Value of: Nazem Kadri

[WesMcCauley]

The Leafs were a top 10 PK. They don't need Kadri there. 5on5 he's excellent at shutting down other teams' top lines.

Says who? Just curious here... Leafs score a good amount with him on the ice but they give up alot of goals with him on the ice aswell. He isnt a shutdown center if you actually mean shutting down other teams top players and not just playing against other teams top players?

Example:
Kadri 5v5 on ice stats: goals for 2,6 and goals against 2,8. I have no clue how anyone can say he is a shutdown center. I think he is a good player but he is not a shutdown center.

Derek Stepan 5v5 on ice stats: goals for 2,5 and goals against 1,8. Thats a shutdown center.

How can you be called a shutdown center when you allow goals against at the rate Kadri does?

 

[KingCanadain1976]

WHAT? Malkin is a franchise C playing the 2C role because they have Crosby.

and Carter is behind kopitar Theses are centers that deserve the talk of 1c playing 2c spot not Kadri

 

[Kurtz]

Says who? Just curious here... Leafs score a good amount with him on the ice but they give up alot of goals with him on the ice aswell. He isnt a shutdown center if you actually mean shutting down other teams top players and not just playing against other teams top players?

Example:
Kadri 5v5 on ice stats: goals for 2,6 and goals against 2,8. I have no clue how anyone can say he is a shutdown center. I think he is a good player but he is not a shutdown center.

Derek Stepan 5v5 on ice stats: goals for 2,5 and goals against 1,8. Thats a shutdown center.

How can you be called a shutdown center when you allow goals against at the rate Kadri does?

What's the average goals against rate for shutdown centers?

 

[TBC]

and Carter is behind kopitar Theses are centers that deserve the talk of 1c playing 2c spot not Kadri

I don't even understand what you're trying to say.

Malking = Franchise C
Carter = Low end 1C
Kadri = High end 2C

 

[KingCanadain1976]

he was selected to canada to partner with doughty yet was a healthy scratch. he wouldnt even be in the convo for team canada if they were going to the olympics if the NHL was going.

a year ago yes, kadri +. comparing what both guys did, not anymore.


gotta love the kadris #'s are inflated in TO numbers, and then completely ignoring Muzzins being inflated by DOughty

He was still selected so team Canada thought he was the 7th best canadain defense man He is a top pairing defense man. Go back and look at the number for the year Muzzin played with doughty and then look at his numbers when not paired with doughty :O wow looky there there actually better without drew who da thunk it. I love that people want to assume things in here without actually going back for some proof drew and muzzin hasnt been a regular pairing sense we won the cup FACT

 

[Halla]

Check out the career and get back to me One bad season Kopitar is better He has won the best defensive player award and nominated for it several other times. Get back to me when kadri even gets nominated

do you seriously not detect the sarcasm of my post.
you are using +/- to gauge a players defensive abilities while arguing against members that probably watched 70+ games that kadri played the past season.

Kopitar is a top 5 defensive C. He was -10. you can be a good defensive player and still be a -. Using Kadris -7 to say he is bad defensively is called box score watching and is just plain silly.

 

[Halla]

He was still selected so team Canada thought he was the 7th best canadain defense man He is a top pairing defense man. Go back and look at the number for the year Muzzin played with doughty and then look at his numbers when not paired with doughty :O wow looky there there actually better without drew who da thunk it. I love that people want to assume things in here without actually going back for some proof drew and muzzin hasnt been a regular pairing sense we won the cup FACT

Even on the PP, where most points are found?

Muzzin absolutely did not play like a top pairing defenseman last year. advanced stats are bad, only 28 pts, -21 (theres a stat you love so much). hypocritical much?

 

[Halla]

Says who? Just curious here... Leafs score a good amount with him on the ice but they give up alot of goals with him on the ice aswell. He isnt a shutdown center if you actually mean shutting down other teams top players and not just playing against other teams top players?

Example:
Kadri 5v5 on ice stats: goals for 2,6 and goals against 2,8. I have no clue how anyone can say he is a shutdown center. I think he is a good player but he is not a shutdown center.

Derek Stepan 5v5 on ice stats: goals for 2,5 and goals against 1,8. Thats a shutdown center.

How can you be called a shutdown center when you allow goals against at the rate Kadri does?

did stepan play against the top line every night?

 

[thewave]

Great defensive centers are not minus players Kadri is -26 -7 this past year I agree hes getting better but a far cry from great defensively

-7 against top lines is respectable. He was never intended to be a 1C but when your 2C can have that measure of success against top lines you run with it. Kopitar was a -10 this year and most 1C if you look it up right now were under +10. Point being its a respectable showing for a 4m player to handle that workload.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

do you seriously not detect the sarcasm of my post.
you are using +/- to gauge a players defensive abilities while arguing against members that probably watched 70+ games that kadri played the past season.

Kopitar is a top 5 defensive C. He was -10. you can be a good defensive player and still be a -. Using Kadris -7 to say he is bad defensively is called box score watching and is just plain silly.

im not saying Kadri is bad defensively I said hes making great strides in the last year to get better defensively However one year does not make him great defensively To be great defensively you need to do year in year out and get mentions in award voting like kopitar has. I think leaf fans are getting the wrong idea on how i view Kadri I like his defensive and feisty side. I would love to acquire him to play against McDavid 6 times a year for the next decade or so. However right now saying hes a great defensive player is a stretch imo to be called great you need to do something great for more then one year.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Even on the PP, where most points are found?

Muzzin absolutely did not play like a top pairing defenseman last year. advanced stats are bad, only 28 pts, -21 (theres a stat you love so much). hypocritical much?

yup drew first pp with martinez or a forward One bad year nice cherry picking As i said him and martinez didn't play well together

 

[KingCanadain1976]

-7 against top lines is respectable. He was never intended to be a 1C but when your 2C can have that measure of success against top lines you run with it. Kopitar was a -10 this year and most 1C if you look it up right now were under +10. Point being its a respectable showing for a 4m player to handle that workload.

Again one year does not make a player great sorry I have acknowledged his better play this past year but one year doesn't make you great sorry

 

[CupofOil]

Well this thread went to crap real fast.

Kadri would return a great piece. Think like a #1/Elite #2 defenseman.
He's a borderline #1c signed to a great contract long term.

That said, I have no desire to see him traded for anything short of an insane overpayment.

We'll solve our defense without trading Nazem.

He's not a borderline #1C. He has been in the league a long time and has generally been a 15-20 goal, 45-50 point center who is ok defensively.

He had a great year and was legit beast in the playoffs but one great year doesn't all of a sudden vault him into borderline #1C/one of the best shutdown centers in the league status and certainly not even remotely in the realm of being worth a #1 Dman.

I understand why Leafs fans want to keep him but you need to be realistic about his value. If he repeats this level of play again next season, then we're talking about a legit, elite #2 shutdown center.

 

[firstemperor]

I think leaf fans are getting the wrong idea on how i view Kadri I like his defensive and feisty side. I would love to acquire him to play against McDavid 6 times a year for the next decade or so. However right now saying hes a great defensive player is a stretch imo to be called great you need to do something great for more then one year.

It's context, as mentioned earlier in this thread, Bozak has scored at the same rate as #2C's now consistently for a while now. Not many label him as a #2C, he's labelled as a middle 6 C-high end #3C on a good team.

Kadri is someone who's development is trending upwards, especially given the context within how he was used in the past. A lot of this is Babcock utilizing him correctly and not stunting his growth internally.

Lastly, there is zero chance we would deal him for Muzzin, at least on the leafs end. Not only do we not need a LHD but simply from a valuation perspective, Kadri has a fair advantage in value versus Muzzin even without factoring his team-friendly deal.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

He's not a borderline #1C. He has been in the league a long time and has generally been a 15-20 goal, 45-50 point center who is ok defensively.

He had a great year and was legit beast in the playoffs but one great year doesn't all of a sudden vault him into borderline #1C/one of the best shutdown centers in the league status and certainly not even remotely in the realm of being worth a #1 Dman.

I understand why Leafs fans want to keep him but you need to be realistic about his value. If he repeats this level of play again next season, then we're talking about a legit, elite #2 shutdown center.

ty you put it better then i have.

 

[htpwn]

Says who? Just curious here... Leafs score a good amount with him on the ice but they give up alot of goals with him on the ice aswell. He isnt a shutdown center if you actually mean shutting down other teams top players and not just playing against other teams top players?

Example:
Kadri 5v5 on ice stats: goals for 2,6 and goals against 2,8. I have no clue how anyone can say he is a shutdown center. I think he is a good player but he is not a shutdown center.

Derek Stepan 5v5 on ice stats: goals for 2,5 and goals against 1,8. Thats a shutdown center.

How can you be called a shutdown center when you allow goals against at the rate Kadri does?

I think you'd need to take into account quality of competition and a team's defense core/goaltending before drawing any conclusion. I do agree, though, that Kadri's defensive abilities are overrated (just one Leafs fan's opinion). He's come a long way since when he entered the league and he is, all things considered, pretty solid at that end of the ice. But I wouldn't go so far to call him a "shutdown centre." Nevertheless, he's a very valuable player. He's coming off a 30G/61P career high (and his shot generation in 2015-2016 also had him close to a 30 goal pace if not for a career low SH%) and is a total pain in the ass to play against. The best comparable for him may well be a Brad Marchand-lite and that's a pretty valuable player to have in the fold.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

It's context, as mentioned earlier in this thread, Bozak has scored at the same rate as #2C's now consistently for a while now. Not many label him as a #2C, he's labelled as a middle 6 C-high end #3C on a good team.

Kadri is someone who's development is trending upwards, especially given the context within how he was used in the past. A lot of this is Babcock utilizing him correctly and not stunting his growth internally.

Lastly, there is zero chance we would deal him for Muzzin, at least on the leafs end. Not only do we not need a LHD but simply from a valuation perspective, Kadri has a fair advantage in value versus Muzzin even without factoring his team-friendly deal.

bozak is a below average 2 c and good 3c on a contender imo Yes i agree Babcock has a lot to do with Kadri value and play trending upwards I have been a fan of Kadri before when his value was low I had a good feeling the right coach would bring out his feisty side *would have love to see sutter coach him

I never once said hes a fit on Toronto end Its a running joke between me and lifer that kadri + for muzzin. As i told him and will say the same to you I only deal with those who are asking about a muzzin to the leafs deal Its not up to me to question why your team wants him only deal with the ones that do. I disagree Muzzin would be the best defense man on the leafs if the kings trade him there. Kadri would only be the 3rd best center if la got him. This to me means Muzzin is more valuable . Also contracts are a wash at best Look at what top teams defense man make then compare to 3rd best centers. ok fine even 2c s which Kadri would end up playing You would see muzzin is slightly even better value then Kadri

 

[BruinLVGA]

Great additions to the thread.

Maybe try suggesting something instead of just telling people they're wrong?

Glad to hear that you got appointed to give grades on the posts of this thread. Congratulations on the promotion, eh?

Ok... Let's see...

Roman Josi: turns 27 tomorrow (happy birthday, Roman!)... Signed at 4.0m...He is a top 1 D, an elite one at that (easily top 10 in the league)... Highest minutes logging player for Nashville, a team currently playing in the finals... He is good every year for 50-60 points... A highly dynamic D that drives the offense... A franchise level defenseman.

Nazem Kadri: turns 27 in October... Signed at 4.5m... He is a two way center, not even close to being elite: apart from this last season (career year alert), I would say a mid-to-lower level 2C... Good for 17 minutes a night... Good for 17-20 goals and 40-50 points throughout his career (on the Bruins, he would take over 3C, where Spooner, a 40-50 points center, is)... Not a franchise level forward.

To sum it up: elite, top 1 LHD, signed at less money & on average produces more points than the forward he is compared to here value-wise... VS... mid/low level two way 2C, signed at more money & on average produces less points. Who do you think has more value????? I didn't think that I had to spell out the OBVIOUS. Done it just for you.

Even if Kadri would somehow keep on putting out 30 goals & 60 points from now on, Josi would still have more value, because franchise 1D >>>>> 60 points C.

 

[bigbabybuda]

Kadri is and will continue to be a good low end 1C/elite 2 for the foreseeable future. Those who have watched him play every night for the last 5+ years and know what to look for know that he will more than likely continue to put up numbers close to what he did last year.

If you see major regression in his numbers coming next year you're a stat watcher and probably have watched only a handful of Leaf games over the years. He was playing with the worst linemates and horrible coaching on a tire fire of a team for forever. Since Babcock has arrived he has taken off and there is noting to suggest that will change. Nothing!

That all said, his value is not that of a true number 1D man and certainly not Romi Josi. That is ridiculous, as Josi is a top 15 Dman in the league. He could garner a return of a potential number 1 D if he were moved for someone who is young and has not reached his potential (Similar to Jones, not quite as good) or an established number 2ish guy.

I don't see us moving Kadri. He is a leader on the team. Physical, Cheap, puts up points, draws penalty's and is way better defensively than people will give him credit for. Babcock loves and well I have no desire to move Nylander or Marner I'm 99% certain they're more likely to be moved than Kadri ever will be. Kadri will be a Leaf until he retires or Baccock retires.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kadri is and will continue to be a good low end 1C/elite 2 for the foreseeable future. Those who have watched him play every night for the last 5+ years and know what to look for know that he will more than likely continue to put up numbers close to what he did last year.

If you see major regression in his numbers coming next year you're a stat watcher and probably have watched only a handful of Leaf games over the years. He was playing with the worst linemates and horrible coaching on a tire fire of a team for forever. Since Babcock has arrived he has taken off and there is noting to suggest that will change. Nothing!

That all said, his value is not that of a true number 1D man and certainly not Romi Josi. That is ridiculous, as Josi is a top 15 Dman in the league. He could garner a return of a potential number 1 D if he were moved for someone who is young and has not reached his potential (Similar to Jones, not quite as good) or an established number 2ish guy.

I don't see us moving Kadri. He is a leader on the team. Physical, Cheap, puts up points, draws penalty's and is way better defensively than people will give him credit for. Babcock loves and well I have no desire to move Nylander or Marner I'm 99% certain they're more likely to be moved than Kadri ever will be. Kadri will be a Leaf until he retires or Baccock retires.

Saying Kadri will be a Leaf until either he or Babcock retires is overdoing it some. Other than that you nailed it IMO.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Well this thread went to crap real fast.

Kadri would return a great piece. Think like a #1/Elite #2 defenseman.
He's a borderline #1c signed to a great contract long term.

That said, I have no desire to see him traded for anything short of an insane overpayment.

We'll solve our defense without trading Nazem.

Bolded is a classic, textbook example of homer glasses and subsequent distortion of reality.

His usage is tougher than Matthews. He doesn't even play with Matthews. What does Matthews have to do with anything?

He would score 20 goals without question in L.A. The only way there may be room for the smallest hint of uncertainty is if you take him off both PP units and play him minimal minutes.

Before this season, Kadri hit 20 goals in his career ONCE. In 6 seasons.

Yes he is lmao.

When a player scores 30 goals they are a 30 goal scorer.
When a player plays a shutdown role for an entire season and succeeds he is a shutdown centre until he stops being one.

Technically, the bolded is correct. However I will just leave a name here: David Clarkson.

 

[LeafGrief]

Bolded is a classic, textbook example of homer glasses and subsequent distortion of reality.



Before this season, Kadri hit 20 goals in his career ONCE. In 6 seasons.



Technically, the bolded is correct. However I will just leave a name here: David Clarkson.

Are you actually comparing Kadri to Clarkson right now? That's using the worst example possible in effort to make a "point".

Kadri had two seasons of under 30 games, followed by 18 goals in the lockout year (I'd bump that up to 20 for good measure), 20 in 13-14 and then under 20 on the dumpster fire teams that drafted 4th and 1st overall. There is no arguing that he had a career year this year, but Leafs fans who have been watching him for years knew that it was only a matter of time until he broke out (again). Maybe when you're done here you want to go over to the Wild boards and compare Granlund to Clarkson?

 

[BruinLVGA]

Are you actually comparing Kadri to Clarkson right now? That's using the worst example possible in effort to make a "point".

Kadri had two seasons of under 30 games, followed by 18 goals in the lockout year (I'd bump that up to 20 for good measure), 20 in 13-14 and then under 20 on the dumpster fire teams that drafted 4th and 1st overall. There is no arguing that he had a career year this year, but Leafs fans who have been watching him for years knew that it was only a matter of time until he broke out (again). Maybe when you're done here you want to go over to the Wild boards and compare Granlund to Clarkson?

Comprehension problem?

Guy says "a dude scores 30 goals, dude IS a 30 goals scorer". I says "true from a technical point of view, however beware that one 30 goals season by itself means nothing, see Clarkson" (an example Leafs fans should know WELL). Compared nobody to nobody. Try reading it again.

 

[Morgs]

I'm sure if an offer centered around Nylander was ever made, Josi would already be a life right now.

What Josi is as a defenseman currently is what we can only hope and pray Nylander becomes as a winger/center.

As much as I love Willy, you take Josi. The guy is only 26 and is a top 5 defenseman in this league. I would be crying tears of joy if Poile was ever stupid/drunk enough to do this deal.

Josi is not a Top-5 defenseman in the league, and no, I wouldn't trade Nylander for him.

 

[LeafGrief]

Comprehension problem?

Guy says "a dude scores 30 goals, dude IS a 30 goals scorer". I says "true from a technical point of view, however beware that one 30 goals season by itself means nothing, see Clarkson" (an example Leafs fans should know WELL). Compared nobody to nobody. Try reading it again.

So what's your point? You've used literally the worst example ever to effectively illustrate the "technicality" of Kadri's 30 goal label. What's your point? Are you saying that Kadri is not going to do it again? That it was a fluke? You made the "factual" but boneheaded point that Kadri only scored 20 once before, which I take to mean that you are doubting Kadri's ability as a player. So do you have a point with regards to Kadri or are you just smugly bringing up Clarkson in the name of semantics and labels?