Recalled/Assigned: Nic Petan assigned to the Moose.

[libertarian]

Petan did at times, and Petan didn't at times.

He's a flawed player, not "not a player". There's a difference.

Which means he need time in the AHL to figure out his game. I am not a Petan hater, he was my favorite prospect until he made the team.
You say "Petan did at times, and Petan didn't at times."
The problem is the "didn't" happened way more then the "did". The way he has played over the last few years with the Jets has proven he does not belong on the team. Is there something there with Petan that eventually helps the team to become a winner? I hope so but right now he has not proven that he belongs in the NHL but hopefully the AHL will help him figure it out. Until then he belong in the AHL.

 

[garret9]

Which means he need time in the AHL to figure out his game. I am not a Petan hater, he was my favorite prospect until he made the team.
You say "Petan did at times, and Petan didn't at times."
The problem is the "didn't" happened way more then the "did". The way he has played over the last few years with the Jets has proven he does not belong on the team. Is there something there with Petan that eventually helps the team to become a winner? I hope so but right now he has not proven that he belongs in the NHL but the AHL will help him figure it out. until. That is if he ever does.

If being a flawed player means he needs time in the AHL to figure out his game, than there's not enough players to fill up the NHL...

 

[libertarian]

If being a flawed player means he needs time in the AHL to figure out his game, than there's not enough players to fill up the NHL...

Fair enough. Who does he replace? Who would you take out of the top six to give him his shot? Since he has proven he has no chemistry with any of the bottom six players we are doing him more harm then good by playing him in the bottom six. My point garret is there is no place for him now on the Jets at this moment. I am curious, is it bad for Petan to play top line minutes with the Moose right now and build confidence by playing big minutes in the 2nd best league in the world? Our goals for Petan are the same, from what you written you see him has a potential good NHLer, so do I. He has not proven that yet. I still believe he may be but right now he has not so the best thing for Petan is to play big minutes with the Moose until he has proven that he deserves a promotion to the Jets. When he has proven himself to be ready to help the club no matter what line he is playing on. I.E Perreault.

 

[garret9]

Fair enough. Who does he replace? Who would you take out of the top six to give him his shot? Since he has proven he has no chemistry with any of the bottom six players we are doing him more harm then good by playing him in the bottom six. My point garret is there is no place for him now on the Jets at this moment. I am curious, is it bad for Petan to play top line minutes with the Moose right now and build confidence by playing big minutes in the 2nd best league in the world? Our goals for Petan are the same, from what you written you see him has a potential good NHLer, so do I. He has not proven that yet. I still believe he may but right now he has not so the best thing for Petan is to play big minutes with the Moose until he has proven that he deserves a promotion to the Jets. Where he is ready to help the club no matter what line he is playing on. I.E Perreault.

Again, no one said he needs to be in the top-six. Honestly, there should be no doubt that Petan would be better than some players on the team, provided he's just not on the same line as Hendricks and Tanev. For example...

Top-six: Scheifele, Little, and 4/5 of Laine, Ehlers, Perreault, Wheeler, and Connor.

Bottom-six scoring line: The 1/5 from above not in top-six, Petan, and 1/4 of Dano, Armia, Copp, and (Lowry is possible, if you want to make the line more well-rounded as opposed to offensive).

Other bottom-six line: The 3/4 from above not on the other bottom-six line. Maybe even Tanev in the mix as he's been relatively better than last season.

I view the Jets better this way than they currently are.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

How does Petan help scoring exactly? I mean charts are great and all but... The problem with them is sometimes they are just wrong. Petan has done nothing in the NHL. Absolutely nothing. Talk about who he played with... Sure... Guess that's the excuse but even Matt Hendricks has contributed more to the Jets this season. Petan isnt an NHL player right now... Hes actually struggling to do much in the A... If he was this cant miss guy still... He would be lighting it up... Hes not. Hes pretty much a lost cause as far as im concerned... Bottom line... He was a good prospect when we drafted him... But... Along the way.. He was passed on the depth chart by better players.

 

[libertarian]

I view the Jets better this way than they currently are.

You may be right but even after tonight's loss the Jets have been good enough to be a top team in the league. While I understand your point of view since annalistic is your livelihood but I think the one part of annalistic that is never measured is the human factor. To be fair there are no numbers to measures this but that does not mean that it is not a major factor of a team's success. Sports is all about physical ability, drive, and skill. All can be measured by using math but the one factor that can't be quantified is the human factor. I think most people don't understand this which is why they would rather have a Petan or Roslovic type player instead of a Hendricks type player because the numbers say they should. The numbers are not always right because any equation that deal with human interaction that does not factor in the human condition will fail. This is true in politics (Trump) , economics and especially in sports where human emotions are always at a high level. To be honest this factor is what make sports interesting because without it we could put all the numbers into a computer and decide the winner without the bother of playing the games. To get back to Petan, he may be a benefit to the jets on a mathematical scale but he is not on a human scale (players and coaches trusting him) and since his skill and maybe the person himself has proven to the team that he is a borderline player in all areas at best so he does not belong on the team.

 

[garret9]

How does Petan help scoring exactly? I mean charts are great and all but... The problem with them is sometimes they are just wrong. Petan has done nothing in the NHL. Absolutely nothing. Talk about who he played with... Sure... Guess that's the excuse but even Matt Hendricks has contributed more to the Jets this season. Petan isnt an NHL player right now... Hes actually struggling to do much in the A... If he was this cant miss guy still... He would be lighting it up... Hes not. Hes pretty much a lost cause as far as im concerned... Bottom line... He was a good prospect when we drafted him... But... Along the way.. He was passed on the depth chart by better players.

This is actually what "charts" are really good for (really you should use the words "results").

When Petan was not with Thorburn or Tanev (affectionately called pylons for the rest of this reply), he paced at 2.0 points per 60 minutes at even strength. This accounts for approximately 50% of Petan's ice time. (FYI, he was about 0.6 when with one of those two players)

The average 1st liner scores at 2.0. 2nd liner 1.75. 3rd 1.5. 4th 1.0.

Now, don't confuse this as saying Petan is a 2.0 p/60 pace scoring talent. The sample is not what I'd call predictive. What it does say is that Petan scored pretty much as much as one could hope in those minutes, which is evidence that he's at least likely a decent point producer relative to icetime when with non pylon types.

You can't say Petan hasn't done anything in the NHL. He's essential scored just as much as we could hope for in those minutes. It would be unreasonable to expect more for those non-pylon minutes.

Now, you can point out that he was bad in those pylon minutes and did not meet expectations. But again, that was only 50% of the sample and before he even played or even in the Jets system, most of us would not expect "success" when hearing an undersized playmaker between two grinders.


One side thing I should add is the difference ice time impacts aggregate scoring. Half of Petan's NHL TOI is away from pylons with the higher scoring rate, but it represents less than a quarter of his games, because fourth lines (especially on the Jets) carry such low ATOI.

 

[Adam da bomb]

If Petan is an Nhler shouldn't he be lighting up the Ahl if we are bringing up anyone shouldn't it be Roslo who is 2nd in Ahl scoring. I mean that's if we want all offence because Petan doesn't bring much defensively.

 

[redneckjabronie]

If Petan is a terrible player, why is he still in the Jets system? Get rid of him now, do they actually think his market value will go up through the roof? His value isn't going to be any better than it is now.

Or are they simply afraid that by trading him, his motivation shoots up, gets in a better system, turns out to be a good player and they look like fools for getting little in return? Baertschi in Vancouver is a similar case, misused and treated poorly by Calgary, good player in Vancouver.

 

[TS Quint]

Notice how we don't talk (the all mighty) CORSI with Hendricks? He's playing well, players on the team from all walks like him from Lemieux to Wheeler.

We are winning and yet some still have a problem because Petan isn't in the line up. I was against it too when it first happened. But at this point there is no argument. Silly really.

 

[DashingDane]

Are we still talking about Petan. That's sooo last season

 

[garret9]

If Petan is an Nhler shouldn't he be lighting up the Ahl if we are bringing up anyone shouldn't it be Roslo who is 2nd in Ahl scoring. I mean that's if we want all offence because Petan doesn't bring much defensively.

It's not like Nic Petan's 0.66 p/gp in the AHL is bad. You are right though, that it is not Roslovic levels. But, I, or others, haven't argued that Petan is better than Roslovic. I have argued Petan could improve upon some on the roster, in specific circumstances that account for about 50% of his NHL career.

Personally, I'd be fine with both in the NHL.

This debate does seem like the ones I'm more used to in my past. It's the context and details that matter. Sometimes people are ignoring that context and details, exaggerating the argument, and then missing the whole point.
The team is not doomed to fail or succeed with or without. Probability is not destiny. The team may be slightly better one way or another, and that may differ if you think short or long term. Petan played as well as one could hope in one circumstance, and poorly in another. He could likely still do so.
At the very least that is promising of the future for him, just hopefully they don't miss it.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I don't know if .66 is bad. What I do know is, let's assume we want at least one checking line of Copp Lowry and Tanev than there is room for only one guy to give you 3 scoring lines. I would rather that 3rd line be guys who won't get pushed around and will still score, but, if that's not possible okay. I dislike Hendricks, but, I still think you need a gritty line.

 

[garret9]

I don't know if .66 is bad. What I do know is, let's assume we want at least one checking line of Copp Lowry and Tanev than there is room for only one guy to give you 3 scoring lines. I would rather that 3rd line be guys who won't get pushed around and will still score, but, if that's not possible okay. I dislike Hendricks, but, I still think you need a gritty line.

I don't.
In fact, I think it's moved past *think* at this point.
This also ignores that Copp-Tanev-Lowry is fairly gritty. What differentiates them and Hendricks isn't grit.

 

[Adam da bomb]

CTL is my gritty line.

 

[Weezeric]

I think petan is one of a number of players who is going to play the whole season with the moose and make the jets next season. Nothing wrong with that. Not every player needs to be contributing in the NHL at 21. With the depth the Jets have organizationally that's going to be a "problem" going forward.

There a lot of players with middle six upside drafted in later rounds coming through the system. Some will make it. Others won't. Some will be traded and have success elsewhere. A big part of success is having opportunity and there isn't enough to go around on the jets. 3/4 of their top six wingers are 21 and under right now. I think the jets like petan a lot otherwise he wouldn't have made the NHL the last few years out of training camp.

 

[10Ducky10]

I think petan is one of a number of players who is going to play the whole season with the moose and make the jets next season. Nothing wrong with that. Not every player needs to be contributing in the NHL at 21. With the depth the Jets have organizationally that's going to be a "problem" going forward.

There a lot of players with middle six upside drafted in later rounds coming through the system. Some will make it. Others won't. Some will be traded and have success elsewhere. A big part of success is having opportunity and there isn't enough to go around on the jets. 3/4 of their top six wingers are 21 and under right now. I think the jets like petan a lot otherwise he wouldn't have made the NHL the last few years out of training camp.

Are you taking bets?

Here's a stat ... 3 goals 16 assists 86 games.

 

[ffh]

nic petan wont be qualified next year since as of today there are about 5 players ahead of him on the depth charts that are not regulars. good luck in Europe, your game will translate fine there.

 

[JetsHomer]

Nic Petan is Kyle Wellwood reborn. Same exact styles and pros and negatives to their games. I know a lot of posters here hated Wellwood, but I always found him to be exceptionally underrated.

 

[CaptainChef]

When Petan was NOT with Thorburn or Tanev (affectionately called pylons for the rest of this reply), he paced at 2.0 points per 60 minutes at even strength. This accounts for approximately 50% of Petan's ice time. (FYI, he was about 0.6 when with one of those two players)

The average 1st liner scores at 2.0. 2nd liner 1.75. 3rd 1.5. 4th 1.0.
.

I don't know how many times these stats have been reinterated, yet the Petan-haters maintain he has been absolutely terrible offensively. Don't know how it can be any clearer, really, the guy has been mis-used throughout much of his NHL career.

Nobody is saying he needs to be in the top 6, but yes he deserves to be in the top 9 or at least playing with somewhat skilled linemates. Anything else, especially being asked to play with grinders, and he may as well be in the AHL. It's all we've ever been advocating for Petan, and the numbers back that up 100%.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

nic petan wont be qualified next year since as of today there are about 5 players ahead of him on the depth charts that are not regulars. good luck in Europe, your game will translate fine there.

Lol. Guys like Brendan Kichton, JC Lipon, Scott Kosmachuk, Eric O'Dell, Julian Melchiori, Ben Chiarot received QO's after their ELC yet Nic Petan won't? He'll get at least one more contract for sure. That's just standard procedure, and means nothing with regards to his NHL future.

 

[Board Bard]

Put Petan on the Jets fourth line right now. He'd probably do OK with Perrault and Armia. Hendricks had probably shot his wad for the season.

 

[JetsFan815]

Assist for Petan in today's game.

 

[Jimby]

So far with the Moose this year it looks like Petan has just one goal - an empty net goal. His shooting percentage is dead last on the team at 3.7% which is slightly better than his NHL career average. From the Moose games I have watched he needs to get the shot off quicker. Assists are nice but I still think he needs to score if he wants to work his way back up to the NHL. The Jets would have to be pretty devastated with injuries to get to the point where it was Petan's turn for a call up.

 

[libertarian]

. Petan played as well as one could hope in one circumstance, and poorly in another. He could likely still do so.
At the very least that is promising of the future for him, just hopefully they don't miss it.

MP is proving this false. A good player make his line mates better. Petan may someday be a MP type player that belongs in the NHL but Petan has yet to prove he can do this. Maybe he will in the future but he is not there yet. The Jets are a better team without Petan then they are with him. Hopefully he can become a player that can help the team but with how the bottom six and top six are playing right now the AHL may be the only place he belongs unless the Jets move him to another team.