Proposal: NYR-ANA

[2faded]

Kakko put up 37 even strength points last year as a 21/22 year old. Vatrano has never scored 37 ES points in a season, and Henrique has only done it once (almost 15 years ago). If Kakko is a bust, what does that make Vatrano and Henrique?

How many ES points does Kakko have this year?

When you frame it like you did it almost sounds crazy to consider trading Kakko for Vatrano, right?

Another way to frame it is this year Vatrano has more ES goals than Kakko has total points.

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

How many ES points does Kakko have this year?

When you frame it like you did it almost sounds crazy to consider trading Kakko for Vatrano, right?

Another way to frame it is this year Vatrano has more ES goals than Kakko has total points.

None of this changes the fact that we've already seen Vatrano with Kreider and Zibanejad and that line got caved in in the playoffs. Whatever anyone might think Vatrano's value is aside, he's not the right fit.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

None of this changes the fact that we've already seen Vatrano with Kreider and Zibanejad and that line got caved in in the playoffs. Whatever anyone might think Vatrano's value is aside, he's not the right fit.

To be fair most ducks fans don’t see us really trading Vatrano this year unless a team is going to pay a high price…. If we’re just getting a 1st for Vatrano prob makes sense to keep him until next year

But kakko is being out scored by leason and max Jones this year, and his value is prob at a low point

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

To be fair most ducks fans don’t see us really trading Vatrano this year unless a team is going to pay a high price…. If we’re just getting a 1st for Vatrano prob makes sense to keep him until next year

If I were a Ducks fan I would feel the same way.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

How many ES points does Kakko have this year?

When you frame it like you did it almost sounds crazy to consider trading Kakko for Vatrano, right?

Another way to frame it is this year Vatrano has more ES goals than Kakko has total points.

Yet another way to frame it is Frankie V is awful defensively and didnt really fit the first time he was a Ranger.

 

[duckpuck]

I was not aware of the bold.

Maybe, if ANA is interested in quality Ws with which to build/try as foundation pieces, and has surplus of picks,
MAYBE
instead of Kakko who we are 99+% sure to keep

instead of Zegras, who I would like to take a pass at if he is still leaning to coming back east in 2-ish yrs,
MAYBE
We can sell you Othmann for a premium?

Give me an overpay package that makes you wince but can live with
1st + Vats = stopgap thru next season + Helleson ++
for
Othmann + ?????

You are on brand for sure.

Yeah, didn't take the time for due diligence to identify . . .

Anytime you start a post like this, maybe delete the post?

 

[bl02]

How many ES points does Kakko have this year?

When you frame it like you did it almost sounds crazy to consider trading Kakko for Vatrano, right?

Another way to frame it is this year Vatrano has more ES goals than Kakko has total points.

Big Vatrano fan and his shot and motor are not debatable but trading Kakko probably weakens the Rangers. Yes I know he doesn't put up points like he should for a 2nd overall pick but bottom line is the Rangers are 29-8-2 with him in the lineup and barely a .500 with him out of the lineup. That is a huge disparity.
So for this years team and push for the playoffs I am not sure losing Kakko and gaining either Vatrano or Henrique makes them stronger. It surely doesn't for the future.

 

[Guyute]

Yet another way to frame it is Frankie V is awful defensively and didnt really fit the first time he was a Ranger.

Frank V is also approaching the wrong side of 30 and will want a bigger contract after next year.

Kakko is 23, great defensively, has plenty of untapped offensive potential (wait til he actually plays on the PP), and he’s cost-controlled for another several years.

I think the Rangers will trade Kakko this summer because they have a plethora of winger prospects that are close to NHL-ready, but they’ll get another young player or picks in return.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Frank V is also approaching the wrong side of 30 and will want a bigger contract after next year.

Kakko is 23, great defensively, has plenty of untapped offensive potential (wait til he actually plays on the PP), and he’s cost-controlled for another several years.

I think the Rangers will trade Kakko this summer because they have a plethora of winger prospects that are close to NHL-ready, but they’ll get another young player or picks in return.

What type of picks and prospects do you realistically think you’ll get?

 

[duckpuck]

Frank V is also approaching the wrong side of 30 and will want a bigger contract after next year.

Kakko is 23, great defensively, has plenty of untapped offensive potential (wait til he actually plays on the PP), and he’s cost-controlled for another several years.

I think the Rangers will trade Kakko this summer because they have a plethora of winger prospects that are close to NHL-ready, but they’ll get another young player or picks in return.

It just depends on whether NYR are trying to win this year and next. In that short period, Frank V is probably an upgrade. If the focus is on the long term, then you keep Kakko.

 

[Kupo]

The actual fact is he never got a chance esp as pivot betw Kreider + Zib as I specified.
THAT is the actual fact.
He wound up w/something like 4 concussions we know of
So take your derisive digs and put them where the sun don't shine

You could have put Boo between prime Brett Hull and Alex Ovechkin and he'd still suck. The reason why was cause he was never a good hockey player.

He was shitty in Michigan, shitty in Hartford and shitty here in NY. Even if there was chemistry, that wouldn't have made that big of the impact you think it would have had because at the end of the day, having some chemistry with your linemates doesn't morph you into a good hockey player.

Boo wasn't even good defensively. If he was, he could have found some sort of role in the NHL playing in the bottom 6.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I'm not sure why this is not enough from the Ducks perspective. Vatrano is a good player having a career year and Henrique is a good player but like 34. And the Ducks are rebuilding. What am I missing here?

 

[Guyute]

What type of picks and prospects do you realistically think you’ll get?

Easily a 1st

 

[bernmeister]

19 points in 76 career games. Never did anything to warrant a chance with top 6 talent.

Again, I will not allow you to create a false narrative.
He had min production here b'c he always played w/4th line black holes

And that is not the main pt, that was just to correct your shaded comment.

The pt was there is a theoretical model, one of multiples which can work...
driver of play + facilitator + scorer = productive line
more chemistry = better production
if fortunate w/enuf chem = synergy

On paper that line would work
kreid = driver
Boo = facilitator
Zib = scorer

Rs stupid to at least not try
no justification to not experiment

Besides their own picks (obviously high in each round) the Ducks have the B's 2nd (late), SJ's 3rd (high), and Pit's 3rd (mid). So we're probably talking about 6 picks in the top 80 or so.

I suspect they may be totally fine with and maybe even prefer future picks in exchange for their rentals. No one would turn down a late 1st of course, but proposals sending late 2nds or 3rds in this draft Anaheim's way .... They might do it, but it's probably not as tempting as it normally would be.



I could see Kakko going in the off-season in a hockey trade if they really don't think he's likely to become a top 6 guy. He's currently useful to the Rangers though, and I doubt there's an immediate upgrade to be had. But it does not make sense to move him for a rental or for futures now.

thanks for constructive feedback

You are on brand for sure.


Anytime you start a post like this, maybe delete the post?

or maybe not

 

[bernmeister]

You could have put Boo between prime Brett Hull and Alex Ovechkin and he'd still suck. The reason why was cause he was never a good hockey player.

He was shitty in Michigan, shitty in Hartford and shitty here in NY. Even if there was chemistry, that wouldn't have made that big of the impact you think it would have had because at the end of the day, having some chemistry with your linemates doesn't morph you into a good hockey player.

Boo wasn't even good defensively. If he was, he could have found some sort of role in the NHL playing in the bottom 6.

On this one we disagree, which is fine my friend
But there was no excuse to not try. None

It is not like we had to pay and acquire Nieves from elsewhere
We invested a 2nd drafting him b'c of his size, skating and passing combo

And again it is fair to rebut how much lack of production was due to him playing w/4th line turds

Big Vatrano fan and his shot and motor are not debatable but trading Kakko probably weakens the Rangers. Yes I know he doesn't put up points like he should for a 2nd overall pick but bottom line is the Rangers are 29-8-2 with him in the lineup and barely a .500 with him out of the lineup. That is a huge disparity.
So for this years team and push for the playoffs I am not sure losing Kakko and gaining either Vatrano or Henrique makes them stronger. It surely doesn't for the future.

all of this^

 

[HolyHagelin]

The OP is pie in the sky Ducks wishcasting. I will now catch up on the other 3 pages of this thread.

 

[clmetsfan]

Right, cuz why would you be interested in 30+ goals/year?

Because he's a disaster defensively and wouldn't come close to that level of production on NY's roster.

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

The OP is pie in the sky Ducks wishcasting. I will now catch up on the other 3 pages of this thread.

The OP is a Rangers fan and we tend to see a lot of this 'pining for ex-girlfriends' on our boards (Tarasenko/Kane/BuchnevIch/Zuccarello/Vatrano). Doesn't make it a good idea.

 

[Gliff]

Vatrano for a 1st is fair

Henrique for a 2nd is fair

50% retention for 3 months of Henrique’s salary should be worth a 3rd. Kakko ought to have mid-1st round value.

There’s no way you’re getting Kakko for that package, I’m sorry.

No chance he gets a mid 1st. He is a middle 6 winger at this point.

 

[HolyHagelin]

The OP is a Rangers fan and we tend to see a lot of this 'pining for ex-girlfriends' on our boards (Tarasenko/Kane/BuchnevIch/Zuccarello/Vatrano). Doesn't make it a good idea.

Yes i am seeing that, it’s like every other poster is Larry Brooks

 

[FiveTacos]

No chance he gets a mid 1st. He is a middle 6 winger at this point.

Late 1st, absolutely somebody would. Mid 1st or higher, those teams would probably rather roll the dice.

 

[AirGut]

The OP is pie in the sky Ducks wishcasting. I will now catch up on the other 3 pages of this thread.

I'm not a fan of this proposal I typed up at all but for some weird reason I envision Drury doing it and so I was trying to gauge some thoughts. With Verbeek having been at MSG the other night it got me feeling like this is some inevitability with Anaheim (hope I'm wrong).

Ideally, as a Rangers fan, I'd prefer Zegras over Henrique in this deal. Rangers would have to add, most likely Berard or Sykora maybe even more. Ducks fans most definitely would hate that.

 

[Gliff]

I'm not a fan of this proposal I typed up at all but for some weird reason I envision Drury doing it and so I was trying to gauge some thoughts. With Verbeek having been at MSG the other night it got me feeling like this is some inevitability with Anaheim (hope I'm wrong).

Ideally, as a Rangers fan, I'd prefer Zegras over Henrique in this deal. Rangers would have to add, most likely Berard or Sykora maybe even more. Ducks fans most definitely would hate that.

I bet you would lol. Let’s not derail the thread and leave Z out of it.

 

[smoneil]

I know this is HF but I'm surprised by the lack of urgency amongst Ranger fans...their top players are all over 30 and their window will close in probably 2 years or maybe 3. If there was ever a year to "go for it" this seems like the one given that no team looks head and shoulders above the pack.

The record is great this season, but look at the narrative of the season. Chytil lost for the year. Career worst performances by Kakko, Lindgren, and a dismal year (performance-wise if not stat wise) from Zibanejad. Uneven season from Shesterkin.

If this team has any chance at Lord Stanley, it will need Zib and that top line to be better AND Shesty to go God-Mode for the playoffs. If those two things happen, then it won't really matter who they pick up at the deadline. If neither of those two things happen, then it won't really matter who they pick up at the deadline. As such, throwing big resources at TDL pieces seems kind of dumb to a lot of us (particularly when the team desperately needs to bring in centers and defensemen to the prospect pool).

As for urgency, yeah, there are concerns about the ages of Kreider, Bread, and Zibanejad, but it isn't like they are 38 years old. Kreider's the oldest of the three, and he's still 32 years old. The team will also get some cap space to play with and have more flexibility with Trouba's contract soon (NMC to limited NTC). Plus there are several very good prospects coming up through the system that could slot throughout the four lines (Sykora, Berard, Perrault, Othmann on top of the three rookies in the lineup this year and young vets like Laf, Kakko, K'Andre Miller etc). So yeah, we're keeping an eye on the clock for those three guys at the top, but we still have a healthy chip pile and don't need to go all in on every hand.

 

[bernmeister]

I bet you would lol. Let’s not derail the thread and leave Z out of it.

Thread title is the 2 teams, not specific players
Thus anything based on those 2 teams is pertinent and not derailing