Panarin to the Blackhawks!

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EmeticDonut

Registered User
Oct 7, 2006
4,443
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BWC just makes things up to fit his narrative. It gets more outlandish as he sinks deeper into his obsession of hating Rundblad and I guess now is seeping into hating Bowman. So much anger from a fan of a team that has had as much success as the Hawks have. Bottom line, no one is perfect and mistakes have been made both by Bowman and Q. But the right choices so far have outweighed the bad ones. I can't see the future and neither can anyone else, so instead of getting all apoplectic about stuff that I can't possibly know or even influence, I am just going to see how it all plays out. It's just a game after all. Discussion about it is all fine, but at least try to settle down your biases and stop with revising history.
 

Blue Liner

Registered User
Dec 12, 2009
10,332
3,608
Chicago
BWC just makes things up to fit his narrative. It gets more outlandish as he sinks deeper into his obsession of hating Rundblad and I guess now is seeping into hating Bowman. So much anger from a fan of a team that has had as much success as the Hawks have. Bottom line, no one is perfect and mistakes have been made both by Bowman and Q. But the right choices so far have outweighed the bad ones. I can't see the future and neither can anyone else, so instead of getting all apoplectic about stuff that I can't possibly know or even influence, I am just going to see how it all plays out. It's just a game after all. Discussion about it is all fine, but at least try to settle down your biases and stop with revising history.

Yeah, good luck with that.
 

CPHawksFan

That's Hockey Baby!!
Jun 17, 2011
3,947
96
Crown Point, IN
Yeah, like TBL got Johnson. I mean, it's a rare thing, but it happens. I'm sure there are some other brilliants in the KHL right now, because NHL teams don't scout the league that well.

Maybe this is Stan's plan for the future...find young talent in the KHL for more reasonable prices to plug in around our core group. The Hawks could be an attractive destination due to the chance at winning Cups and the Russian players already on the roster. If they impress at the NHL level, then they can get their payday with another team if the Hawks can't afford to keep them after their ELC's are up with the Hawks.
 

DPHawk

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
1,543
22
BWC just makes things up to fit his narrative. It gets more outlandish as he sinks deeper into his obsession of hating Rundblad and I guess now is seeping into hating Bowman. So much anger from a fan of a team that has had as much success as the Hawks have. Bottom line, no one is perfect and mistakes have been made both by Bowman and Q. But the right choices so far have outweighed the bad ones. I can't see the future and neither can anyone else, so instead of getting all apoplectic about stuff that I can't possibly know or even influence, I am just going to see how it all plays out. It's just a game after all. Discussion about it is all fine, but at least try to settle down your biases and stop with revising history.

You have it backwards, BWC hates Stan which is why he constantly harps on Rundblad.
 

zac

Registered User
Apr 29, 2009
8,484
42
I'll have to try and find it at some point. But I do remeber reading that in 2013 Stan was close to a deal in the middle of the season on Bicks 2mil/2years and McD wanted to hold off until summer for more media attention over the summer months. No one would have had a problem with Bicks remaining on this team at 2x2. Regardless I would bet McD had alot to do with Bickell being brought back aswell. I'm sure he diddnt want a playoff hero walking in free agency.



That was also with the impression that the cap was supposed to go up alot more than it did. Pretty ****** timing honestly.



Uh what? Crawford is in a 3 way tie for the 8th highest paid goaltender in the league and makes only 250k more than leauge starting goaltender median. That was also coming off a Stanley Cup season where he got robbed of a Conn Smythe. That's really not bad. I have zero problem with Crawford getting paid like an average starting goaltender but I guess you're right in the fact that it could have been a year shorter though.

As a comparable:
MAF's hit is 250k less and one more year.
Lehtonen is 100k less and one less year
Cam Ward is 300k more and same length
Mike Smith is 333k less and same length
Jimmy ****ing Howard is 700k less and same length

I'll take Crow at his contract over all of the above. I don't know what you're basing this statement on...



There was just no way we were going to be able to afford Leddy and just about everyone knows that. Tell me how we would be able to afford Leddy's 5.5AAV right now? I mean we won the cup the year we traded him. Who would you have prefered we traded? Sharp? Maybe we don't win the cup if Sharp isn't a part of this team and Leddy is...

Easy.

We had Hayes ready and willing to fill Bickell's spot and while he didn't hit like Bickell, he was a better skater (better fit in transition) and would have saved 3 million right there. You don't lock up a replaceable, expendable player, for a #3-#4 elite PMD defensemen that fills a need. You don't wait for his ELC to expire, you lock him up earlier on a bridge deal on a team friendly cap hit.

When you are an elite team I think you need to get out ahead of things a bit and take some risks on some of your younger guys. Give them some extra coin before the ELCs expire and get them on 4-5 year $3 million deals. Leddy likely could have been had for 2-3 million at that rate.

With T and K I think Stan had all the leverage while Brisson had ****. They are the faces of this franchise and make a **** ton of money in local endorsements. You can't tell me that Stan couldn't have had Toews for $9.5 million and Kane for 8.5-9.0. At 10.5 Kane likely provides overall negative value (slightly) as he isn't as valuable as Toews to justify 13% of the overall cap hit. Obviously the Hawks are willing to spend as much as they can, but that ~1 means a hell of a lot less to them than the 2-2.5 means for icing the best team conceivably possible. The Hawks didn't even get market value let alone a hometown discount.

The Seabrook deal is the worst of them all though. He's declining, a big and slow dman, and on the wrong side of 30. The Hawks also have several intriguing possibilities with TVR, Panarin, TT, etc. that may be better values/players now and going forward. Why would you prematurely spend money on an 8 year deal instead of waiting until the offseason? Not only are the numbers terrible, but Stan may have ****ed himself out of better, younger players in the process. And for what? To lock up the most overrated player on the team until he's 39? The move was terrible and there is absolutely no grounds for defense.

Crawford's contract doesn't look horrendous....now. At the time? He hadn't had consistency at the NHL level and was widely regarded as a mediocre goalie playing in front of an elite defense. Not only had he not proved to be worth that money, I highly doubt teams were lining up to sign Crawford for that term and price. Judging by many of the articles from industry "experts" (at the time), it seemed to be the prevailing feeling as well.
 

HjamSandwich

Registered User
Oct 16, 2010
578
25
Toews and Kane deals should have been frontloaded to get the AAV down.

Stuff like that is how we should be leveraging our financial strength.
 

SAADfather

Registered User
Dec 12, 2014
5,275
152
Easy.
We had Hayes ready and willing to fill Bickell's spot and while he didn't hit like Bickell, he was a better skater (better fit in transition) and would have saved 3 million right there. You don't lock up a replaceable, expendable player, for a #3-#4 elite PMD defensemen that fills a need.

See the problem with that logic is you make it seem like Hayes was 100% going to sign if we hadn't signed Bickell. It was ultimately Hayes that CHOSE he did not want to be here. You continue to put your blame in the wrong person for Hayes departure. I wouldn't be surprised if Hayes wanted a guarantee that he would be in the NHL all season and that's just something that Stan was not willing to give, nor should he. Now who knows, maybe if we dont sign Bickell Hayes does stay. But that's only a possibility. You are making it seem like a definitive to support your narrative. And I said how could we have afforded Leddy at the time, not go back a in time a year and a half to make Leddy work. So again to the original point, Stan did not "**** up" with dealing Leddy...

You don't wait for his ELC to expire, you lock him up earlier on a bridge deal on a team friendly cap hit.
When you are an elite team I think you need to get out ahead of things a bit and take some risks on some of your younger guys. Give them some extra coin before the ELCs expire and get them on 4-5 year $3 million deals. Leddy likely could have been had for 2-3 million at that rate.

And you are also making pretty big assumptions about Leddy. How do you know that Stan diddn't try and do exactly that and he got a feel for what Leddy wanted contract wise. Maybe Leddy diddn't want a bridge deal and wanted to get paid so Stan did the best with what he had, similar to the Saad situation.

And just to be clear - Leddy signed a 5.5mil/7year deal with the Islanders and you think we could have had him for 5 years at 2-3 mil? Dream on...

With T and K I think Stan had all the leverage while Brisson had ****. They are the faces of this franchise and make a **** ton of money in local endorsements. You can't tell me that Stan couldn't have had Toews for $9.5 million and Kane for 8.5-9.0. At 10.5 Kane likely provides overall negative value (slightly) as he isn't as valuable as Toews to justify 13% of the overall cap hit. Obviously the Hawks are willing to spend as much as they can, but that ~1 means a hell of a lot less to them than the 2-2.5 means for icing the best team conceivably possible. The Hawks didn't even get market value let alone a hometown discount.

I really don't think you understand how leverage works. The bolded does the exact opposite of what you think it does. How does being the face of a franchise give you less leverage? I just dont understand at all how you could think that. Do you really think one of the best sports agents in the world is sitting there going "Na Stan your right, they make a lot of money on local endorsments, they dont need more money". The more money they make on their contracts, the more Brission takes home. Kane and Toews are largely responsible for turning a dead franchise around and had just won their second cup in 4 years with one Conn Smythe for each of them. That gives them ALL the leverage. With what the cap was supposed to go to, Toews would have been worth the 10.5 with Kane being overpaid by about a million piggybacking on Toews contract.

Crawford's contract doesn't look horrendous....now. At the time? He hadn't had consistency at the NHL level and was widely regarded as a mediocre goalie playing in front of an elite defense. Not only had he not proved to be worth that money, I highly doubt teams were lining up to sign Crawford for that term and price. Judging by many of the articles from industry "experts" (at the time), it seemed to be the prevailing feeling as well.

Again, you are just making assumptions here to **** on a move by Stan that worked out just fine for the Blackhawks. I don't see the point of this other to bash just for the sake of bashing.
 

zac

Registered User
Apr 29, 2009
8,484
42
See the problem with that logic is you make it seem like Hayes was 100% going to sign if we hadn't signed Bickell. It was ultimately Hayes that CHOSE he did not want to be here. You continue to put your blame in the wrong person for Hayes departure. I wouldn't be surprised if Hayes wanted a guarantee that he would be in the NHL all season and that's just something that Stan was not willing to give, nor should he. Now who knows, maybe if we dont sign Bickell Hayes does stay. But that's only a possibility. You are making it seem like a definitive to support your narrative. And I said how could we have afforded Leddy at the time, not go back a in time a year and a half to make Leddy work. So again to the original point, Stan did not "**** up" with dealing Leddy...



And you are also making pretty big assumptions about Leddy. How do you know that Stan diddn't try and do exactly that and he got a feel for what Leddy wanted contract wise. Maybe Leddy diddn't want a bridge deal and wanted to get paid so Stan did the best with what he had, similar to the Saad situation.

And just to be clear - Leddy signed a 5.5mil/7year deal with the Islanders and you think we could have had him for 5 years at 2-3 mil? Dream on...



I really don't think you understand how leverage works. The bolded does the exact opposite of what you think it does. How does being the face of a franchise give you less leverage? I just dont understand at all how you could think that. Do you really think one of the best sports agents in the world is sitting there going "Na Stan your right, they make a lot of money on local endorsments, they dont need more money". The more money they make on their contracts, the more Brission takes home. Kane and Toews are largely responsible for turning a dead franchise around and had just won their second cup in 4 years with one Conn Smythe for each of them. That gives them ALL the leverage. With what the cap was supposed to go to, Toews would have been worth the 10.5 with Kane being overpaid by about a million piggybacking on Toews contract.



Again, you are just making assumptions here to **** on a move by Stan that worked out just fine for the Blackhawks. I don't see the point of this other to bash just for the sake of bashing.

I wasn't even talking about Kevin. I was talking about Jimmy.

As for Leddy I am referencing the time period TWO YEARS before he re-upped with the Islanders. Instead of wasting money on Bickell they could have easily had Leddy, with his playing time and service time, for 4-5 (maybe 6) with an AAV not much north (at most) of 3 million. Stan screwed the pooch, Leddy had a great regular season (which should have been expected), and he was traded that offseason. That deal he got with the Islanders? I'm not sure how that figures into this discussion.

In a salary Cap world Toews' and Kanes' standing within the franchise MOST CERTAINLY should have provided leverage for Stan. When dealing with a 21 roster minimum and a 71 (or whatever) million dollar Cap, 10.5-11 is the absolute max ANY team should consider offering ANY player. In order to sign that said player the team has to have the cap room and (more than likely) needs to be a contender (to lure them away). How many teams potentially fit that bill? Few if any. Then you have to consider the TOTAL VALUE of playing in Chicago. That's not just the contract, but local and national endorsements. The Blackhawk brand has HUGE local and national reach, with T & K being iconic staples in those jerseys. Outside of maybe Toronto, there isn't a better situation, with the strength of the team and the BRAND created by the winning and the organizational marketing efforts that can offer them more collective money. In the end staying with the Blackhawks was the best move for both financially AND for their careers. Winning earns everyone money, yet they could have easily stayed for a million less than what they did. The fact that Stan couldn't convince them or properly exploit that value is a major **** up on his part. Like with many of his contracts he was basically bidding against himself.

I'm utterly flabbergasted by the pass these two got when they signed their deals and even more so that people can't seem to grasp the money is more than just their contracts. They are raking it in with the Hawks, and there isn't a better situation for either to continue to do so.
 

JustABlackhawksFan

Registered User
Jun 2, 2015
1,695
2
Why isn't the NHL promoting/talking about Panarin at all? Not a word about him on their Facebook page anywhere, yet predictably of course they posted McDavid's garbage goal.
 

OhCaptainMyCaptain

Registered User
May 5, 2014
22,186
2,281
Earth
I heard a few NHL commentators (can't remember which goal) talking about their surprises of the year so far early and who's looked good and all of them mentioned Panarin. Just gotta look in the right places.
 

sketch22

Registered User
Jul 18, 2011
1,540
7
In a salary Cap world Toews' and Kanes' standing within the franchise MOST CERTAINLY should have provided leverage for Stan. When dealing with a 21 roster minimum and a 71 (or whatever) million dollar Cap, 10.5-11 is the absolute max ANY team should consider offering ANY player. In order to sign that said player the team has to have the cap room and (more than likely) needs to be a contender (to lure them away). How many teams potentially fit that bill? Few if any.

It only takes 1.

Then you have to consider the TOTAL VALUE of playing in Chicago. That's not just the contract, but local and national endorsements.

What national spots have either of them done? The only thing I can think of would be getting on the cover of the EA NHL games.

The Blackhawk brand has HUGE local and national reach, with T & K being iconic staples in those jerseys. Outside of maybe Toronto, there isn't a better situation, with the strength of the team and the BRAND created by the winning and the organizational marketing efforts that can offer them more collective money.

You don't think Toews could have gotten more money (contract/endorsements) from being the hometown superstar in Winnipeg than what he is making here? Or Kane in Buffalo? Or Kane joining Tavares in New York? Or Toronto? Or Monteal? Or living tax free in Florida?

In the end staying with the Blackhawks was the best move for both financially AND for their careers. Winning earns everyone money, yet they could have easily stayed for a million less than what they did.

The could have stayed for 5 million less if they wanted to. That doesn't mean they would have.

The fact that Stan couldn't convince them or properly exploit that value is a major **** up on his part.

Or it means their agent did his job. Or it means they were willing to leave if they didn't get what they want. Or it means any number of other things which have nothing to do with Stan ****ing up.

I'm utterly flabbergasted by the pass these two got when they signed their deals and even more so that people can't seem to grasp the money is more than just their contracts. They are raking it in with the Hawks, and there isn't a better situation for either to continue to do so.

Why should people get pissed at them? Athletes make a ridiculous amount of money. As long as the Hawks keep winning no one will ***** (except the people who would have *****ed anyways). If their play falls off and they stop making deep runs in the playoffs then people will start to complain.
 

G0AT

Registered User
Jun 1, 2014
2,073
365
Chicago
Why isn't the NHL promoting/talking about Panarin at all? Not a word about him on their Facebook page anywhere, yet predictably of course they posted McDavid's garbage goal.

That's the Canadian market at it's finest my friend. McDavid highlights everywhere, then maybe an Eichel highlight. No love for the Russian rook though. No worries, Panarin will be a sleeper for the calder and they will be forced to talk about him.
 

B4rre

Registered User
Jan 17, 2014
79
0
That's the Canadian market at it's finest my friend. McDavid highlights everywhere, then maybe an Eichel highlight. No love for the Russian rook though. No worries, Panarin will be a sleeper for the calder imo.

Panarin will have to outscore Eichel, McD, Larkin etc by a significant margin in order to win the calder. I'm sure Panarin's age, nationality, line and team will affect the votes and surely not on his favor in comparison to Eichel, McD etc who'll have much more exposure regardless of their performance.
 

G0AT

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Jun 1, 2014
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Chicago
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ClydeLee

Registered User
Mar 23, 2012
11,787
5,325
Panarin isn't eligible for the Calder.

"To be eligible for the award, a player cannot have played more than 25 games in any single preceding season nor in six or more games in each of any two preceding seasons in any major professional league."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=24931

Ovi and Malkin shouldn't of won the Calder if that was the case then too. Either that stipulation is knew, the KHL is somehow viewed differently than the RSL was, or Panarin is going to be held to the same standard they were and will be eligible.
 

Sarava

Registered User
May 9, 2010
17,173
2,708
West Dundee, IL
Ovi and Malkin shouldn't of won the Calder if that was the case then too. Either that stipulation is knew, the KHL is somehow viewed differently than the RSL was, or Panarin is going to be held to the same standard they were and will be eligible.

The stipulation isn't new. As the link says, it cost Gretzky the Calder because he played a year in the WHL.

Regarding the KHL - the KHL was founded in 2007-2008, after Ovechkin and Malkin came here.

I wouldn't think places would take bets on a guy that is ineligible, but the rule seems to read pretty clear? Hmm.
 

Gargyn

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
7,698
1,898
Kelowna, BC
The stipulation isn't new. As the link says, it cost Gretzky the Calder because he played a year in the WHL.

Regarding the KHL - the KHL was founded in 2007-2008, after Ovechkin and Malkin came here.

I wouldn't think places would take bets on a guy that is ineligible, but the rule seems to read pretty clear? Hmm.

Then why was kucherov eligible 2 years ago? Why was vasilevskiy eligible last year? Fact is the khl does NOT count. Panarin is eligible. Add in that tarasenko was also eligible and played in the khl.
 

ClydeLee

Registered User
Mar 23, 2012
11,787
5,325
The stipulation isn't new. As the link says, it cost Gretzky the Calder because he played a year in the WHL.

Regarding the KHL - the KHL was founded in 2007-2008, after Ovechkin and Malkin came here.

I wouldn't think places would take bets on a guy that is ineligible, but the rule seems to read pretty clear? Hmm.

They played in the RSL, which in no significant way was different than the KHL is today.

No that isn't clear at all. Why would the KHL be considered a major league if the RSL wasn't? The only difference may be the relation the NHL has to that league in agreements being more open and clear.
 

Sarava

Registered User
May 9, 2010
17,173
2,708
West Dundee, IL
Kucherov didn't play 25 games in a single season of another professional league. Vasilevskiy did however, assuming you are correct that he was eligible?

And to be clear, I'm not arguing with anybody. Something doesn't jive here, regardless of the side you are debating for.
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
31,591
10,934
London, Ont.
This is the rule on NHL.com..says nothing about major professional hockey leagues.

Rookie Qualifications
To be considered a rookie, a player must not have played in more than 25 NHL games in any preceding seasons, nor in six or more NHL games in each of any two preceding seasons. Any player at least 26 years of age (by September 15th of that season) is not considered a rookie.
 
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