Proposal: NYR-ANA

[smoneil]

As for picks, if I'm the Rangers I'm not holding onto them like gold. But then I tend to side with the folks who think late 1sts are overrated. You can always get them back in later drafts after your window starts closing by selling off your older vets as rentals. I look at those late 1sts as just buying on credit, spend a '25 1st for help now, when it's time to rebuild you get that pick back as a seller a few years later. Only time to keep them as a contender is in an unusually strong draft like last year or 03.

I agree with this to a point, but at the same time, over the last dozen or so years, the Rangers have drafted guys like Kreider, JT Miller, K'Andre Miller, Brady Skjei, Filip Chytil, Braden Schneider, Othmann, and Gabriel Perrault in the back half of the first round. So from my point of view, if a team is convinced that a trade target is going to make a big difference, a late first shouldn't get in the way. At the same time, that 1st shouldn't be burning a hole in a GM's pocket. No need to spend it JUST to spend it. It can (and in the Rangers' case) often does turn into something useful.

 

[AirGut]

I bet you would lol. Let’s not derail the thread and leave Z out of it.

Or possibly Lundestrom, if Kakko is being shopped and there is interest from Verbeek I would assume the Rangers are looking to find a potential Chytil replacement for the future and not just for this run. Henrique is fine enough for the next couple months but if Kakko is the piece you're moving out you should at least be targeting someone that isn't in their 30's.

 

[smoneil]

What should we expect for Henrique?

If you break that trade down it was
Henrique for 2nd
Vatrano for 1st
Kakko making up the difference in value

kakko value based on production is not much, but maybe his value is higher than that to the rangers.

But a 2nd + is too high of expectations?

Again, Kakko last season scored 37 even strength points. Vatrano has never done that. Henrique did it once, more than a decade ago. And Kakko is 7 years younger that Vatrano and much better defensively. He had an injury and a down season this year, but has looked great lately. If Kakko's value is "not much," then surely Henrique and Vatrano should be worth less than "not much." If Kakko were force-fed top line minutes and PP1 time, I'm 100% certain that his stat line would be well above Vatrano and Henrique's.

Honestly, the ONLY way the Rangers should entertain trading Kakko is if Kakko asked out (something which isn't out of the realm of possibility, as he hasn't seemed very happy with his limited opportunity here).

 

[smoneil]

Late firsts may be overrated, but if you look at the Rangers drafting since the 2009 draft with Kreider, the Rangers have actually been pretty successful in the 2nd half of the first round.

2009- Kreider
2011- JT Miller (15)
2012- Brady Skjei (28)
2017- Filip Chytil (21)
2018- K'Andre Miller (22), Nils Lundkvist (28)
2020- Braden Schneider (19)
2021- Brennan Othmann (21)
2023- Gabe Perreault (23)|

Nils Lundkvist has been arguably the worst of those, and he still fetched a 1st

The dangers of posting as I read the thread, haha. I hadn't realized you had already made this point when I made (almost exactly) the same post.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

How do Rangers fans honestly Kakko value right now, do you have hope for him to be a top line player still or more of a 2nd line player? I feel like Anaheim can get more value moving Henrique and Vatrano separately if they retain money but u can also see Verbeek being willing to take a chance on Kakko. Moving Vatrano more hurts Anaheim next year and I don't think it's reasonable to think Kakko can replace that

 

[smoneil]

Well, they're certainly not 2nd-overalls getting their tires pumped for scoring 37 points.

Even strength points. The same number of them last season as guys like Brad Marchand, Patrice Bergeron, Tyler Seguin, and Sam Reinhart. When a team has a PP1 unit that they REFUSE to break up (Kreider, Zib, Fox, Trocheck, and Panarin), the only way to judge other players is by ES production.

 

[smoneil]

How many ES points does Kakko have this year?

When you frame it like you did it almost sounds crazy to consider trading Kakko for Vatrano, right?

Another way to frame it is this year Vatrano has more ES goals than Kakko has total points.

Kakko started the season snake-bit but with great advanced stats. Then he missed a chunk of time with a leg injury that initially looked like it might be season-ending. Since he's been back and back to speed, he's looked great. Ultimately an uneven season. But that's to be expected from a 22 year old, and why most intelligent teams don't trade them for inconsistency. Case in point, these boards thought Laf was a bust and worth a late 15th round draft pick at best last summer. He regained his confidence and is putting together a nice little season. All of a sudden, he's untouchable.

People want Kakko because they saw what he did last season and understand that he's likely to get back to that. They think the Rangers will sell low because of Kakko's uneven season thus far. But the Rangers ALSO know that Kakko is young and is likely to get back to how he played last season (as shown in his recent run of games). So all this bravado about "Kakko is garbage and a bust and isn't worth anything blah blah blah" is ridiculous, because if you (collective "you") actually believed that, you wouldn't be trying so hard to acquire him.

 

[AirGut]

How do Rangers fans honestly Kakko value right now, do you have hope for him to be a top line player still or more of a 2nd line player? I feel like Anaheim can get more value moving Henrique and Vatrano separately if they retain money but u can also see Verbeek being willing to take a chance on Kakko. Moving Vatrano more hurts Anaheim next year and I don't think it's reasonable to think Kakko can replace that

At this point I think he can carve out a similar career like Nino Niederreiter. He has what it takes to be a complimentary top-6 RW in this league and hover around the 50 point mark but he still has potential to eclipse that if playing with the right type of center, at the end of the day New York might just be too big of a stage for him to actually blossom and evolve past what he is right now.

the idea of Carlsson-Kakko paired up together on a line might be really intruiging to Verbeek. I think Anaheim & New York make good trade partners at this point in time but nobody wants to take any risks so I understand scoffing at the idea of moving Kakko at all.

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

How do Rangers fans honestly Kakko value right now, do you have hope for him to be a top line player still or more of a 2nd line player? I feel like Anaheim can get more value moving Henrique and Vatrano separately if they retain money but u can also see Verbeek being willing to take a chance on Kakko. Moving Vatrano more hurts Anaheim next year and I don't think it's reasonable to think Kakko can replace that

Assuming he never gets any better, I value him as a younger version of Jesper Fast (with better puck handling and worse skating). Not what you expect for a 2OA but still a valuable player and the kind of player every team needs.

 

[pld459666]

How do Rangers fans honestly Kakko value right now, do you have hope for him to be a top line player still or more of a 2nd line player? I feel like Anaheim can get more value moving Henrique and Vatrano separately if they retain money but u can also see Verbeek being willing to take a chance on Kakko. Moving Vatrano more hurts Anaheim next year and I don't think it's reasonable to think Kakko can replace that

I think Kakko's value is a solid 2nd/3rd line player capable of 30-40pts while being above average defensively.

I think he tops out as a 20/20 guy that will probably never breat the bank contractually.

I'd prefer to keep him, personally

Teams tjat win have guys like Kakko playing for them.

 

[Ducks]

Henrique (-50%) + Vatrano

for

Kakko + 2024 2nd + 2025 1st

I think it's a good offer. Depends what each team thinks of Kakko and how much potential to improve he still has left.

 

[drede]

Henrique (-50%) + Vatrano

for

Kakko + 2024 2nd + 2025 1st

Pretty fair value based off the market

 

[wetcoast]

I feel like Anaheim fans would want more…. But I suppose kakko is kinda the X factor, if team is high on him.

Personally I think it’s pretty close

This is my feeling as well but in order for the ducks to do this they have to feel that it's the situation and not Kakko.

The problem is that for a guy like Kakko he probably has more value to the NYR than the value any other teams in the NHL feels about so it would really depend if the Rangers want to risk Kakko becoming the player they thought he could be when they drafted him to the value that Henrique and Vatrano would mean to them for this playoff drive.

Henrique is going to be in high demand IMO.

 

[McJedi]

Henrique (-50%) + Vatrano

for

Kakko + 2024 2nd + 2025 1st

Feels close on value. Maybe that’s a 3rd rounder instead of a 2nd v

 

[bernmeister]

package deal of 4 separate parts

Shesterkin + Goodrow + Vesey + BMB
for
Zegras + Silfverberg + Helleson + J. Per.

Ducks get elite Vez quality netminder, helps accelerate dealing Gibson which gets some asset recovery and much cap space, which is not urgent for ANA now but is always useful

Zegras has 2 yrs after this, Shesty only 1
reasonable to think Zegras continues to trend upward, but if so his $$ will go up on his next deal. He is not dirt cheap at 5+ but is worth more now w/more term.
Shes + Zeg comp salary

Silf paid more but has less term

Vesey immediately useful bottom 6
BMB good F prospect when moving on from Strome in 2 yrs

-----------
Rs have Garand as heir apparent to Shesty, and gamble Quick + Dominque will hold the fort. Gar here as soon as AHL season over, cup o coffee +.

Zegras we hope to get for POs
1st try as pivot betw Kreider + Zib at RW

Alternatively, pivot betw Cuylle + Kakko

Helleson see what he is NOW

J Per flip to MON for Barron == swap of similar late 1st righty shot selections, JP an F and JB a D

***********************
also now
Lindgren + Jones + two 3rds to AZ
for
two 2nds

----------------
after the season
LaF + G Per + NYR 2024 2nd
for
Reinbacher + Slaf + WPG 2024 1st

Per + Rein are upwards of 2 yrs away, so =
LaF - Slaf comparable but LaF has mo upside

================
Trouba to 4RW or dealt for picks most likely to DET

 

[Crazy8oooo]

package deal of 4 separate parts

Shesterkin + Goodrow + Vesey + BMB
for
Zegras + Silfverberg + Helleson + J. Per.

Ducks get elite Vez quality netminder, helps accelerate dealing Gibson which gets some asset recovery and much cap space, which is not urgent for ANA now but is always useful

Zegras has 2 yrs after this, Shesty only 1
reasonable to think Zegras continues to trend upward, but if so his $$ will go up on his next deal. He is not dirt cheap at 5+ but is worth more now w/more term.
Shes + Zeg comp salary

Silf paid more but has less term

Vesey immediately useful bottom 6
BMB good F prospect when moving on from Strome in 2 yrs

-----------
Rs have Garand as heir apparent to Shesty, and gamble Quick + Dominque will hold the fort. Gar here as soon as AHL season over, cup o coffee +.

Zegras we hope to get for POs
1st try as pivot betw Kreider + Zib at RW

Alternatively, pivot betw Cuylle + Kakko

Helleson see what he is NOW

J Per flip to MON for Barron == swap of similar late 1st righty shot selections, JP an F and JB a D

***********************
also now
Lindgren + Jones + two 3rds to AZ
for
two 2nds

----------------
after the season
LaF + G Per + NYR 2024 2nd
for
Reinbacher + Slaf + WPG 2024 1st

Per + Rein are upwards of 2 yrs away, so =
LaF - Slaf comparable but LaF has mo upside

================
Trouba to 4RW or dealt for picks most likely to DET

Your proposals get worse and worse. You won’t trade Kakko because of his “potential” yet you want the Ducks to trade Zegras, who’s accomplished way more so far. And each time you propose it, it gets more ridiculous. What the hell do the rebuilding Ducks want with Shesterkin…especially as the main piece back for their young, high potential player?! You really think a 28 year old goalie and 30 /31 year old forwards are a fair trade for a potential star, 23 year old? Then you also have the Ducks adding one of their only RD prospects and recent first rounder on top of it? Get out of here with this BS. -

 

[SnS]

package deal of 4 separate parts

Shesterkin + Goodrow + Vesey + BMB
for
Zegras + Silfverberg + Helleson + J. Per.

Ducks get elite Vez quality netminder, helps accelerate dealing Gibson which gets some asset recovery and much cap space, which is not urgent for ANA now but is always useful

Zegras has 2 yrs after this, Shesty only 1
reasonable to think Zegras continues to trend upward, but if so his $$ will go up on his next deal. He is not dirt cheap at 5+ but is worth more now w/more term.
Shes + Zeg comp salary

Silf paid more but has less term

Vesey immediately useful bottom 6
BMB good F prospect when moving on from Strome in 2 yrs

-----------
Rs have Garand as heir apparent to Shesty, and gamble Quick + Dominque will hold the fort. Gar here as soon as AHL season over, cup o coffee +.

Zegras we hope to get for POs
1st try as pivot betw Kreider + Zib at RW

Alternatively, pivot betw Cuylle + Kakko

Helleson see what he is NOW

J Per flip to MON for Barron == swap of similar late 1st righty shot selections, JP an F and JB a D

***********************
also now
Lindgren + Jones + two 3rds to AZ
for
two 2nds

----------------
after the season
LaF + G Per + NYR 2024 2nd
for
Reinbacher + Slaf + WPG 2024 1st

Per + Rein are upwards of 2 yrs away, so =
LaF - Slaf comparable but LaF has mo upside

================
Trouba to 4RW or dealt for picks most likely to DET

One of the worst thought out deals I’ve seen for the ducks.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

package deal of 4 separate parts

Shesterkin + Goodrow + Vesey + BMB
for
Zegras + Silfverberg + Helleson + J. Per.

Ducks get elite Vez quality netminder, helps accelerate dealing Gibson which gets some asset recovery and much cap space, which is not urgent for ANA now but is always useful

Zegras has 2 yrs after this, Shesty only 1
reasonable to think Zegras continues to trend upward, but if so his $$ will go up on his next deal. He is not dirt cheap at 5+ but is worth more now w/more term.
Shes + Zeg comp salary

Silf paid more but has less term

Vesey immediately useful bottom 6
BMB good F prospect when moving on from Strome in 2 yrs

-----------
Rs have Garand as heir apparent to Shesty, and gamble Quick + Dominque will hold the fort. Gar here as soon as AHL season over, cup o coffee +.

Zegras we hope to get for POs
1st try as pivot betw Kreider + Zib at RW

Alternatively, pivot betw Cuylle + Kakko

Helleson see what he is NOW

J Per flip to MON for Barron == swap of similar late 1st righty shot selections, JP an F and JB a D

***********************
also now
Lindgren + Jones + two 3rds to AZ
for
two 2nds

----------------
after the season
LaF + G Per + NYR 2024 2nd
for
Reinbacher + Slaf + WPG 2024 1st

Per + Rein are upwards of 2 yrs away, so =
LaF - Slaf comparable but LaF has mo upside

================
Trouba to 4RW or dealt for picks most likely to DET

Ewww

 

[lwvs84]

package deal of 4 separate parts

Shesterkin + Goodrow + Vesey + BMB
for
Zegras + Silfverberg + Helleson + J. Per.

Ducks get elite Vez quality netminder, helps accelerate dealing Gibson which gets some asset recovery and much cap space, which is not urgent for ANA now but is always useful

Zegras has 2 yrs after this, Shesty only 1
reasonable to think Zegras continues to trend upward, but if so his $$ will go up on his next deal. He is not dirt cheap at 5+ but is worth more now w/more term.
Shes + Zeg comp salary

Silf paid more but has less term

Vesey immediately useful bottom 6
BMB good F prospect when moving on from Strome in 2 yrs

-----------
Rs have Garand as heir apparent to Shesty, and gamble Quick + Dominque will hold the fort. Gar here as soon as AHL season over, cup o coffee +.

Zegras we hope to get for POs
1st try as pivot betw Kreider + Zib at RW

Alternatively, pivot betw Cuylle + Kakko

Helleson see what he is NOW

J Per flip to MON for Barron == swap of similar late 1st righty shot selections, JP an F and JB a D

***********************
also now
Lindgren + Jones + two 3rds to AZ
for
two 2nds

----------------
after the season
LaF + G Per + NYR 2024 2nd
for
Reinbacher + Slaf + WPG 2024 1st

Per + Rein are upwards of 2 yrs away, so =
LaF - Slaf comparable but LaF has mo upside

================
Trouba to 4RW or dealt for picks most likely to DET

You're going to have to find a 3rd team that has what the Ducks need. Zegras is only moved for a forward upgrade (preferable RHS, doesn't need to play C) or a potential top pair RHD. Ducks bottom 6 is already over crowded, Killorn-Lundestrom-Strome, Jones-Groulx-Leason. While Vesey might be an upgrade, that's far from a need. Goodrow is a cap dump (negative value). A prospect 2 years away from replacing Strome isn't a need, just adds to a pile of players that might do the same. Shesterkin is an upgrade for 1 more year then UFA (no guarantees he signs here, also not a need). Plus then you want the Ducks to necessitate a Gibson trade from a position if weakness (being desperate to move him). For the Ducks to move Zegras, he's either going to have to demand a trade (hasn't) or they'll need something useful (nothing in this proposal). Anaheim isn't here to help the Rangers out.

 

[cheesymc]

Ducks are in no rush to trade Frankie and they need to establish a consistent offense to get past the rebuild phase. Rangers know this is a good opportunity, especially in the East with only the Panthers are a true threat to them. If they really want to give their team a shot they would make some big moves. For the Ducks, I wouldn’t consider moving Vatrano unless Othmann is offered, I wouldn’t accept picks or Kaako.

Othmann for Vatrano
Goodrow for 2024 1st
Rempe for Henrique
Kaako for Pereault+3rd

Otherwise Ducks keep Frankie and send him to the Panthers or other Ranger rival.

 

[Barnaby]

I think the value is pretty on point.

With that said, I’d have a hard time saying yes as a Ranger fan. I’d rather look at lower cost options.

However, forget some of that retention, and take back Goodrow? I don’t think the Rangers can say no to that…

 

[smoneil]

I think the value is pretty on point.

With that said, I’d have a hard time saying yes as a Ranger fan. I’d rather look at lower cost options.

However, forget some of that retention, and take back Goodrow? I don’t think the Rangers can say no to that…

Goodrow has a ridiculously team-friendly buy out (we'd actually GAIN cap space in the first year). And again, once you factor in the fact that neither Henrique nor Vatrano would be top line guys with PP1 minutes on the Rangers, their production suddenly looks similar to guys who would be available for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Don't pay a premium because a team is so bad that they have 3rd line guys on their top units.

 

[smoneil]

Ducks are in no rush to trade Frankie and they need to establish a consistent offense to get past the rebuild phase. Rangers know this is a good opportunity, especially in the East with only the Panthers are a true threat to them. If they really want to give their team a shot they would make some big moves. For the Ducks, I wouldn’t consider moving Vatrano unless Othmann is offered, I wouldn’t accept picks or Kaako.

Othmann for Vatrano
Goodrow for 2024 1st
Rempe for Henrique
Kaako for Pereault+3rd

Otherwise Ducks keep Frankie and send him to the Panthers or other Ranger rival.

This is hilarious. Kakko has more than 100 career points and you think you will get him for an undersized winger who would be lucky to finish his career with 100 career games? Because you added a 3rd round pick? Jacob Perrault does nothing for us.

No need to pay a 1st to ditch Goodrow--his buyout is ridiculously team friendly.

Not a chance in hell that you are getting Othmann for your 3rd line PP specialist who can't find his own zone on a guided tour.

Oddly, the only one where the value isn't ridiculously in your favor is Rempe for Henrique. I like Rempe--he's a great story and seems to energize the team--but he doesn't strike me as the kind of kid to have a lengthy career. He needs to translate more of his skill game rather than just the fighting. It's possible he can do it, but he's not really among our top prospects (definitely out of the top 5 and probably out of the top 10). Even then, Henrique still isn't the C I would want to bring in, because when it comes to rentals, I prefer that they have recent (and ideally extensive and successful) playoff experience. That's not Henrique.

Feel free to trade both guys to "the Panthers or another Rangers rival." Panarin, Laf, and Kreider would have a field day driving down Vatrano's un-covered side of the ice.

 

[NWWisconsinDuck]

In a forum filled with horrific trade offers, this one isn’t bad

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The value is there but NYR fans would say no probably based on Kakko's play lately. I think Henrique to Colorado would probably be the better fit/value for Anaheim.