Official Expansion Draft Protection Thread (Howard protected over Mrazek)

[Winger98]

Oh come on. Are you ****ing serious? Are you that dedicated to your position that you'll eschew common sense and argue that the only way to motivate Mrazek was to lambast him publicly while simultaneously reducing his trade value? Really?

well, we've had coaches in the past who weren't exactly shy about trying to motivate a guy or two. Not sure it changes much if that message is coming from the GM or not. What's killed Mrazek's value, though, is his play. He plays up to expectations and no one has a problem.

Also, I wonder how much other clubs would have already known about any sort of off-ice issue. It's not like these guys don't know each other and have a lot of interconnections and interactions. If Mrazek was a problem and anyone was witness to it, it probably would make it into anyone's ear who was looking to trade for him.

 

[Winger98]

Meh, they're hoarding picks so they can take their own guys in the draft and build that way. I'd probably do the same, although yeah in some cases would have liked a guy like Strome or Dumba. But they did get guys like Theodore and Tuch, who I like a lot.

Yeah, and it's understandable. Considering the number of vets on short deals -especially on the blueline - that they brought in, I think I would have eyed that for the next draft, though. Grab guys like Dumba while you can, deal the Emelins and what not for whatever you can get for next year's draft.

 

[Reddwit]

well, we've had coaches in the past who weren't exactly shy about trying to motivate a guy or two. Not sure it changes much if that message is coming from the GM or not. What's killed Mrazek's value, though, is his play. He plays up to expectations and no one has a problem.

Haha, ok. You got me. There's only one thing that can reduce a player's value. These things can certainly never be compounded! "Its ok, guys! People could read his stat line, so it doesn't matter that his organization viewed him as expendable and he has attitude problems - his trade value was already reduced!"

Also, I wonder how much other clubs would have already known about any sort of off-ice issue. It's not like these guys don't know each other and have a lot of interconnections and interactions. If Mrazek was a problem and anyone was witness to it, it probably would make it into anyone's ear who was looking to trade for him.

Wow. Thats a massive leap. That basically suggests that any attitude problem, injury issue, team discomfort, teammate issue, ice time drama, etc makes it into the ears of another GM. Or are we just going to limit these mobile indiscretions to "attitude problems" so that it fits the argument?

But either way, that doesn't address the exposure issue. Taking the step of exposing him takes things to a whole different level, far beyond the "we had to throw his track suits in the shower" dealings.

 

[DetroitRed]

Had a feeling they wouldn't want Sheahan. I wouldn't want him after last season.

Trying to figure out why, when trying to rebuild, they fail to protect probably their best player in the Calder Cup playoffs. Seriously. Losing Nosek is probably going to amount to having a good amount of draw for the Wings coming season. One of the few things to look forward to, but Holland lets it go.

 

[Frk It]

Had a feeling they wouldn't want Sheahan. I wouldn't want him after last season.

Trying to figure out why, when trying to rebuild, they fail to protect probably their best player in the Calder Cup playoffs. Seriously. Losing Nosek is probably going to amount to having a good amount of draw for the Wings coming season. One of the few things to look forward to, but Holland lets it go.

He's a nice story being an undrafted guy and all, but Tomas Nosek is very easily replaceable.

 

[Dotter]

Had a feeling they wouldn't want Sheahan. I wouldn't want him after last season.

Trying to figure out why, when trying to rebuild, they fail to protect probably their best player in the Calder Cup playoffs. Seriously. Losing Nosek is probably going to amount to having a good amount of draw for the Wings coming season. One of the few things to look forward to, but Holland lets it go.

I never viewed Nosek more than a Jokem Andersson. The guy is already 24/25 and still in the AHL. Pulkennen dominated the AHL too. And He's still there.

 

[Oddbob]

Shane Doan is a high character guy, he works hard and doesn't swear. We need more of him in the room.

Doan is an idiot, always has been. He throws cheap hits quite a lot, but gets away with them, because he is long tenured in the league and respected. He is very similar to Pronger that way, dirty but get away because the league likes ya. Also, seen him swear a number of times in the course of a game.

Not sure if your whole post was sarcastic or just adding him was, but the point still stands.

 

[Oddbob]

I never viewed Nosek more than a Jokem Andersson. The guy is already 24/25 and still in the AHL. Pulkennen dominated the AHL too. And He's still there.

Exactly, can't believe anyone has even mentioned a slight worry about losing him. If he was good enough, he would have made our team by now, we aren't exactly loaded with amazing talent.

 

[mouser]

Thinking about the expansion draft fallout. Vegas had to take a minimum of 14 forwards, 9 dmen, and 3 goalies, with 4 wildcard picks. They took exactly 14 forwards all the wildcard picks were defenseman 14/13/3.

Vegas takes Mrazek instead of Nosek--they have to swap out a D pick on another team for a F.

Vegas takes Ouellet instead of Nosek--they have to swap out a D pick on another team for a F.

The pick of Nosek might be less a reflection of his value in a vacuum then the value of switching out a D for a F on the other teams Vegas selected players from.

 

[jaster]

Doan is an idiot, always has been. He throws cheap hits quite a lot, but gets away with them, because he is long tenured in the league and respected. He is very similar to Pronger that way, dirty but get away because the league likes ya. Also, seen him swear a number of times in the course of a game.

Not sure if your whole post was sarcastic or just adding him was, but the point still stands.

This is a mis-characterization, and I don't even like Doan. Swearing or not, he is indeed considered a high character guy around the league. He's an outspoken Christian, which carries a lot of weight in professional sports; even in hockey, which is less religious than baseball, and far less religious than football. And while he's played on the edge, physically, he's not considered dirty within the NHL.

That all said, TZE was obviously joking only about the idea of adding him to the roster.

 

[muchbetterthanlada]

Sad to lose Nosek.. He clearly improved his skating from his first callup (2015-16) to his second, and was pretty much the only player able to consistently create scoring chances on the 4th line last year. If he could have taken another step this summer, he would have become a really good piece for the Wings, imo. The fact that he developed at a higher age than others doesn't mean that his ceiling is any lower. When HSJ suggested they should protect Nosek, it was one of the few times I've agreed with her. Ideally they would have protected him over Abby, but that was never going to happen...

Happy to see Pulkkinen picked. Hope he can stay healthy and gets a real shot in the top 9. I know this board has no faith in him, but I still believe he belongs in the NHL. Good luck to him and Nosy.

another thing to consider... If Sheahan bounces back to post OK numbers this year, there is a real danger KH gives him 5 years at 4M or something like that.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Sad to lose Nosek.. He clearly improved his skating from his first callup (2015-16) to his second, and was pretty much the only player able to consistently create scoring chances on the 4th line last year. If he could have taken another step this summer, he would have become a really good piece for the Wings, imo. The fact that he developed at a higher age than others doesn't mean that his ceiling is any lower. When HSJ suggested they should protect Nosek, it was one of the few times I've agreed with her. Ideally they would have protected him over Abby, but that was never going to happen...

Happy to see Pulkkinen picked. Hope he can stay healthy and gets a real shot in the top 9. I know this board has no faith in him, but I still believe he belongs in the NHL. Good luck to him and Nosy.

another thing to consider... If Sheahan bounces back to post OK numbers this year, there is a real danger KH gives him 5 years at 4M or something like that.

If he played for Arizona he would be lucky to crack the 4th line. Teemu is done. He may have one good year but that's all he gets

 

[joe89]

Whether you wanna judge it as we have nothing of value on the team or not, Wings lost nothing in this draft. Par for the course, move on.

Mrazek is our full time starter again by x-mas.

 

[Winger98]

Wow. Thats a massive leap. That basically suggests that any attitude problem, injury issue, team discomfort, teammate issue, ice time drama, etc makes it into the ears of another GM. Or are we just going to limit these mobile indiscretions to "attitude problems" so that it fits the argument

If someone is having an attitude problem to the point where a team is looking to move him, yeah, I think nearly any interested team would have the back channels to get some idea what's going on. If they wouldn't just ask Holland directly about it. It's a workplace for them, and people talk. When they're looking to take on a $4m contract, they're going to do their due diligence. I don't think there is even anything cloak and daggerish about it but mostly just folks gossiping/griping at work.

 

[Mister Ed]

Holland took a calculated risk, didn't lose any draft picks and only lost a AHL caliber player. Save the Mrazek fiasco, I would say he came out of the expansion draft pretty good.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

The scary thing is they may very well be better than us this season. And our GM actually thinks we could be a competitive team while they will likely build through the draft and only get better while we sputter along in the bottom 5-10 of the league for the foreseeable future.

Building through the draft remains to be seen. Any GM can collect picks, its what you do with them that counts. We'll get our first look at how McPhee and his scouting staff actually stack up this weekend.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

well, we've had coaches in the past who weren't exactly shy about trying to motivate a guy or two.

True, but what seems to be new is this propensity to take a dump on our guys publically. Started with senile Jimmy D's comments about Mantha, then Blash on Mantha again last season, now Mrazek. Both of these guys were seen as future core pieces for the Wings not that long ago.


I have no problem with a coach motivating a player by calling them out once in a while, but what benefit is going to come from the last few days with Mrazek?


And I couldn't agree more... off-ice issues melt away when the player is performing well on the ice. Hasek in Buffalo is a good example.


The problem seems to be here that the young players are expected to "get with the program", to "fit into the system". So, what happens if Larkin steps out of line? AA? Do they get el dumpo as well? Who will you have left? Helm and Abby and goalless Riley Sheahan that "play the game the right way"?


A lot of Nashville's success this year was in allowing PK to be PK within the Nashville system. Maybe we should do the same with Mantha and Mrazek here.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

Don't get some of these picks that as of yet don't have trades attached, such as:

Teemu Pulkkinen: HUH, he will be out of the NHL very soon, doesn't compete hard enough, no points.

Connor Brickley - Who?

Deryk Engelland -Why?

Engelland is UFA. If they wanted him, couldn't they have picked another player off the Calgary list, then signed him as UFA come July 1st?

 

[izlez]

Seriously. Losing Nosek is probably going to amount to having a good amount of draw for the Wings coming season. One of the few things to look forward to, but Holland lets it go.

In terms of "draw" and being excited for next season, I'd bet 95% of Red Wings fans have never heard of Tomas Nosek.


And for good reason. Outside of HFBoards, people don't get way too hyped up on players that have never done anything in the NHL.

 

[Tatar]

Holland took a calculated risk, didn't lose any draft picks and only lost a AHL caliber player. Save the Mrazek fiasco, I would say he came out of the expansion draft pretty good.

Yeah except the relationship with Mrazek is likely over. If he had issues with management before the draft, being left unprotected is a big middle finger.

He won't have any fire in his game for this organization and will likely be dealt for a low pick during the summer. So we've lost our only goaltending prospect for likely nothing.

While some clubs tried negotiating with Vegas to protect players, Holland came out on record saying he wasn't interested in trades to protect any players exposed in the draft.

I'm not saying he could protect everyone but at least make the players feel like you're actively trying to keep them. If I'm a player and I wasn't protected, tough that's the sport-and I'm likely not a top player, but if my GM comes out and says we're not interested even in fielding low picks to keep me, well then why the **** am I on this team?

It's one thing to pretend to show you care, it's another to come out blatantly and say you don't.

So no we didn't come out pretty good.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Yeah except the relationship with Mrazek is likely over.

Except they own his rights. Either Mrazek will play better, which means he has value, which means the Wings can trade him and get stuff for him... or he won't play better, so who cares about the relationship anyway?

If Mrazek is planning on purposely tanking the next 3-4 years of his career just to get back at Detroit, I'd say that illustrates exactly what kind of attitude problems he has. If he's a professional hockey player, he'll go out and play as well as he can.

 

[HockeyinHD]

The best part is

We didn't shed a single real contract

Didn't free up any money to spend

That was never going to happen anyway.

 

[Ishad]

Yeah except the relationship with Mrazek is likely over. If he had issues with management before the draft, being left unprotected is a big middle finger.

He won't have any fire in his game for this organization and will likely be dealt for a low pick during the summer. So we've lost our only goaltending prospect for likely nothing.

While some clubs tried negotiating with Vegas to protect players, Holland came out on record saying he wasn't interested in trades to protect any players exposed in the draft.

I'm not saying he could protect everyone but at least make the players feel like you're actively trying to keep them. If I'm a player and I wasn't protected, tough that's the sport-and I'm likely not a top player, but if my GM comes out and says we're not interested even in fielding low picks to keep me, well then why the **** am I on this team?

It's one thing to pretend to show you care, it's another to come out blatantly and say you don't.

So no we didn't come out pretty good.

Not being claimed is a bigger middle finger from the rest of the league. He just got told in no uncertain terms that no one wants him and he has less trade value than Nosek. If he doesn't find the fire in his game he's not going to be dealt for a low pick, he's going to be either out of the league or taking a massive pay cut.

He just got a big reality check, if he doesn't turn it around after that he's not a player you want anyway.

 

[HockeyinHD]

See when you go to spin doctor school the first class is lying 101 Mr.Trump

People were upset for two and ONLY two reasons either,

A) if mrazek made was now considered worthless by the organization (willing to lose him for free proves that) a year after he was considered our franchise goalie of rhe future, what does that say for our rebuilding in the fly and not trading first rd picks for a decade? We have What, Larkin and Mantha and that's it?

B) how can you rebuild without asset mgmt? If Holland hates mrazek made and wants him banished from the state of Michigan so be it, but why not hold onto him until his value increased 6 months from now or next summer , exact same as yzerman did with drouin? Why let personal feelings dictate actions? Trade him all you want but at least do it smartly.

That's untrue. People were mad because they thought Mrazek would get claimed. That was said dozens of times in this thread.

There was never any real chance Mrazek was going to get claimed. All you're doing above is trying to backtrack from getting incandescently furious about something that other people knew was never going to happen, who told you it was never going to happen, and you ignored them and lit your hair on fire over it anyway.

 

[Frk It]

That's untrue. People were mad because they thought Mrazek would get claimed. That was said dozens of times in this thread.

There was never any real chance Mrazek was going to get claimed. All you're doing above is trying to backtrack from getting incandescently furious about something that other people knew was never going to happen, who told you it was never going to happen, and you ignored them and lit your hair on fire over it anyway.

Plenty of people said the thought process was dumb whether it materialized into anything or not.