Coburn at the draft if they can get Streit signed. A lot of Flyers fans seem to think they've seen the last of him now that they 'have' Streit.

 

[Double Dion]

From a summary of the season ticket holders meeting:

Thanks!

 

[Double Dion]

Could work as good motivation. Maybe he didn't want to call him our 1C of the future when he has to negotiate a new contract with him?

Or hell, maybe he wants to see him play an injury free season.

That was my thought as well. That can be a risky game though if you sour the relationship with the player. Backlund seems like a happy/positive type guy though, so he can probably handle it. I think he's already a 2nd line center personally.

 

[Anglesmith]

That was my thought as well. That can be a risky game though if you sour the relationship with the player. Backlund seems like a happy/positive type guy though, so he can probably handle it. I think he's already a 2nd line center personally.

I think the best way to deal with that is to get the negotiations done and have Hartley slam a letter on his chest right away. He's ready for it and he clearly wants to lead.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I think the best way to deal with that is to get the negotiations done and have Hartley slam a letter on his chest right away. He's ready for it and he clearly wants to lead.

I feel the same way. Would love to see Backlund sporting an A next year.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Could work as good motivation. Maybe he didn't want to call him our 1C of the future when he has to negotiate a new contract with him?

Or hell, maybe he wants to see him play an injury free season.

I just don't view Feaster as a great evaluator of hockey talent. He said Brad Richards, Iginla and Tangs all would of been 100pt players had he signed here, that's just a tad overly optimistic.

I'm in the middle here, I agree with AH that Backlund needs to man up, condition himself accordingly and show he can play a full season, otherwise what Feaster said may be true. But I also see the potential he has, which is not that of a #3C. If Backlund can hit his ceiling, he may be a slight step down from a player Gagner up north playing in a #2 role, only he can play defence.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I truly believe that when he was healthy and playing that he was consistently our best three zone player, and actually created the most offensive opportunities when he was on the ice. His numbers last season were exceptionally good given the role he was playing. I do however agree with you about his overall upside, and also think that those types of players are invaluable to a team.

[Among NHL regulars on the Flames]
Mikael Backlund led the team in shots on goal per game with 2.75
Mikael Backlund led the team in takeaways per game with 0.875
Mikael Backlund ranked third amongst forwards in shots blocked per game with 0.59
Mikael Backlund ranked third amongst forwards in penalty minutes trailing only Jackman and Mcgratton with 29 PIMS
Mikael Backlund ranked seventh amongst forwards in ES TOI/G with 13:19
Mikael Backlund ranked eighth amongst forwards in PP TOI/G with 1:23
Mikael Backlund had the 2nd highest QOC rankings on the team with 0.057
Mikael Backlund had the 11th lowest offensive zone start numbers on the team with 45.4%
Mikael Backlund had the 2nd highest offensive zone start finishes on the team with 52.7%
Mikael Backlund led the team with an on ice corsi rating of 2.14
Mikael Backlund was 2nd on the team in relative corsi rating with 9.7 trailing only TJ Brodie

Completely appreciate the legwork in gathering the stats. However, I am loathe to praise Backlund without comparison to players on a better team - sure he's one of the better Flames (when healthy) but how does he compare to players on teams that are, you know, good?

 

[Anglesmith]

Completely appreciate the legwork in gathering the stats. However, I am loathe to praise Backlund without comparison to players on a better team - sure he's one of the better Flames (when healthy) but how does he compare to players on teams that are, you know, good?

Hard to say which would give more useful results. After all, Backlund constitutes only 1/5th of the skaters on the ice at a given time, and those numbers can be improved or reduced by the play of his linemates easily.

 

[superhakan]

Completely appreciate the legwork in gathering the stats. However, I am loathe to praise Backlund without comparison to players on a better team - sure he's one of the better Flames (when healthy) but how does he compare to players on teams that are, you know, good?

These stats do that.

Mikael Backlund had the 2nd highest QOC rankings on the team with 0.057
Mikael Backlund had the 11th lowest offensive zone start numbers on the team with 45.4%
Mikael Backlund had the 2nd highest offensive zone start finishes on the team with 52.7%
Mikael Backlund led the team with an on ice corsi rating of 2.14
Mikael Backlund was 2nd on the team in relative corsi rating with 9.7 trailing only TJ Brodie

It shows he faced the 2nd toughest competition with the most starts in the defensive zone, but his line still out chanced the competition. These stats compare him to his competition not his teammates.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

These stats do that.

Mikael Backlund had the 2nd highest QOC rankings on the team with 0.057
Mikael Backlund had the 11th lowest offensive zone start numbers on the team with 45.4%
Mikael Backlund had the 2nd highest offensive zone start finishes on the team with 52.7%
Mikael Backlund led the team with an on ice corsi rating of 2.14
Mikael Backlund was 2nd on the team in relative corsi rating with 9.7 trailing only TJ Brodie

It shows he faced the 2nd toughest competition with the most starts in the defensive zone, but his line still out chanced the competition. These stats compare him to his competition not his teammates.

So when I keep seeing the phrase "on the team" and am assuming that the comparison is to his teammates, that's not the case?

 

[Anglesmith]

So when I keep seeing the phrase "on the team" and am assuming that the comparison is to his teammates, that's not the case?

As I understand it, it is comparing how he compares against his competition in comparison with his teammates.

Basically, the numbers themselves compare him with his competition. Then those numbers are compared with his teammates.

For example, Backlund started in the offensive end 45% of the time and ended there 53% of the time, meaning that on average, he was moving the puck in the right direction against his opposition. This happened, by the way, while playing the tougher shifts against more skilled opposition of other teams. In other words, he was better than the other teams' best players.

 

[wpgjets2013]

Winnipeg Jets

I think something like Buff for Schenn and a 2nd round pick would be amazing!

Schenn used to play in Brandon he would love it here!!!

 

[Anglesmith]

I think something like Buff for Schenn and a 2nd round pick would be amazing!

Schenn used to play in Brandon he would love it here!!!

The hard part would be getting Buff on the Flames in the first place.

 

[MarkGio]

That's not how I understand it. Corsi doesn't characterize Backlund as better than other team's best players, they characterize him as successful when facing more quality competition, relative to his teammates. Basically, if Backlund plays third line minutes, but does well (on average) against 2nd line players and fellow 3rd line opposition, but gets spanked by 1st line guys, then Backlund is still "better" than his opposition, and even better than quality opposition. A lot of it is relative too. So the fact that Tangs, Iggy, and Cammy were outperformed, opens the door to lesser tier players to perform well, unless a club is getting spanked game in and game out

 

[TylerSVT*]

I dont want Couts for what it would cost to get him.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

As I understand it, it is comparing how he compares against his competition in comparison with his teammates.

I'll just take your word for it.

 

[Anglesmith]

That's not how I understand it. Corsi doesn't characterize Backlund as better than other team's best players, they characterize him as successful when facing more quality competition, relative to his teammates. Basically, if Backlund plays third line minutes, but does well (on average) against 2nd line players and fellow 3rd line opposition, but gets spanked by 1st line guys, then Backlund is still "better" than his opposition, and even better than quality opposition. A lot of it is relative too. So the fact that Tangs, Iggy, and Cammy were outperformed, opens the door to lesser tier players to perform well, unless a club is getting spanked game in and game out

Yes, I oversimplified. This is a great exercise in science. It's not about getting the data, it's about figuring out a way to interpret the data which makes sense.

 

[MarkGio]

Yes, I oversimplified. This is a great exercise in science. It's not about getting the data, it's about figuring out a way to interpret the data which makes sense.

For sure. I love the player usage charts a lot. The numbers are one thing, but to actually see a player marked against his peers really helps, as well as how the player is characterized (eg. 2-way, sheltered).

 

[HighLifeMan]

Completely appreciate the legwork in gathering the stats. However, I am loathe to praise Backlund without comparison to players on a better team - sure he's one of the better Flames (when healthy) but how does he compare to players on teams that are, you know, good?

Yeah, I can understand that and its a tough thing to do in many cases.
For example

A Corsi number is figured by calculating the difference between the number of shots DIRECTED toward the offensive goal versus the number of shots DIRECTED toward the defensive goal while in 5-on-5 skating situations and excluding empty net shots. The key word in that definition is “DIRECTED” and it includes all shots that are on net, miss the net or are blocked. I would guess that the rationale behind this stat is that the larger a team’s discrepancy between shots directed for and against, the more that team is controlling the play.

So in relation to his teammates and the players he played against consistently, Backlund controlled the pace of the game in a positive direction (towards the opposition's net). However, it obviously a statistic that can be manipulated by many different variables and is tough to compare league wide, team to team.

If you want to compare him to a player like Sean Couturier for example, who is widely lauded for his defensive abilities (albeit on a below average team this year), Backlund blows him out of the water in most aspects. Mikael is far better in the faceoff circle, throws more hits, gets more takeaways, blocks more shots, plays against similar competition, and drives the play forward at a better pace. In saying that Backlund is not relied upon defensively by Hartley as much as Couturier is by Laviolette. Couturier averages top ten PK minutes league wide, and starts in significantly less offensive zone starts. So you could make the argument that because of those two variables that Couturier is given less of an opportunity than Backlund to advance the play forward.

If we are comparing Backlund league wide with these statistics, here is what they would look like.

Mikael Backlund ranked tied for 46th in the league amongst forwards with a QOC of 0.57 (Couturier 42nd with 0.59)
Mikael Backlund ranked 60th in the league amongst forwards in relative corsi with 9.7 (Sean Couturier 154th with 2.1)
Mikael Backlund ranked 147th in the league amongst forwards in on ice corsi with 2.14 (Sean Couturier 257th with -4.24)
Mikael Backlund ranked 293rd in the league in offensive zone starts with 45.4% (Sean Couturier 384th with 32.1%)
Mikael Backlund ranked 93rd in the league in offensive zone start finishes with 52.7%, only five of those 92 players ahead of him had less offensive zone starts than he did. (Sean Couturier 351st with 44.7%)
Mikael Backlund ranked 189th amongst forwards in ES TOI/G with 13:19.
Mikael Backlund ranked 239th amongst forwards in PP TOI/G with 1:23.
Mikael Backlund's 2.75 shots per game would have put him tied for 37th in the league among forwards had he played all 48 games.
Mikael Backlund's 0.875 takeaways per game would have put him tied for 8th in the league among forwards had he played all 48 games.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Mikael Backlund has a hair length, from forehead to neck, of 16.948 inches.
Mikael Backlund BEATS ERIK KARLSSON in hair length by 0.104 inches.
Mikael Backlund's hair allows him to be 34% more aerodynamic on the ice than the second best guy Kris Letang, who has a 5% lead on Erik Karlsson.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Mikael Backlund has a hair length, from forehead to neck, of 16.948 inches.
Mikael Backlund BEATS ERIK KARLSSON in hair length by 0.104 inches.
Mikael Backlund's hair allows him to be 34% more aerodynamic on the ice than the second best guy Kris Letang, who has a 5% lead on Erik Karlsson.

I was just about to get to these.. I just needed more time.

 

[MarkGio]

Mikael Backlund has a hair length, from forehead to neck, of 16.948 inches.
Mikael Backlund BEATS ERIK KARLSSON in hair length by 0.104 inches.
Mikael Backlund's hair allows him to be 34% more aerodynamic on the ice than the second best guy Kris Letang, who has a 5% lead on Erik Karlsson.

Ok, I'm convinced. He's our new number one centre. If he has better stats than Karlsson, he's our guy.

 

[Volica]

As I understand it, it is comparing how he compares against his competition in comparison with his teammates.

I seriously laughed out loud with this one.

Yo Dawg!
I heard you like comparisons, so I compared your comparisons, so you can compare comparisons while you compare!

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Has anyone watched the movie "Trouble With the Curve"?

I like Corsi numbers to, but they are very subjective. They're an interesting stat, but I still rely more on what I see on the ice. Backlund took some good steps this year, but I'd take Couturier over him any day. And I know HLM wasn't trying to say Backlund is the better player, he was just illustrating a player comparison.