Observations XIX

[LCPreds]

What do you guys think about the Vegas situation in general? On the one hand I'm glad they're a good squad for the purpose of quickly growing the local market. On the other hand it's annoying that the expansion draft was structured in a way that allowed them to be this good this fast.

 

[RickP]

What do you guys think about the Vegas situation in general? On the one hand I'm glad they're a good squad for the purpose of quickly growing the local market. On the other hand it's annoying that the expansion draft was structured in a way that allowed them to be this good this fast.

I think the system/coaches and their goalieS are the main reasons why they're successful. Also the fact that every player was rejected somehow, they must have a chip on their shoulder. Every game they play, one of their players is facing the team that rejected them.

I think that effect will wear off eventually. But yeah, they do have some pretty good players, no doubt.

 

[Armourboy]

What do you guys think about the Vegas situation in general? On the one hand I'm glad they're a good squad for the purpose of quickly growing the local market. On the other hand it's annoying that the expansion draft was structured in a way that allowed them to be this good this fast.

Personally I don't like it, not for the NHL or their fan base.

For one it's ridiculous that they got better circumstances because the league decided to charge them extra, but beyond that, part of being an expansion team is being subpar at the start and using that honeymoon period with fans when you team stinks and your fans are ok with that. Now you've come out of the gate on fire, now there is no honeymoon period, so if they come out the next couple of years and aren't as good, yeah you grew fans faster but they are less forgiving.

The other problem now becomes that while they have a decent roster now, they probably don't have much of a decent farm system, so when you need to start letting these guys go or need to trade them off you can't. Personally think you need to stink early if for no other reason than it stocks up the depth for a couple of years. At their current rate they won't have that though, and they have kind of put themselves in a position that they can't pick up more picks from a guy like Neal because hey now you are in the playoffs.

I kind of see it as better short term and worse off long term.

 

[101st_fan]

The 1967 expansion was filled with future hall of famers that played for their expansion teams (Hall and Parent were among the first three selected and then, much later on, there was some guy named Crisp). The late 90s expansion era was filled with castoffs and lower tier guys that meant we'd struggle for a few years while we got our system built. With Vegas, we see the pendulum back in the realm of providing the expansion team with instant quality players.

What Vegas is doing is capitalizing on the quality expansion draft with a system that fits.

 

[Armourboy]

One could argue that happened in the 60's though because the talent pool wasn't stretched as thin as it is today because you had far fewer teams. The odds of getting a future hall of famer would have been more likely.

 

[nomorekids]

I don't understand why people can't grasp why the expansion draft rules changed: Nashville nearly moved. Atlanta did move. Columbus was in the early stages of being in trouble. Only Minnesota, in an established market, had absolute success at the gate from the start and never really looked back.

Yes, it's not "fair" that Vegas gets a good team to begin with, but the league changed the rules because the old way was basically franchise poison and they learned their lesson.

Anyway...as for the game, despite the dominant shot count until the last 4 or so minutes, I felt the entire team sans Pekka was going through the motions a bit. The power plays were forced and ineffective, no one really seemed that interested in getting to loose pucks.

The shootout was ugly...really don't understand why Bonino was thrown out there...hasn't Josi had success in the past? Aberg? Even Ekholm has decent puck skills.

Frustrating point to lose for sure.

 

[wadesworld]

Sissons does have a higher face off win percentage but Jarnkrok is at just under 52% won for the season.

In crucial, last minute draws? My game watching says no.

 

[FossilFndr]

Disappointed that no one here mentioned the beautiful first goal, P.K. hustles and keeps the puck in the zone, bounces to Forsberg who passes across ice to Aberg who spots an open Jarnkrok who makes nice quick move across the net and scores from top of paint. Some of the cleanest passes we've seen. M Subban moves right then left to right and not quickly enough left again to stop the goal. And if Arvy's goal isn't in Plays of the Week then something is wrong. Maybe we are so used to that type of effort from him it doesn't impress enough for comment, or was lost in the 5 on 3 failure or the OT failure or the shootout failure.

Both of those goals were really sweet and we need to remember them.

Edit was to correct the Aberg/Arvy mistype

 

[Pred303]

i agree fossil. those were two fine goals, both the tic-tac-toe jarnkrok one and the near impossible arvidsson one. almost equally impressive was the arvy steal and pass on the go ahead goal. that's just the shame of a painful defeat, the good things get overwhelmed.

Man i hate irregular NHL schedules. Doesn't feel natural to not have a weekend Saturday game. I think part of our 'problem' friday was we had the unusual 3 day break. Something that always seems to disrupt a team going really well. When you're struggling, you appreciate a change in routine, but not when you're red hot. And here we have 3 more days between games before Tuesday, makes one wonder how we will play then too.

 

[FossilFndr]

Hope the break gives Joey and Hartnell time to get well enough to play. And less than a month till Ellis expected return. If we can get most everyone healthy for the first time this season and maybe having about everyone back the 27th or for the back to backs with Wild I'm optimistic for the new year.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

I think the system/coaches and their goalieS are the main reasons why they're successful. Also the fact that every player was rejected somehow, they must have a chip on their shoulder. Every game they play, one of their players is facing the team that rejected them.

I think that effect will wear off eventually. But yeah, they do have some pretty good players, no doubt.

Their goalies have been dogshit before this season. Subban didn't look like a capable backup and Dansk didn't even get it together in the AHL. The whole team is having career years so far.
The fact that they are still winning is just mind gobbling.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Vegas has some talent, someone like Karlsson has been relegated to 4th line duties in Anaheim and Columbus but it was always obvious that he was better suited for a 2nd line center role.

Anyway, what I saw on Friday was that they consistently had 3-4 players building a wall down low between the faceoff circle and crease. So even though the Preds were getting more shots, most of them weren't great opportunities. The Knights also did a good job of getting sticks and legs in the way whenever a Predator was able to handle the puck in close. So a lot of what the Preds were putting on net was desperation type shots, just getting anything towards the net, which often was just getting the heel of a blade onto an unsettled puck.

Now, of course that doesn't mean that Vegas played a great game, but on that same note the Preds did themselves no favors either. They looked like they had a big lack of communication, obviously the lines have been shuffling without Johansen, and they seemed to switch up a bit as the game went on.

Maybe some players were looking ahead to some days off, and hopefully getting Johansen back soon will let everyone slot back into their regular roles.

 

[101st_fan]

One could argue that happened in the 60's though because the talent pool wasn't stretched as thin as it is today because you had far fewer teams. The odds of getting a future hall of famer would have been more likely.

One could also argue that the rather robust number of exposed players contributed as well. Think about it ... 120 signed players were selected during the '67 expansion draft from only six franchises. Teams could only protect one goalie and eleven skaters ... players in juniors or young enough to play in juniors were exempt ... to protect a second year pro that was too old for juniors meant using one of their few protective slots. Teams had to make choices between protecting Parent/Cheevers ... Bower/Sawchuk ... Hall/DeJordy .. and that was just at goal for what led to the first three picks.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I would give a lot of credit to Gallant and his staff. The franchise got a better shake than any other expansion team in their draft rules, but they still didn't manage to execute as well as they could have on that front. What they did execute perfectly on was hiring a coach, apparently. They got the right guy to work with the misfit toys, and he has them playing the perfect game for their talent level.

I still don't see their place in the standings as sustainable. I don't know at what point, if ever, that wears off for me. It may be tough for them to make the call on dealing Neal, Perron, any other guys like that heading towards the deadline if they do stay in the playoff race. But that has to have been their Day 1 plan, and if they follow through on it, that ought to be another eventual hit to their playoff aspirations.

The NHL must be thrilled with it all. They are charging Seattle $650M, and Seattle won't blink to pay it. Score!

 

[originalpredfan]

Disappointed that no one here mentioned the beautiful first goal, P.K. hustles and keeps the puck in the zone, bounces to Forsberg who passes across ice to Arvy who spots an open Jarnkrok who makes nice quick move across the net and scores from top of paint. Some of the cleanest passes we've seen. M Subban moves right then left to right and not quickly enough left again to stop the goal. And if Arvy's goal isn't in Plays of the Week then something is wrong. Maybe we are so used to that type of effort from him it doesn't impress enough for comment, or was lost in the 5 on 3 failure or the OT failure or the shootout failure.

Both of those goals were really sweet and we need to remember them.

Perhaps I'm thinking of a different Jarnkrok goal, but I believe it was Aberg not Arvy that made the pass to Jarnkrok.

 

[drwpreds]

I would give a lot of credit to Gallant and his staff. The franchise got a better shake than any other expansion team in their draft rules, but they still didn't manage to execute as well as they could have on that front. What they did execute perfectly on was hiring a coach, apparently. They got the right guy to work with the misfit toys, and he has them playing the perfect game for their talent level.

I still don't see their place in the standings as sustainable. I don't know at what point, if ever, that wears off for me. It may be tough for them to make the call on dealing Neal, Perron, any other guys like that heading towards the deadline if they do stay in the playoff race. But that has to have been their Day 1 plan, and if they follow through on it, that ought to be another eventual hit to their playoff aspirations.

The NHL must be thrilled with it all. They are charging Seattle $650M, and Seattle won't blink to pay it. Score!

I've been saying all along that they will hit a wall and absolutely will not make the playoffs. And I am still sticking to it. But they are really making me doubt myself, I have to admit. I mean, they just beat the Preds and Stars on the road in back to backs. That is impressive for anyone, much less an expansion team.

I mean, it would be an unbelievable feat if they were just .500, but they are near the top of the league. It is kind of ironic that if they do do the impossible and make the playoffs that will almost certainly be a bad thing in the long term picture.

But heck, the more I think about it, I hope they keep on doing it- if they make the playoffs in the Pacific then that means some other good team, one that is a legitimate threat- will miss. Would take a playoff matchup with them any day.

 

[King Weber]

Ugh, I hate these long breaks between games after a loss.

 

[Armourboy]

Ugh, I hate these long breaks between games after a loss.

I don't mind the loss, the break is the big problem

 

[FossilFndr]

Perhaps I'm thinking of a different Jarnkrok goal, but I believe it was Aberg not Arvy that made the pass to Jarnkrok.

Error corrected, great passes and goal though.

 

[Pred303]

I don't mind the loss, the break is the big problem

i admit i hate both the loss and the break lol

 

[Preds Partisan]

 

[MrJoshua]

The frustrating part of the loss, to me, were the things that were pretty much pure luck. That's hockey, though. Sometimes the puck bounces weird ways.

The Neil goal, Josi blocked the shot but the puck went straight across onto Neil's stick. It looked to me like the other defender (Ekholm?) was in position to clear a rebound before Neil could get to it, but wasn't anticipating the puck coming across the ice because Josi had that cut off. So, a lucky bounce for Vegas turns into a goal.

Does anyone else think Subban is trying too hard right now? I don't know if it's because of his defensive partner or if he's just trying to live up to his contract, but it seems to me like he needs to simplify his game. He's trying to carry the puck too much and make great plays, when he needs to settle down and just make the GOOD plays. Stop trying to beat two guys on a zone breakout; send the puck up the boards and let your forwards skate to it. A chip into the neutral zone beats a turnover inside the blue line any day.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

 

[drwpreds]

The frustrating part of the loss, to me, were the things that were pretty much pure luck. That's hockey, though. Sometimes the puck bounces weird ways.

The Neil goal, Josi blocked the shot but the puck went straight across onto Neil's stick. It looked to me like the other defender (Ekholm?) was in position to clear a rebound before Neil could get to it, but wasn't anticipating the puck coming across the ice because Josi had that cut off. So, a lucky bounce for Vegas turns into a goal.
.

Yep, agreed. If you could erase the last 4 minutes when they just completely dominated us, I thought we played a pretty good game overall. With 4 minutes left, we had overcame a two goal deficit, led 3-2 and had outshot them 40-24. If we could ever get an empty net goal that could have been a very good 4-2 win.

But that last 4 minutes- ugh......

 

[King Weber]

Oh for f***s sake.

Good news is that Johansen and Hartnell were both practicing so both could be back soon.