Player Discussion: Patrik Laine Part VII: Eliitti! - Mod Warning Post #79

[The Russian Rocket]

Patrik Laine 1st season (2016-2017)
13.10.2016 vs. Carolina Hurricanes: goal (1) + assist (1)
19.10.2016 vs. Toronto Maple Leafs: 3 goals (2, 3, 4)
25.10.2016 vs. Dallas Stars: assist (2)
27.10.2016 vs. Dallas Stars: 2 goals (5, 6)
04.11.2016 vs. Detroit Red Wings: goal (7) + assist (3)
06.11.2016 vs. New York Rangers: goal (8)
08.11.2016 vs. Dallas Stars: 3 goals (9, 10 ,11) + assist (4)
10.11.2016 vs. Arizona Coyotes: assist (5)
15.11.2016 vs. Chicago Blackhawks: goal (12)

Total: 12 + 5 = 17 pts (points in 9 of 19 games)
Multiple point games: 5


Patrik Laine 2nd season (2017-2018)
04.10.2017 vs. Toronto Maple Leafs: assist (1)
07.10.2017 vs. Calgary Flames: goal (1)
12.10.2017 vs. Vancouver Canucks: goal (2)
14.10.2017 vs. Carolina Hurricanes: assist (2)
21.10.2017 vs. Minnesota Wild: 2 goals (3, 4)
02.11.2017 vs. Dallas Stars: goal (5)
04.11.2017 vs. Montreal Canadiens: goal (6)
06.11.2017 vs. Dallas Stars: goal (7)
10.11.2017 vs. Las Vegas Golden Knights: goal (8)
11.11.2017 vs. Arizona Coyotes: goal (9) + assist (3)
14.11.2017 vs. Arizona Coyotes: assist (4)
16.11.2017 vs. Philadelphia Flyers: assist (5) + shootout goal
18.11.2017 vs. New Jersey Devils: goal (10)

Total: 10 + 5 = 15 pts in 19 games (points in 13 of 19 games)
Multiple point games: 2

Interesting fact that in the first 19 games this season Laine has produced more steadily than in the first 19 games of his rookie season, but also has lesser multipoint games.

 

[Ippenator]

Patrik Laine 1st season (2016-2017)
13.10.2016 vs. Carolina Hurricanes: goal (1) + assist (1)
19.10.2016 vs. Toronto Maple Leafs: 3 goals (2, 3, 4)
25.10.2016 vs. Dallas Stars: assist (2)
27.10.2016 vs. Dallas Stars: 2 goals (5, 6)
04.11.2016 vs. Detroit Red Wings: goal (7) + assist (3)
06.11.2016 vs. New York Rangers: goal (8)
08.11.2016 vs. Dallas Stars: 3 goals (9, 10 ,11) + assist (4)
10.11.2016 vs. Arizona Coyotes: assist (5)
15.11.2016 vs. Chicago Blackhawks: goal (12)

Total: 12 + 5 = 17 pts (points in 9 of 19 games)
Multiple point games: 5


Patrik Laine 2nd season (2017-2018)
04.10.2017 vs. Toronto Maple Leafs: assist (1)
07.10.2017 vs. Calgary Flames: goal (1)
12.10.2017 vs. Vancouver Canucks: goal (2)
14.10.2017 vs. Carolina Hurricanes: assist (2)
21.10.2017 vs. Minnesota Wild: 2 goals (3, 4)
02.11.2017 vs. Dallas Stars: goal (5)
04.11.2017 vs. Montreal Canadiens: goal (6)
06.11.2017 vs. Dallas Stars: goal (7)
10.11.2017 vs. Las Vegas Golden Knights: goal (8)
11.11.2017 vs. Arizona Coyotes: goal (9) + assist (3)
14.11.2017 vs. Arizona Coyotes: assist (4)
16.11.2017 vs. Philadelphia Flyers: assist (5) + shootout goal
18.11.2017 vs. New Jersey Devils: goal (10)

Total: 10 + 5 = 15 pts in 19 games (points in 13 of 19 games)
Multiple point games: 2

Interesting fact that in the first 19 games this season Laine has produced more steadily than in the first 19 games of his rookie season, but also has lesser multipoint games.

I think that it is simply because he is already now a better player than last season, but playing with an offensively much worse center than he played most of last season.

 

[Duke749]

I still choose to believe in rather official stats than people whom see what they want to see. You seriously don’t understand what Wheeler has to do with this? The point was exactly that Laine is a very talented player offensively, and that he could score at least on the same pace with Wheeler is doing now, if he got the same chance in the 1st line. And the point was to show that yes Laine has made definitely some mistakes, but still not in the amount as the very much appreciated captain of the team.

This should show that Laine is not as bad defensively or possession wise as some of you constantly try to claim. But your agenda is in fact pretty obvious, as nothing is really accepted as proof. Even facts or comparisons are not allowed, because you have just simply decided that Laine is so bad, although the captain and several other players are worse or around the same level with Laine in defensive play and puck possession. No one has claimed that Laine has not done some mistakes. But to point it out like you are doing constantly, like he is somehow extremely bad and worse than most of the team in these areas, just shows your agenda after all.

There’s nothing truly “official” about those stats, just like hits. It’s completely subjective. That’s why they can’t be taken seriously. They are not tracked the same from arena to arena. Plenty of people can back me on that.

There is no agenda by me or anyone else, just the actual reality.

 

[Couchcaptain]

115 points is a reach this soon into his career but I think if Laine and Scheifele would have played together since Game 1, no doubt he would be riding close to PPG, probably even slightly above that.

Scheifele is just that good. He can find you open better than most centers out there. And as we all know, even Laine who is having an off-day, can still convert those chances almost better than anyone in the league. That's how the points would keep coming. But it's another story whether forcing Scheifele and Laine to play together for the sake of points, would have been beneficial for the team.

I believe this year will be a good lesson for Laine for him to fully understand that he will be even more valuable player in the future if he focuses on his two way game this year and finds different ways to score other than just finding an open spot and sniping one home. Even if it hurts his point production.

Do you honestly believe he would have only a couple more points playing with Scheif than he has now playing in total disaster of a line. Im pretty sure he would have 25+ points at this point. Even with his abysmal play in 10 first games of the season. He is already a top 5 player in the league IMO, when speaking purely about finishing plays. He is world class finisher, even with his weaknesses.
Otherwise i agree with you.

 

[Psych0dad]

Laine 1.4 ppg player.... some ppl...

He was close to that for 2 months this year when he lead the league in points per game and goals per game and that was at 18. Over 1.3 PPG for 2 months.

No reason to think he couldn't do it now. He has already demonstrated that it is a reasonable and possible.

People pretending it to be outlandish despite evidence and making this about being Finnish is just strange

 

[Psych0dad]

This is exactly what we don't need and reason why those Laine is not that good threads are quality threads.

You don't need a player who can do 1.4 pts or what?

 

[Psych0dad]

If the objective of the season was to get Laine as many points as possible, then of course you put him with Scheif.

However the Jets objective for the season is to get into the playoffs and beyond. CSW line is rolling and so is the team. 1 regulation loss is our last 13 games. Who cares if Laine is being underutilized?

Even Laine's own words prior to the season (paraphrasing): If I don't score a lot and we make the playoffs Im happy. If I score 50 and we don't make the playoffs I'm not happy.

Laine has a long career ahead of him and I'm positive he'll have plenty of time with Scheif as his centre, and he'll certainly challenge for Rocket Richard trophies throughout his career.

But right now, the team is rolling and it's time to be a good soldier.

Who cares if he is under utilized? Those who want the team to be tuned to the max when playoffs start.

Who doesn't want all the pieces to be utilized?

 

[Maukkis]

He was close to that for 2 months this year when he lead the league in points per game and goals per game and that was at 18.

No reason to think he couldn't do it now.

You're the one from Finnish hockey forums who stated that point totals that are unprecedented since god-knows-when are in Laine's reach as soon as this year, right?

You don't need a player who can do 1.4 pts or what?

Laine is on pace for a similar point total as last year, while having taken substantial steps forward at other aspects of his game. His skating has improved by a lot, his defensive game is now much better, and he has shown the ability to create offense by himself, which wasn't the case last year. I've been able to see all of that in just nineteen games, half of which were nothing short of nightmares from Laine. Are you not content with clear improvement?

 

[Psych0dad]

You're the one from Finnish hockey forums who stated that point totals that are unprecedented since god-knows-when are in Laine's reach as soon as this year, right?


Laine is on pace for a similar point total as last year, while having taken substantial steps forward at other aspects of his game. His skating has improved by a lot, his defensive game is now much better, and he has shown the ability to create offense by himself, which wasn't the case last year. I've been able to see all of that in just nineteen games, half of which were nothing short of nightmares from Laine. Are you not content with clear improvement?

Being content stops progress. I'm definitely not content with just this.

And yes I stand by my predictions. I did put a Paul Maurice clause in them because I feared he could be an idiot and do this, not play the best pair the team has.

My predictions were with Chef. With Little, PPG will be hard to obtain for Laine.

 

[Maukkis]

Being content stops progress. I'm definitely not content with just this.

And yes I stand by my predictions. I did put a Paul Maurice clause in them because I feared he could be an idiot and do this, not play the best pair the team has.

My predictions were with Chef. With Little, PPG will be hard to obtain for Laine.

Let me tell you this: if Laine truly becomes what you have often predicted him to become, which is the best player in the world, Bryan Little can not hinder him in any way, shape or form. The best players share multiple traits, one of which is that they improve players around him. If Laine seriously can't reach his full potential with a bonafide 2C who can consistently put up 55-60 points a year, then his potential isn't as high as you'd imagine.

McDavid is producing with Maroon and Caggiula. Crosby has been magical with rookies and inexperienced wingers for the last couple of years, which has resulted in a pair of cups. Karlsson doesn't just stop at improving his defensive partner - he runs the entire unit's offense. How about Patrick Kane, putting up a 106-point season with a rookie (who exploded because of Kane) and an center that was clearly inferior to Little? There are more examples of this, but long story short - Laine is not close to the absolute cream of the crop, and if he ever wants to reach that level, no individual player cannot stand in his way.

 

[Gotaf7]

Do you honestly believe he would have only a couple more points playing with Scheif than he has now playing in total disaster of a line. Im pretty sure he would have 25+ points at this point. Even with his abysmal play in 10 first games of the season. He is already a top 5 player in the league IMO, when speaking purely about finishing plays. He is world class finisher, even with his weaknesses.
Otherwise i agree with you.

se
Top 5 in the league seriously? Not even top 5 on the jets take off your homer glasses!

 

[Couchcaptain]

se
Top 5 in the league seriously? Not even top 5 on the jets take off your homer glasses!

Read the whole post, please. And yes, he is the best finisher on the Jets, by far.

 

[Jeti]

And why do you think he is doing that? I can assure you that him dumping the puck easily definitely has to do with Maurice’s super conservative tactics. That is in fact what most of the team is doing constantly anyway. And why anyway it should be exactly Laine’s main responsibility to be taking care of the puck possession and playmaking? I honestly think that the main role in those areas should still be put on the first and second line centers. Little can’t do anything in those areas or anything to help his wingers maintain the possession better. If Laine and Ehlers would have a true playmaking center, it would for sure affect those areas of their game very positively too.

Blaming the center is getting a bit old. Little has been bad but at some point Laine needs to learn to play below the circles and win some puck battles. He still hangs back and doesn't even pressure in the corners. He'd create a lot more chances for himself if he could do that.

Keeping Laines production down to say 60 instead of 80 points could save the jets about 2 mil per season on a long term deal. That's why you won't see him with scheif and wheels.

I'd be alright with that. I don't want the Jets to end up sunk by some huge contracts before they even really contend.

 

[Psych0dad]

Let me tell you this: if Laine truly becomes what you have often predicted him to become, which is the best player in the world, Bryan Little can not hinder him in any way, shape or form. The best players share multiple traits, one of which is that they improve players around him. If Laine seriously can't reach his full potential with a bonafide 2C who can consistently put up 55-60 points a year, then his potential isn't as high as you'd imagine.

McDavid is producing with Maroon and Caggiula. Crosby has been magical with rookies and inexperienced wingers for the last couple of years, which has resulted in a pair of cups. Karlsson doesn't just stop at improving his defensive partner - he runs the entire unit's offense. How about Patrick Kane, putting up a 106-point season with a rookie (who exploded because of Kane) and an center that was clearly inferior to Little? There are more examples of this, but long story short - Laine is not close to the absolute cream of the crop, and if he ever wants to reach that level, no individual player cannot stand in his way.

Laine is not ready to do that yet. He will be eventually but he isn't physically there yet.

In the meantime we can either get the best out of him using him in the best possible productive way, or we can use the ferrari to pull a plow meant for tractors.

You can keep telling me you're content with the status quo, but that isn't going to change my opinion because I obviously have a different thinking process.

 

[Psych0dad]

I'd be alright with that. I don't want the Jets to end up sunk by some huge contracts before they even really contend.

Jesus.

You'd be alright handcuffing one of the best young talent in the world to save money?

If I was handcuffed like that on purpose I'd walk out after rookie contract and not even take a dump in that teams general direction again.

If that indeed is why they are keeping him chained, then he needs to gtfo.

McDavid wasn't practicing defensive game with plugs. He had 1st line minutes with first line players. When Laine had that, he lead the league for two months in points and goals.

 

[Couchcaptain]

se
Top 5 in the league seriously? Not even top 5 on the jets take off your homer glasses!

Not even top 5 on the Jets, seriously? I get that you hate Laine for some reason, but wow, that's something else.

 

[Festinator]

Jesus.

You'd be alright handcuffing one of the best young talent in the world to save money?

If I was handcuffed like that on purpose I'd walk out after rookie contract and not even take a dump in that teams general direction again.

If that indeed is why they are keeping him chained, then he needs to gtfo.

If people believe this is happening, I truly question their intelligence.

 

[Festinator]

Not even top 5 on the Jets, seriously? I get that you hate Laine for some reason, but wow, that's something else.

Dude, don't come onto the Jets forums with your blatant Laine bias, bashing every player he plays with and then have the audacity to say someone who's been a fan of the Jets for years "hates Laine."

 

[Psych0dad]

If people believe this is happening, I truly question their intelligence.

I doubt it. I'm much more willing to believe this is just Paul Maurice being incompetent, than the team management sabotaging their young superstar.
I mean, Ehlers is getting the same treatment and he already extended so it's just a show of bad coaching, not some idiotic savings plan that would poison the well and drive Laine out of town.

 

[Couchcaptain]

Dude, don't come onto the Jets forums with your blatant Laine bias, bashing every player he plays with and then have the audacity to say someone who's been a fan of the Jets for years "hates Laine."

Well to say he is not even top 5 player in the Jets is such a stretch.. that makes you think there is something else. And just to make clear, i haven't been bashing any players.

 

[Gotaf7]

Not even top 5 on the Jets, seriously? I get that you hate Laine for some reason, but wow, that's something else.

Don't hate him at all I want him and more importantly the Jets to succeed. All I see at this point is a one trick pony, way to soft with the puck. He looks like a deer in the headlights for large parts of the game.

 

[Couchcaptain]

Don't hate him at all I want him and more importantly the Jets to succeed. All I see at this point is a one trick pony, way to soft with the puck. He looks like a deer in the headlights for large parts of the game.

Well, that's your opinion, and im fine with that. Needless to say that i massively disagree with you.
But yeah, im not saying he is perfect, still far from it at this point. But the potential is huge.

 

[Psych0dad]

Don't hate him at all I want him and more importantly the Jets to succeed. All I see at this point is a one trick pony, way to soft with the puck. He looks like a deer in the headlights for large parts of the game.

I don't know what you have been watching.

Honestly did not think we'd ever after last season get the one trick pony argument again especially on Jets forum where people are supposedly watching his games. He's also the best playmaker in the team when playing with likeminded center. He is one of the most defensively responsible players in the team and by far the best shooter. And one of the most physical as well, Buff throws more hits but that's because he takes risks.

If you see a one trick pony then I am confident that the problem is your understanding of what you are seeing.

 

[Laineux]

Hard to compare between different positions, but IMO Laine is the 3rd best forward in the Jets at this point. Laine is easily the best goalscorer in the team.

Scheifele and Wheeler are clearly better. I think Laine is better than Ehlers or Little at this point. Yeah, his overall game might not look so impressive always, but he's already a 40 goal scorer, playing with fairly limited ice time and is able to turn non-scoring chances into scoring chances with his shot.

 

[antiqueslivers]

I just wanna see the ESL line again for a cpl of games to see if the people who want it are just wishing for a fantasy or are on to something.