Player Discussion: Patrik Laine Part VII: Eliitti! - Mod Warning Post #79

[Aavco Cup]

Well theses aren't as nice as Harmonica1's but I thought I'd give it a shot. Gifs grabbed from Hokinaittii's YouTube highlights (Hokinaittii)
2017-11-18 - Goal 10 vs. Devils

2017-11-16 - Shootout goal vs. Flyers

2017-11-11 - Goal 9 vs. Coyotes

2017-11-10 - Goal 8 vs. Golden Knights

2017-11-06 - Goal 7 vs. Stars

2017-11-06 - Goal 7 vs. Stars, alternate view

I'll post a few more later...

This reminds me of last years thread

 

[DashingDane]

Who said they are not improving. I will be pretty stupid not to think .

I'm commenting on people stating, no change needed since we are winning. There are two kinds of change, for improvement to further elevate your business or in hockey your team. Or change for the heck of it or personal gain, and it produces negative impact to the business.

As combo
Wheeler and Little was proven , 5 years now?
Schiefele and Laine is also proven though small %.


If your a business man, if you are selling 10 breads a day this month. Don't you want to sell 12 breads a day next time?
Or will you be contended to sell just 10 breads a day, because it good already for you.

the 2nd line:
As a whole they have produced I think 2 goals so far 5 on 5? in how many games. When the scoring goes into dry spell, how many games can Helly keep the door shut and provide stellar goaltending of 2 goals or less a game?

What's wrong with trying to improve MORE and believe the team will get EVEN MUCH better? And based it on facts and records, I think some of us, with the same proposal has basis? or no?

PK has improved more so than 2nd line.

Again - in my post. I mentioned the obvious switch by the top 2 C as it is proven already and safer bet.
PK, the coach has been trying to change. Hence different personnel being use.

GO JETS GO!!!

Every move has a reaction. Switch the C’s and there is a good chance two lines improve but there is also a chance that both of them fall apart. Why risk that when we are consistently winning? Let’s say we are consistently winning by one goal. If we change the players there is a chance we win by 2 but might loose the consistency. By not changing we don’t take that risk. At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter if we win 1-0 or 10-0. It all equals 2pts. At the moment there is literally no move to make that wouldn’t break up another lines chemistry. If the 2nd line is so unhappy playing together they start letting in a couple of soft ones but as long as the Jets are winning and they aren’t hurting the score there is no reason to switch anything.

Would you be asking for the same if ESL was on fire and CLW was struggling?

 

[portamoral]

which is odd considering they are all talented players. If we want Laine to succeed he has to learn to drive offence on his own. Relying on Scheifele to pad his stats is not the answer to any of our problems.

laine playing with little is not ideal no matter how much he drives offence on his own.

laine "relying on scheifele" is ideal, since both of their production sky rockets when together. whether he drives the offence or not is irrelevant at that point. sure it's nice, but he is a pure sniper so it's not even necessary. he needs a set up man more than anything and that is scheifele and only scheifele.

if he scored 60 goals this year playing with scheif i could not care less who's the one driving the offence as long as points are being put up. you want to call it leeching off mark, but i call it chemistry and the two have it in spades. laine makes scheifele a better player and vice versa.

why would you handicap your biggest weapon? that's what we're doing right now. patrik laine playing to his potential makes the jets a better team.

 

[Psych0dad]

laine playing with little is not ideal no matter how much he drives offence on his own.

laine "relying on scheifele" is ideal, since both of their production sky rockets when together. whether he drives the offence or not is irrelevant at that point. sure it's nice, but he is a pure sniper so it's not even necessary. he needs a set up man more than anything and that is scheifele and only scheifele.

if he scored 60 goals this year playing with scheif i could not care less who's the one driving the offence as long as points are being put up. you want to call it leeching off mark, but i call it chemistry and the two have it in spades. laine makes scheifele a better player and vice versa.

why would you handicap your biggest weapon? that's what we're doing right now. patrik laine playing to his potential makes the jets a better team.

Some people get it. My faith in humanity has been rejuvenated.

Let him practice driving offense with Scheifele. There's nothing wrong with getting the maximum out of him while "in training to drive offense". I cannot see a positive argument made for handcuffing his offensive potential. You learn best with the best.

 

[Psych0dad]

Would you be asking for the same if ESL was on fire and CLW was struggling?

Yes. The idea is to maximize output of all of the lines. Need to find optimal combinations for that. It requires testing so you have the answers

 

[Daximus]

laine playing with little is not ideal no matter how much he drives offence on his own.

laine "relying on scheifele" is ideal, since both of their production sky rockets when together. whether he drives the offence or not is irrelevant at that point. sure it's nice, but he is a pure sniper so it's not even necessary. he needs a set up man more than anything and that is scheifele and only scheifele.

if he scored 60 goals this year playing with scheif i could not care less who's the one driving the offence as long as points are being put up. you want to call it leeching off mark, but i call it chemistry and the two have it in spades. laine makes scheifele a better player and vice versa.

why would you handicap your biggest weapon? that's what we're doing right now. patrik laine playing to his potential makes the jets a better team.

The truth is everyone plays better with Scheifele, the bigger truth is Scheifele does not play better with everyone. Some players help him realize a much bigger potential. And no Patrik Laine playing to his potential does not make the Jets a better team. Everyone playing to their potential makes the Jets a better team. You do know Scheif is playing at a 47 goal, 90 point pace with Wheeler and Connor right? Why do you think that is?

 

[Psych0dad]

The truth is everyone plays better with Scheifele, the bigger truth is Scheifele does not play better with everyone. Some players help him realize a much bigger potential. And no Patrik Laine playing to his potential does not make the Jets a better team. Everyone playing to their potential makes the Jets a better team. You do know Scheif is playing at a 47 goal, 90 point pace with Wheeler and Connor right? Why do you think that is?

Because he is that good and if statistics from last season are of any use then those would suggest he would be on an even better pace if he had been playing with Laine.

Now we don't know because it hasn't been given a chance yet.

If it made chef a 110 pts player and Laine a 60 goal scorer, what exactly are the Jets losing in that?

 

[Gm0ney]

2017-11-04 Goal 6 vs Canadiens

2017-11-02 Goal 5 vs. Stars

2017-10-20 Goal 4 vs. Wild

2017-10-20 Goal 3 vs. Wild

2017-10-12 Goal 2 @ Canucks

2017-10-07 Goal 1 @ Flames

And now we're all caught up...

 

[Adam da bomb]

I don't want the Jets to win 10-0 I had so much fun watching the jets come back more in the Philly game than the Jersey game.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

The truth is everyone plays better with Scheifele, the bigger truth is Scheifele does not play better with everyone. Some players help him realize a much bigger potential. And no Patrik Laine playing to his potential does not make the Jets a better team. Everyone playing to their potential makes the Jets a better team. You do know Scheif is playing at a 47 goal, 90 point pace with Wheeler and Connor right? Why do you think that is?

That pace is not much better than last season's. Especially when we all know he wont be shooting 30% for the rest of the season. With out doing any actual math to confirm this, I'd say when his sh% regresses to normal numbers his pace might actually be worse than last season

edit. nvm, that 90 point pace must be on 5v5 or something. Well the sh% will still go down a lot. The same thing with Connor who is shooting 17%. Wheeler is basically the only one in the line who isnt shooting unsustainably high numbers

 

[Halberdier]

Yeah but the tire isn't flat. The car is rolling along and we have a full tank of gas and we aren't stopping for piss breaks either.

Really? One tire has been pretty much flat from the start of the season, but car is still moving, you are right on that. Team spirit is high and PP is OK.

Level of 5-on-5 production by ELL is simply unacceptable. Throw in just anyone to try to fix that one flat tire. Don't break CLW if thats too risky, but switch Laine, Elhers or Little with one of these: Perreault, Copp, Armia. OK, after the last game you don't want to break the PHA connection ;-),

Apart from 2 or at max 3 goals, ELL has produced nothing _together_. I remember Little and Ehlers doing a sweet takeaway goals and Kulikov feeding Laine, but ELL still sucks.

Ps. has anyone checked Scheifele's GF60 with Laine and without Laine this season? It's true that they haven't been together too much, but I think they have been producing nicely when they are, including Mark's season opening goal and the last minute equalizer couple of games before.

 

[RageQuit77]

@Gmoney: Great work with those GIFs! Keep up making them in the future too.

Tho, maybe they should be put in as collapsibles for smoother thread functioning. At least I have slight delays in page loading because of them.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

@Gmoney: Great work with those GIFs! Keep up making them in the future too.

Yep! Very nice break from the 20+ pages of CSW vs. ELL. It has essentially completely thread-hijacked this thread.

Going forward: someone should please create a thread devoted to the subject if they want to continue the 1st / 2nd line discussion.

 

[kelsier]

Because he is that good and if statistics from last season are of any use then those would suggest he would be on an even better pace if he had been playing with Laine.

Now we don't know because it hasn't been given a chance yet.

If it made chef a 110 pts player and Laine a 60 goal scorer, what exactly are the Jets losing in that?

I absolutely cannot but agree with this. The kid scored at ~0,5 GPG pace at his rookie campaign despite of for reasons unknown was being kept out of first powerplay unit (see how that is going today) in a one of the worse powerplay teams in the NHL. I have no doubts he would be on at least 50 goal pace even today considering the past chemistry and what we know about the two given different circumstances and a different coach. I don't think there's another forward on the team who can come close to that number and I cannot see how it would hurt the team to maximize the offensive output from Patrik. Also he has shown he can be trusted at his own zone so that cannot be used as an excuse. No more than using the last year's GA numbers against lets say ESL line, when the entire team was leaking from inside out. You simply cannot know until you try and they haven't been given a single tryout so far. I'm not expecting Maurice to suddenly wake up to this world and make the adjustments. What I do hope is however that by Laine's third year we no longer see games where he plays 13 or 14 minutes, but rather he is slotted in a position to score with the best of them. Either by being placed and paired up with Scheifele or by creating two equally good top lines with ~equal minutes. I just find it hard to fathom how a player who scores on a top 5 pace (GPG league wide) suddenly is being leashed while the team should be doing everything possible to get the most goals out of him. Also I don't see how Laine's increased production would not be aligned with the team's own best interests (outside his contract negotiations anyway).

One goal from the second line hasn't changed anything really. When you try 100x minutes, eventually one attempt is abound to go in. The team is winning which is still great though, but I see the utilization being based on the years you have "served" under Maurice instead of running lines based on the most logical and rational choices, and I'm still thinking it's only matter of time when things start to backfire. If he's being made to wonder around in the swamp with players he doesn't mesh up with and vice versa nor being given one single chance to play on his natural wing, I hope he gets a good reminder when it's time to enter the negotiation table. After all, I don't have much doubts about Laine's ability to have a monster sophomore season if given first line minutes and line mates he had chemistry with.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Going forward: someone should please create a thread devoted to the subject if they want to continue the 1st / 2nd line discussion.

I'll quote to put it out there one more time, then start deleting posts.

Create a new thread if you want to continue the 1st vs. 2nd line / Schief vs. Little pairing. It leaves no room for any other discussion in this thread.

You're welcome to continue the discussion, but please do it in a dedicated thread.