Player Discussion: Patrik Laine Part VII: Eliitti! - Mod Warning Post #79

[Psych0dad]

Laine is a Point per game monster at 19 years old playing in an awful line.

He could be a 1.4 pts per game player with Chef. Still disgustingly under utilized.

That's what needs to be changed in the first two lines. Give Little what he needs, which is Wheeler. Laine will match and outperform Wheelers production in first line.

Hell, I wish we could have Laine-chef-wheeler first line just to get maximum out of 29 but Ehlers needs a different center too to be efficient.

 

[Sperss1997]

Laine is a Point per game monster at 19 years old playing in an awful line.

He could be a 1.4 pts per game player with Chef. Still disgustingly under utilized.

That's what needs to be changed in the first two lines. Give Little what he needs, which is Wheeler. Laine will match and outperform Wheelers production in first line.

Hell, I wish we could have Laine-chef-wheeler first line just to get maximum out of 29 but Ehlers needs a different center too to be efficient.

Laine 1.4 ppg player.... some ppl...

 

[PhilJets]

Laine 1.4 ppg player.... some ppl...

Laine is the one

I think he is a 1.0 - 1.2 point a game player if max utilize properly.
Then 0.8 - 1.0 as we see him now.

 

[grieves]

Laine is a Point per game monster at 19 years old playing in an awful line.

He could be a 1.4 pts per game player with Chef. Still disgustingly under utilized.

That's what needs to be changed in the first two lines. Give Little what he needs, which is Wheeler. Laine will match and outperform Wheelers production in first line.

Hell, I wish we could have Laine-chef-wheeler first line just to get maximum out of 29 but Ehlers needs a different center too to be efficient.

With the increase in scoring league-wide, I can see that happening. Laine and Chef are just something else. It's good night, sweet prince for the league if they are paired up.

And for the Leaf fans spilling into this thread, don't worry. Matthews is good too.

 

[BB88]

Laine is a Point per game monster at 19 years old playing in an awful line.

He could be a 1.4 pts per game player with Chef. Still disgustingly under utilized.

That's what needs to be changed in the first two lines. Give Little what he needs, which is Wheeler. Laine will match and outperform Wheelers production in first line.

Hell, I wish we could have Laine-chef-wheeler first line just to get maximum out of 29 but Ehlers needs a different center too to be efficient.

This is exactly what we don't need and reason why those Laine is not that good threads are quality threads.

 

[grieves]

This is exactly what we don't need and reason why those Laine is not that good threads are quality threads.

Who cares?

Laine was PPG player last year with Scheifele 56 games in. He had very diminished powerplay production. Scoring was lower than now.

Laine is now a year older and a year better, the powerplay is working, league-wide scoring is up, and Scheifele is as good as ever. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "he could be 1.4 PPG player". He absolutely could, no question about it. Might not be, but definitely could be.

 

[BB88]

Who cares?

Laine was PPG player last year with Scheifele 56 games in. He had very diminished powerplay production. Scoring was lower than now.

Laine is now a year older and a year better, the powerplay is working, league-wide scoring is up, and Scheifele is as good as ever. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "he could be 1.4 PPG player". He absolutely could, no question about it.

He really wouldn't be a 115 point player this year.

Or have you already forgotten his 1st 10 games of the season, he's not even ppg this season so far.

 

[grieves]

He really wouldn't be a 115 point player this year.

Or have you already forgotten his 1st 10 games of the season, he's not even ppg this season so far.

I think you missed the part about playing with Scheifele, that is kind of a key point here.

 

[BB88]

I think you missed the part about playing with Scheifele, that is kind of a key point here.

No I certainly did not.

115 points is in the race of best player in the league.
Laine couldn't win a single puck race in the 1st 10 games or so, his passing was way off, his hands were way off. Those problems would have still excisted with Scheifele.

We'd be more likely looking at a potential 90 point season rather than 115 point season.

 

[grieves]

No I certainly did not.

115 points is in the race of best player in the league.
Laine couldn't win a single puck race in the 1st 10 games or so, his passing was way off, his hands were way off. Those problems would have still excisted with Scheifele.

We'd be more likely looking at a potential 90 point season rather than 115 point season.

Whatever his problems were, I'm sure Scheif would have still given him plenty of looks. Laine does not need many. Little set him up once during those 10 games, and Laine scored.

A lot of the criticism was because of people did not yet realize how awful ELL is offensively, and the PP was a disaster as well. Laine was still playing a defensively very sound game.

I'm gonna disagree with you on this one.

 

[BB88]

Whatever his problems were, I'm sure Scheif would have still given him plenty of looks. Laine does not need many. Little set him up once during those 10 games, and Laine scored.

A lot of the criticism was because of people did not yet realize how awful ELL is offensively, and the PP was a disaster as well. Laine was still playing a defensively very sound game.

I'm gonna disagree with you on this one.

Go ahead, and I'll say again these are the reasons why those main board threads are quality.

McDavid scored 100 points with Drai, was on a different planet to Laine and Laine is supposed to be able to score 15 points more than last years McDavid with his issues.

Little didn't make that 2nd line look bad at the start of season, all 3 were just simply bad and I doubt Laine could have kept up with Scheifele. Laine's defensive game was to throw the puck out the moment he got it. He did absolutely nothing at the start of season.

 

[grieves]

Go ahead, and I'll say again these are the reasons why those main board threads are quality.

McDavid scored 100 points with Drai, was on a different planet to Laine and Laine is supposed to be able to score 15 points more than last years McDavid with his issues.

Little didn't make that 2nd line look bad at the start of season, all 3 were just simply bad and I doubt Laine could have kept up with Scheifele. Laine's defensive game was to throw the puck out the moment he got it. He did absolutely nothing at the start of season.

Why are you talking about McDavid? Can't you respond to the actual arguments? We are talking about Laine and Scheifele, and Laine was already a PPG player last year with him, until they were separated. And that is with diminished PP production. Just think about it for yourself, instead of worrying about some idiots on the main boards.

As I said, Little set-up Laine ONCE during that time, and Laine scored. There is a significant reason to believe Scheifele would have set him up more. Scheif is a great playmaker. Little has different strengths. Little is great on the cycle, but Laine is great on the rush, and so is Chef.

Both Laine's and Scheifele's production is greatly diminished when they are separated, and that is an easily verifiable fact.

 

[Brominator]

If the objective of the season was to get Laine as many points as possible, then of course you put him with Scheif.

However the Jets objective for the season is to get into the playoffs and beyond. CSW line is rolling and so is the team. 1 regulation loss is our last 13 games. Who cares if Laine is being underutilized?

Even Laine's own words prior to the season (paraphrasing): If I don't score a lot and we make the playoffs Im happy. If I score 50 and we don't make the playoffs I'm not happy.

Laine has a long career ahead of him and I'm positive he'll have plenty of time with Scheif as his centre, and he'll certainly challenge for Rocket Richard trophies throughout his career.

But right now, the team is rolling and it's time to be a good soldier.

 

[grieves]

If the objective of the season was to get Laine as many points as possible, then of course you put him with Scheif.

However the Jets objective for the season is to get into the playoffs and beyond. CSW line is rolling and so is the team. 1 regulation loss is our last 13 games. Who cares if Laine is being underutilized?

Even Laine's own words prior to the season (paraphrasing): If I don't score a lot and we make the playoffs Im happy. If I score 50 and we make the playoffs I'm not happy.

Laine has a long career ahead of him and I'm positive he'll have plenty of time with Scheif add his centre, and he'll certainly challenge for Rocket Richard trophies throughout his career.

But right now, the team is rolling and it's time to be a good soldier.

The top-6 is not really rolling though. This team is a great team, and it is winning, but the top-6 is definitely off in my opinion.

Winning is not a reason to stay complacent and not try to be the best you can be.

 

[BB88]

Why are you talking about McDavid? Can't you respond to the actual arguments? We are talking about Laine and Scheifele, and Laine was already a PPG player last year with him, until they were separated. And that is with diminished PP production. Just think about it for yourself, instead of worrying about some idiots on the main boards.

As I said, Little set-up Laine ONCE during that time, and Laine scored. There is a significant reason to believe Scheifele would have set him up more. Scheif is a great playmaker. Little has different strengths. Little is great on the cycle, but Laine is great on the rush, and so is Chef.

Both Laine's and Scheifele's production is greatly diminished when they are separated, and that is an easily verifiable fact.

It's just impossible to talk with some of the Laine believers.

Why was I talking about McDavid? I don't know, maybe because he had the most points in the league last year (100) and looked miles, miles better than Laine while scoring those 100 points.

Laine is on pace for 65 points, it's been getting better but that's way off from 115 point pace you are predicting as possible for this year, simply by changing Little with Scheifele.

Laine was abysmal at the start of season, he wasn't that because of Little, he was bad because of himself. But of course that can't be true and it must be Little's fault.
If you want to hit 115 points you have to be one of the best players in the league and can't afford a single bad stretch. Laine isn't even close to being one of the best players in the league.

 

[grieves]

It's just impossible to talk with some of the Laine believers.

Why was I talking about McDavid? I don't know, maybe because he had the most points in the league last year (100) and looked miles, miles better than Laine while scoring those 100 points.

Laine is on pace for 65 points, it's been getting better but that's way off from 115 point pace you are predicting as possible for this year, simply by changing Little with Scheifele.

Laine was abysmal at the start of season, he wasn't that because of Little, he was bad because of himself. But of course that can't be true and it must be Little's fault.
If you want to hit 115 points you have to be one of the best players in the league and can't afford a single bad stretch. Laine isn't even close to being one of the best players in the league.

I like it when you start talking about how impossible it is to talk with Laine believers. It means you have to start resorting to that kind of petty BS so you must see your own arguments as weak.

If you don't understand the concept that Scheifele would have set up Laine more than once during 10 games, then we are indeed going to have difficulties. I'm trying to be as clear with my points as possible, but it seems I'm not doing a good enough job.

We are not talking about overall game, we are talking strictly about offensive production. If you don't think Scheifele could have set up Laine more than once (or the other way around), then so be it, but I think that is just a weird opinion. Also, 10 games does not a season make.

Again, we are talking about Laine and Scheifele and the production that is already there. It's not some grand speculation. The data is there. McDavid can do whatever he likes, but it won't have an effect on Laine and Scheifele.

Tell me again how it is impossible to talk to Laine believers, you are making a great case here.

And let's not forget that your argument is that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for Laine to reach 1.4 PPG with Chef. No one said it would be a sure thing.

 

[Hokinaittii]

115 points is a reach this soon into his career but I think if Laine and Scheifele would have played together since Game 1, no doubt he would be riding close to PPG, probably even slightly above that.

Scheifele is just that good. He can find you open better than most centers out there. And as we all know, even Laine who is having an off-day, can still convert those chances almost better than anyone in the league. That's how the points would keep coming. But it's another story whether forcing Scheifele and Laine to play together for the sake of points, would have been beneficial for the team.

I believe this year will be a good lesson for Laine for him to fully understand that he will be even more valuable player in the future if he focuses on his two way game this year and finds different ways to score other than just finding an open spot and sniping one home. Even if it hurts his point production.

 

[Ippenator]

Go ahead, and I'll say again these are the reasons why those main board threads are quality.

McDavid scored 100 points with Drai, was on a different planet to Laine and Laine is supposed to be able to score 15 points more than last years McDavid with his issues.

Little didn't make that 2nd line look bad at the start of season, all 3 were just simply bad and I doubt Laine could have kept up with Scheifele. Laine's defensive game was to throw the puck out the moment he got it. He did absolutely nothing at the start of season.

You seem to forget that ELL was just as simply bad in about twenty games of last season. After pretty good three first games the whole line was a complete disaster in exactly the same way for the last 15 games of the season. I don’t think it is just a coincidence that both Laine’s and Ehler’s production has taken a complete nosedive when they have been playing with Little instead of Scheifele.

And no, Laine was not all the first 10 games just rusty because of himself. When a line is really working very bad together, it just simply drags down each player’s play considerably. Honestly I still don’t get it that Little is defended so eagerly, and at the same time North Americans always emphasize how the center is such an important and crucial player for the team. If it really is so, then Little is really a bad number 2 center. Yes, he is pretty good defensively, but offensively he is a complete joke at the moment. If you are supposed to be a good number two center, you should be able to drive your line and do good playmaking. Little can’t do either at all, so his place should obviously not be in the second line at the moment.

I’m practically sure that if Roslovic would be called up and given the spot to center the second line, Laine’s and Ehlers’s production would go already substantially up. Unfortunately we will most probably not see if this could happen, as Maurice does not have the courage to do this kind of moves. Laine will definitely be absolutely great when he gets a center that can do all what a second line center should be able to do. He is for God’s sake scoring already close to PPG pace even in a completely dysfunctional line with a center that is completely unable to help his wingers offensively.

 

[grieves]

115 points is a reach this soon into his career but I think if Laine and Scheifele would have played together since Game 1, no doubt he would be riding close to PPG, probably even slightly above that.

Scheifele is just that good. He can find you open better than most centers out there. And as we all know, even Laine who is having an off-day, can still convert those chances almost better than anyone in the league. That's how the points would keep coming. But it's another story whether forcing Scheifele and Laine to play together for the sake of points, would have been beneficial for the team.

I believe this year will be a good lesson for Laine for him to fully understand that he will be even more valuable player in the future if he focuses on his two way game this year and finds different ways to score other than just finding an open spot and sniping one home. Even if it hurts his point production.

That would mean that Laine's production would not increase from basically the situation it is in now, because he already is fairly close to PPG. The data indicates a massive boost in production when paired up with Scheifele so there is a bit of a problem there.

If it's a good idea or not, that is a different story. I think it is though. I think Laine can work on his game, even when playing with Scheifele. He needs to start doing what he is going to be doing to get very good at it.

 

[thunder16]

I think this kind of situation leads in practically every case to the first passer to get an assist too. I think that is how the rule is, but does someone know about this accurately? I’m just basing this on something I heard a long time ago, and have seen happen all the time in games.

Wrong, it's only 2 passes for an assist not 4!

 

[BB88]

My head hurts too much here.

From 65 pace to 115 pace just by changing his C, well you've convinced me

115 point player is one of the best players in the league, if not the best even if his 2way game isn't elite. Laine is very very far from that today.

And again, Laine didn't win a single puck race at the start of season, his hands& passing were way off. No matter how some want those weren't on Little/2nd line clicking. Laine didn't skate for 6months and focused on non ice training. That's on him.

If my arguments are weak it shouldn't be too difficult to tell how Laine is among the best(top3) players in the World.

 

[Duke749]

How is Schief supposed to set up Laine when up until recently all he did was give up possession?

 

[Ippenator]

Wrong, it's only 2 passes for an assist not 4!

Sorry dude, but you are wrong, there is no such definition as you claim. It is about who has straightforwardly touched the puck and passed to the next one in the chain. If the opponent doesn’t touch the puck in between then the last two players touching the puck and passing it forward to the goalscorer get assists. There is no official pass limits in between them.

 

[Ippenator]

How is Schief supposed to set up Laine when up until recently all he did was give up possession?

Possession schmosession. Corsi has nothing at all to do with the real meaningful puck possession and good scoring chances. A completely useless stat just by itself. And not very useful until you have tons of other kind of needed information.

 

[grieves]

My head hurts too much here.

From 65 pace to 115 pace just by changing his C, well you've convinced me

115 point player is one of the best players in the league, if not the best even if his 2way game isn't elite. Laine is very very far from that today.

And again, Laine didn't win a single puck race at the start of season, his hands& passing were way off. No matter how some want those weren't on Little/2nd line clicking. Laine didn't skate for 6months and focused on non ice training. That's on him.

If my arguments are weak it shouldn't be too difficult to tell how Laine is among the best(top3) players in the World.

You are not getting it (probably on purpose). You are arguing that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for that to happen, and I have clearly stated why I think it is POSSIBLE, maybe not likely but certainly possible. There is clear data that shows what happens when you "switch c's" as you vaguely put it. Some luck on top and it is POSSIBLE.

I think Laine will be the best player in the world, but I am not certain of it. The kid is scoring goals at TWICE as efficiently than an AVERAGE NHL'er does. Just think about that for a second. Let it really sink in. Add to that his playmaking skills, and now his upgraded defensive game, and voilà.

You are jumping on "he COULD be a 1.4 PPG player", and then calling for help when your arguments are contradicted.