Proposal: NYR-ANA

[pld459666]

For the roles that both players would assume in NY, the price is way too steep.

Vatrano is not getting any PP time here on the 1st unit. Maybe 30secs per PP on 2nd unit. Maybe.

Henrique would be the teams 3rd line pivot. His ice time is going to be greatly reduced.

Kakko is a solid defensive player that has 35+ ES point capability. I'm not moving him for an aged player in Henrique or a one dimensional shooter in Vatrano.

If the ask is KK and a 1st and a 2nd, I'll pass and wish Ducks fans all the best.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

For the roles that both players would assume in NY, the price is way too steep.

Vatrano is not getting any PP time here on the 1st unit. Maybe 30secs per PP on 2nd unit. Maybe.

Henrique would be the teams 3rd line pivot. His ice time is going to be greatly reduced.

Kakko is a solid defensive player that has 35+ ES point capability. I'm not moving him for an aged player in Henrique or a one dimensional shooter in Vatrano.

If the ask is KK and a 1st and a 2nd, I'll pass and wish Ducks fans all the best.

It's understandable and at the end of the day, as stated in previous threads - probably more realistic that you would only end up being the highest bidder one of these guys at most, rather than both. Then looking for a cheaper way to fill the other role, if at all.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Kakko is a non-starter for me as…

1. He shouldn’t be moved to make an all-in type move.

2. Contenders don’t take from their rosters to make deals come playoff time unless it’s a massive upgrade at the same position or doesn’t leave a gaping hole elsewhere. The only player who fits that bill is Guentzel and I doubt PIT and NYR are making a trade as they’ve only made 2 in the cap era.

NYR fans thought they were getting Sergachev or Point for McDonagh in 2018 and McDonagh is a far better piece than Varano or Henrique and that didn’t happen. Teams simply don’t subtract from their rosters come deadline time like this anymore. It’s counterproductive.

Correct. That doesn't mean it can't or hasn't happened, just highly unlikely.

Even though it would make me vomit, I can see Drury going after Henrique and giving up a 1st. I just want to stay away from Vatrano. We tried that experiment in 2022 and while he produced offensively, he was so bad defensively that it is a net negative. Also, that was when Zibanejad was Zibanejad was a monster defensively, not the train wreck he is this year. Vatrano and Zibanejad on a line together would be a disaster.

If we are going to go all in, I'd rather just put all the chips on the table and take a shot at Guentzel or even Jenner. Even though I didn't want Jenner originally, when looking at what else is out there, he is a much better fit for our team than Henrique and Vatrano.

Go big or just find a cheap alternative and go to war with what you have.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Correct. That doesn't mean it can't or hasn't happened, just highly unlikely.

Even though it would make me vomit, I can see Drury going after Henrique and giving up a 1st. I just want to stay away from Vatrano. We tried that experiment in 2022 and while he produced offensively, he was so bad defensively that it is a net negative. Also, that was when Zibanejad was Zibanejad was a monster defensively, not the train wreck he is this year. Vatrano and Zibanejad on a line together would be a disaster.

If we are going to go all in, I'd rather just put all the chips on the table and take a shot at Guentzel or even Jenner. Even though I didn't want Jenner originally, when looking at what else is out there, he is a much better fit for our team than Henrique and Vatrano.

Go big or just find a cheap alternative and go to war with what you have.

Yeah I don't think Vatrano is someone you go out and acquire to ride shotgun with Zibanejad on your top line. Better off somewhere in the middle six on a good team. I do think the overall game has continued to improve, there is some late blooming improvement happening with this player that I think is being dismissed to some degree. He's genuinely becoming a better player over his tenure with the Ducks and not just a one-off shooter that has fallen into the perfect situation to start scoring.

But yeah, I still agree with your point. The team that would make the biggest offer for Vatrano, would be a team lacking middle six scoring depth with eyes on Frankie adding some scoring punch and energy as a go-to guy on a second or third scoring line. He's not the guy you acquire to play with your two best forwards.

 

[BrockLobster]

Ranger fans wouldn't give up kakko for eichel

 

[Gardner McKay]

Yeah I don't think Vatrano is someone you go out and acquire to ride shotgun with Zibanejad on your top line. Better off somewhere in the middle six on a good team. I do think the overall game has continued to improve, there is some late blooming improvement happening with this player that I think is being dismissed to some degree. He's genuinely becoming a better player over his tenure with the Ducks and not just a one-off shooter that has fallen into the perfect situation to start scoring.

But yeah, I still agree with your point. The team that would make the biggest offer for Vatrano, would be a team lacking middle six scoring depth with eyes on Frankie adding some scoring punch and energy as a go-to guy on a second or third scoring line. He's not the guy you acquire to play with your two best forwards.

Agreed. That is what we did in 2022 and while his offensive numbers were great, that top line was often trapped in the D zone longer than needed.

I absolutely believe that he is a late bloomer. Some guys are. I always liked him so I'm happy to see it.

I think Vatrano can definitely be a valuable piece to a contending team. We just aren't that team. I would legitimately be mad if we spent the assets to acquire him. Henrique definitely fills a need for us, but like I said earlier, if we are going to put our 1st round pick in play, my preferred course would be an all-in move.

But Drury is going to do what Drury is going to do... so I should probably get used to the idea of us trading for Vatrano and Henrique as a package

 

[Gardner McKay]

Ranget fans wouldn't give up kakko for eichel

Thank you for this wonderful post that provides no context to the situation and only serves to troll. It will surely hang from the HF rafters and be remembered as one of the great sets of words in this forums history.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Ranget fans wouldn't give up kakko for eichel

Or Rick DiPietro.

 

[cwede]

Henrique (-50%) + Vatrano for Kakko + 2024 2nd + 2025 1st

that seems to be incredibly dumb for NYR

these wild drastic ideas make me impatient for TDL to pass

 

[tomd]

I know this is HF but I'm surprised by the lack of urgency amongst Ranger fans...their top players are all over 30 and their window will close in probably 2 years or maybe 3. If there was ever a year to "go for it" this seems like the one given that no team looks head and shoulders above the pack.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

that seems to be incredibly dumb for NYR

these wild drastic ideas make me impatient for TDL to pass

Ya prob dumb from nyr perspective, but at least the overall trade value is solid.

Rangers at most should focus on 1 tho

 

[UnSandvich]

Ya prob dumb from nyr perspective, but at least the overall trade value is solid.

Rangers at most should focus on 1 tho

For Anaheim it is.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

For Anaheim it is.

I mean it’s pretty close to what you would expect to pay on those type of players.

Maybe it’s not a great fit, or the right move for rangers.

 

[DavidBL]

Both Rico and Vatrano are 2nd line players and the cost should reflect 2nd line players. Makes sense the NY fans would want to pay less to fill a 3c role. Rico can do it but it's expensive but it would be pretty nice depthand he could move up easily if you encounter an injury.

 

[bernmeister]

J. Perreault has reached a point in his development where a change of scenery might be in the cards. Would certainly have no trouble adding him into a deal that requires Anaheim to add for balance purposes. We are a bit too deep in AHL eligible F prospects for next year, may require a move or two. Him and Brayden Tracey are both former 1st rounders that haven't panned out for the Ducks, both expendable at this point.

Agree or disagree, and open to further discussion on all fronts, pls do know I have an open mind on dif deals incl. for our clubs

So J. Per, I am looking to flip to Habs for Barron. Not sure what +s on either side for that and pls discuss further what you want; something around Vesey or other.

Also ostensibly in same smaller package, Helleson.
I don't see hardly any club w/huge surplus of D, including ours'.
But I get he is also a bit buried atm.
I was thinking BMB b'c projects into future F replacement and has mo cost control I believe.
Howev, I am open to discussing alternate comp
What do you want? [That we both can live with.]

 

[UnSandvich]

I mean it’s pretty close to what you would expect to pay on those type of players.

Maybe it’s not a great fit, or the right move for rangers.

The problem is, we've all seen Kreider-Zibanejad-Vatrano before. That line got absolutely brutalized in the 22 playoffs by everyone they faced, to the tune of a 35.43 xGF%. And that was with a better version of Zibanejad than is around today. They looked equally bad in the playoffs last year with Vladimir Tarasenko, a very similar style of player to Vatrano (39.44% xGF%). The shooting focused winger doesn't really work with Kreider and Vatrano.

What *HAS* worked in the past is the quick-ish, playdriving playmaker type. Pavel Buchnevich is the best example of this, but they also looked pretty good with Zuccarello before he was traded (No, Webster, we don't want him back). I'd say probably the best fit when price is considered for the spot at this deadline would be Jordan Eberle. Buch is better but would be way more expensive.

 

[bernmeister]

For the roles that both players would assume in NY, the price is way too steep.

Vatrano is not getting any PP time here on the 1st unit. Maybe 30secs per PP on 2nd unit. Maybe.

Henrique would be the teams 3rd line pivot. His ice time is going to be greatly reduced.

Kakko is a solid defensive player that has 35+ ES point capability. I'm not moving him for an aged player in Henrique or a one dimensional shooter in Vatrano.

If the ask is KK and a 1st and a 2nd, I'll pass and wish Ducks fans all the best.

This ^, and also someone found a stat
games Rs win/pts w/Kakko vs without
and dif w/him is a huge + AINEC

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

This ^, and also someone found a stat
games Rs win/pts w/Kakko vs without
and dif w/him is a huge + AINEC

But what if we added perreault/Tracey and helleson

 

[Rooch]

Hard pass.

I'd be fine with a deal for Henrique by himself, not interested in Vatrano.

Right, cuz why would you be interested in 30+ goals/year?

 

[TGWL]

I have to pass. I look at this team and I don't think the additions will make us that much better if you consider the cost. The way Mikka and Kreider play together right now, I fear the overpay for a winger to pair them with. The 1st for a Henrique to be a 3c rental is too expensive for me.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Right, cuz why would you be interested in 30+ goals/year?

Vatrano has plenty of flaws, and is getting favorable powerplay time which he won’t likely get on a contender.

I have to pass. I look at this team and I don't think the additions will make us that much better if you consider the cost. The way Mikka and Kreider play together right now, I fear the overpay for a winger to pair them with. The 1st for a Henrique to be a 3c rental is too expensive for me.

Supposedly ducks anre asking for 2nd +3rd and an extra 3rd for retention(assuming 50%)

 

[TGWL]

I know this is HF but I'm surprised by the lack of urgency amongst Ranger fans...their top players are all over 30 and their window will close in probably 2 years or maybe 3. If there was ever a year to "go for it" this seems like the one given that no team looks head and shoulders above the pack.

Current standings aside, do you look at this team and think they're taking down Colorado, Vegas, Jets, Etc? Most of us NYR fans don't. We've spent assets the last 2 years. But we're not very good 5 on 5 and I just don't think the higher priced deadline deals are going to make the difference. If you can find some depth in smaller trades, sure, take the shot.

 

[bernmeister]

But what if we added perreault/Tracey and helleson

I hear you
I am open to learning more about Tracey and other chips to find best combos for deals.

But KK has PROBABLY gotta be considered off the table.
Even for Zegras.

 

[tomd]

Current standings aside, do you look at this team and think they're taking down Colorado, Vegas, Jets, Etc? Most of us NYR fans don't. We've spent assets the last 2 years. But we're not very good 5 on 5 and I just don't think the higher priced deadline deals are going to make the difference. If you can find some depth in smaller trades, sure, take the shot.

If that is true (and it might be) then the Rangers are in the same boat as teams like Washington, Pittsburgh, and LA. Not much to look forward to except a rebuild/retool in a couple of years.

 

[FiveTacos]

That's probably too much to offer. I don't know why you'd go to 2025 for the 1st.

Because the Ducks have 6 picks in the first three rounds this year. Bunching up picks has its limits, the Ducks aren't exactly needing to quickly restock a barren system.

J. Perreault has reached a point in his development where a change of scenery might be in the cards. Would certainly have no trouble adding him into a deal that requires Anaheim to add for balance purposes. We are a bit too deep in AHL eligible F prospects for next year, may require a move or two. Him and Brayden Tracey are both former 1st rounders that haven't panned out for the Ducks, both expendable at this point.

And because of their pick surplus this year they can probably kick a 3rd or even a 2nd back the other way in the right deal.

It's always scary to part with 1sts for rentals, but a 1st for a rental plus a 2nd-4th round pick becomes more like an early trade up/trade down draft day deal. Frankly they should happen more often than they do.

I know this is HF but I'm surprised by the lack of urgency amongst Ranger fans...their top players are all over 30 and their window will close in probably 2 years or maybe 3. If there was ever a year to "go for it" this seems like the one given that no team looks head and shoulders above the pack.

As a fan of both teams, I'll say when it comes to Kakko the thinking is much like Ducks fans with Zegras ... If they're to be moved it should be with something else for an upgrade, as opposed to being parted out. Obviously Kakko+ isn't going to get you what Zegras+ could, but the principle is the same.

As for picks, if I'm the Rangers I'm not holding onto them like gold. But then I tend to side with the folks who think late 1sts are overrated. You can always get them back in later drafts after your window starts closing by selling off your older vets as rentals. I look at those late 1sts as just buying on credit, spend a '25 1st for help now, when it's time to rebuild you get that pick back as a seller a few years later. Only time to keep them as a contender is in an unusually strong draft like last year or 03.