Recalled/Assigned: Nic Petan assigned to the Moose.

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libertarian

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Not at all what Holden was doing, and you know it.

Yes he was. His point was because Pitt has a better record with out Crosby means that it means nothing that the Jets have a better record without Petan. The difference which I should not have to point out is Crosby has been the best player in the game for the last decade and Petan so far is a proven AHLer.
 

CorgisPer60

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My view is that for players who are good, playing with “slugs” isn’t an excuse. Perrault sure isn’t using it as an excuse and is feasting on the easier opposition matchups he’s getting playing on the 4th line. Perrault not only isn’t using Hendricks and armia as an excuse he’s arguably elevating their play. In any event they have no problem themselves connecting for points with Perrault.

I’m pretty sure Petan played with Armia when he was up with the Jets and Dani too so he didn’t even have the “anchor” of Hendrix.

Perreault is an amazing player, proven top 6, that can drive his line and elevate his linemates. Petan is a complimentary player that lives and dies by his linemates. He plays worse on the 4th line than he does on the 2nd. That's the difference. Petan needs to learn how to drive offense on his line to be more effective.
 

mcpw

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Yes he was. His point was because Pitt has a better record with out Crosby means that it means nothing that the Jets have a better record without Petan. The difference which I should not have to point out is Crosby has been the best player in the game for the last decade and Petan so far is a proven AHLer.

Just don't bring up garbage stats and we won't have to go through this.
 

SLAYER

Cilantro Connoisseur
Oct 26, 2012
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His point was because Pitt has a better record with out Crosby means that it means nothing that the Jets have a better record without Petan.

Right, but this has nothing to do with comparing Crosby to Petan, and everything to do with showing how flawed your logic is. If you can't understand that, then we should probably just stop right here.

"Team X has a better record without Player Y" is such a bullshit stat.
 

CorgisPer60

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Forget the fact that he kills penalties and we are over 90% on the pk with him in line up.

Which is more indicative of the goalie stopping shots than the team is a PKing, because they still give up the league leading amount of shots 4v5. It's scary. No one else comes close. The PK is being buoyed by Hellebuyck. The team is being buoyed by Hellebuyck. Remember when Pavelec got MVP on the team? That's Helle now, only Helle deserves it.
 
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libertarian

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Right, but this has nothing to do with comparing Crosby to Petan, and everything to do with showing how flawed your logic is. If you can't understand that, then we should probably just stop right here.

"Team X has a better record without Player Y" is such a bull**** stat.

I was comparing two forth line players and if you read the entire post I mention that Hendricks has little to do with it with his play but what he brings to the team as a leader of the bottom six. Bring Crosby to the discussion was silly.
 

SLAYER

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I was comparing two forth line players and if you read the entire post I mention that Hendricks has little to do with it with his play but what he brings to the team as a leader of the bottom six. Bring Crosby to the discussion was silly.

Obviously you've missed the point once again, I'mma stop trying to explain this to you.
 
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ffh

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Perreault is an amazing player, proven top 6, that can drive his line and elevate his linemates. Petan is a complimentary player that lives and dies by his linemates. He plays worse on the 4th line than he does on the 2nd. That's the difference. Petan needs to learn how to drive offense on his line to be more effective.
Biggest myth around here. Petan plays better with better players. No he doesn't. If he did they wouldn't move up thorburn last 2 years during games cause of injuries. And dont think guys like scheifele and wheeler dont have a say in who they would rather play with because of a in game injury. Thorburn copp all get to play on top 6 b4 petan. He is a ahl player who has yet to crack an nhl roster.
 

CorgisPer60

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Biggest myth around here. Petan plays better with better players. No he doesn't. If he did they wouldn't move up thorburn last 2 years during games cause of injuries. And dont think guys like scheifele and wheeler dont have a say in who they would rather play with because of a in game injury. Thorburn copp all get to play on top 6 b4 petan. He is a ahl player who has yet to crack an nhl roster.

You're using game-day injuries and a coach's whims to justify why Petan isn't a good player. Thorburn's game is easy to understand and he's easier to plug into the lineup. He had a good couple of games, then went back down to the 4th line. He was healthy scratched for stretches last year as well. He's doing the same thing with Tanev this season. Petan needs to be better, but there's no denying that he's better than Hendricks.
 

Monkey D Luffy

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Perreault is an amazing player, proven top 6, that can drive his line and elevate his linemates. Petan is a complimentary player that lives and dies by his linemates. He plays worse on the 4th line than he does on the 2nd. That's the difference. Petan needs to learn how to drive offense on his line to be more effective.

Exactly, I'm glad we can come to an agreement
 

Flair Hay

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All the arguments over stats and line driving and Hendricks intangibles are kind of moot now, no? Hendricks is playing 4th line/ PK role great for now.

And I know Roslovic has been on the wing lately. But you have to think he is the first one coming up if Scheifele or Little went down no?

Petan can probably score like a top six if he has first line linemates. But you can say that for a lot of guys. People still shitting on Hendricks amuses me.
 

garret9

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Biggest myth around here. Petan plays better with better players. No he doesn't. If he did they wouldn't move up thorburn last 2 years during games cause of injuries. And dont think guys like scheifele and wheeler dont have a say in who they would rather play with because of a in game injury. Thorburn copp all get to play on top 6 b4 petan. He is a ahl player who has yet to crack an nhl roster.

If you score more, and your linemates score more, and your opponents score less...
What would you call it?
 

Holden Caulfield

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Just don't bring up garbage stats and we won't have to go through this.

Exactly this. Whether it's in regards to Crosby, or Hendricks, or Enstrom, or Petan, or Ran_y Jones (who had a godly record with him in the lineup IIRC, it could have been some other plug like Meech or Flood), or ANY PLAYER IN NHL, record with and without is a completely garbage stat. It does not show a single thing and is incredibly misleading at best.
 

libertarian

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If you score more, and your linemates score more, and your opponents score less...
What would you call it?

I get your point and I respect your knowledge of annalistic but Petan has no role with the Jets with the way he plays now. He can't make the bottom 6 players he is playing with better and he is not good enough to move anyone out of our top 6 players out of their position. Right now he belongs in the AHL and I really hope that he figures out how to be successful at the professional level but until he does he is playing right where he belongs.
 
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DoingItCoolKiwi

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If this is true then Petan is a career AHLer. It is up to Petan to find a way to the NHL, so far he has not been able to do that. Using MP as a template to make the show is not a bad idea.
There are great arguments to be made that he should be in NHL right now, and you are actually telling me he is career AHLer if he doesn't reinvent his game.
 

libertarian

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There are great arguments to be made that he should be in NHL right now, and you are actually telling me he is career AHLer if he doesn't reinvent his game.

Yes he has proven that he can't perform in the NHL. Again tonight MP has proven that good player can perform no matter their team mates. I was a big fan of Petan but he has proven so far that he is not a NHL player. Maybe he can be but right now all he is a AHL player and unless he can prove differently that is all he will be. I don't care what the annalistic say he can do, since he has proven he can't perform at the NHL level right now he is a career AHL player.
 
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Analyst365

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Yes he has proven that he can't preform in the NHL. Again tonight MP has proven that good player can perform no matter their team mates. I was a big fan of Petan but he has proven so far that he is not a NHL player. Maybe he can be but right now all he is a AHL player and unless he can prove differently that is all he will be. I don't care what the annalistic say he can do, since he has proven he can't do it at the NHL level right now he is a career AHL player.

Agree with this 100%. Petan is a classic HF Boards NHL player, all tertiary stats and what-could-he-do potential. Perrault is an NHL player.
 
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garret9

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I get your point and I respect your knowledge of annalistic but Petan has no role with the Jets with the way he plays now. He can't make the bottom 6 players he is playing with better and he is not good enough to move anyone out of our top 6 players out of their position. Right now he belongs in the AHL and I really hope that he figures out how to be successful at the professional level but until he does he is playing right where he belongs.

That's not necessarily true and misses people's actual argument.

It's not a bottom-6/top-6 thing.

Petan played well, and had linemates who benefited with him, when Petan was with any mix of Dano, Armia, and Perreault. My guess is the pattern would hold with Connor and Roslovic as well. These players easily could form a bottom-six line with Petan (could does not mean should).

Petan played poorly, and had linemates who suffered with him, when Petan was with any mix of Thorburn and Tanev. My guess is the pattern would hold with Hendricks as well. These players Petan should in no shape or form play with.

Copp seemed to be an exception, where it dependent on the third player. Petan did poorly and his linemates did worse for it when the third was in the second group, but the opposite was true when the third was in the first group. My guess is that the pattern would hold for Lowry.

When you look at the players, it simply seems like a chemistry thing. Petan has weaknesses that makes him dependent on players to recover pucks, win battles, and finish his passes without simply playing a dump-n-chase, cycle, and grind game. That said, Petan seems to be able to maximize and optimize players who can do this.
 
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libertarian

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When you look at the players, it simply seems like a chemistry thing. Petan has weaknesses that makes him dependent on players to recover pucks, win battles, and finish his passes without simply playing a dump-n-chase, cycle, and grind game. That said, Petan seems to be able to maximize and optimize players who can do this.

Sorry but the weakness of not being able to " win battles, and finish his passes without simply playing a dump-n-chase, cycle, and grind game. " means he is not NHL ready. He has to learn one or more of these skills to be a full time productive NHL player
 
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garret9

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Sorry but the weakness of not being able to " win battles, and finish his passes without simply playing a dump-n-chase, cycle, and grind game. " means he is not NHL ready. He has to learn one or more of these skills to be a full time productive NHL player

That's not true. No one is a complete player. All players have weaknesses.

What makes a player a bonafide NHLer is if they produce results above replacement level.

Petan did at times, and Petan didn't at times.

He's a flawed player, not "not a player". There's a difference.
 
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DoingItCoolKiwi

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Yes he has proven that he can't perform in the NHL. Again tonight MP has proven that good player can perform no matter their team mates. I was a big fan of Petan but he has proven so far that he is not a NHL player. Maybe he can be but right now all he is a AHL player and unless he can prove differently that is all he will be. I don't care what the annalistic say he can do, since he has proven he can't perform at the NHL level right now he is a career AHL player.
"Yes he has proven that he can't perform in the NHL".
He has proven he cant perform in nhl checking line. He has not even had a chance to play with skilled offensive line where he excells in.

"Again tonight MP has proven that good player can perform no matter their team mates."
No one has ever said Petan is even close to as good as MP, so I dont know how Perreault's performances are relevant.

"Maybe he can be but right now all he is a AHL player and unless he can prove differently that is all he will be."
You say that he is a career ahler and then you say maybe he is not. AHL is the best place for him right now but that doesnt make him a career ahler.

"since he has proven he can't perform at the NHL level right now he is a career AHL player."
So you thought Connor was a career ahler too after he wasnt able to perform in NHL last season?
 
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