Message sent to Season Ticket Holders from Kevin Lowe

[dawgbone]

You are nuts, I would take the rookies over Eaton 8 days of the week.

For 1 year?

I wouldn't.

For 4 years from now?

That's a different argument. There aren't many young defencemen who help a team win at 20, or 23, and neither Smid nor Greene are one of those kinds of young defencemen.

 

[Jesus]

No, he's alot better than Greene and Smid. Eaton's just an example of a very easy move that would have paid off because our defence was so bad.

To start the season we had Staios, Smith, Tjarqvist, Bergeron, plus we had Greene (who everyone here seems to have loved and wanted developed), Smid (who did honesty play damn good for us in the beginning of the season and of course everyone here loved him) and Hejda (who has played pretty decent). Without hindsight WHY would Lowe bring in Eaton at the beginning of the season???

 

[The Rage]

I'm speaking english, but apparantly you're still not understanding anything I'm saying. I can see you're angry, and perhaps that's why your arguments aren't making any sense.
Lowe put money on the table for Spacek. He decided to play elsewhere for the same amount. Spacek admitted in the papers his decision wasn't based on money. Lowe put $7 million down as an offer to Chara. This likewise was reported in the papers. Chara chose to play in Boston. Lowe went out and signed Sykora to add to the team's offence. He was the first-shot scorer everyone had been asking for in the past. Before that Lowe went out and secured Roloson and Pisani long-term. Both players performed excellently in the playoffs and both were well rewarded for it. He also made sure all our RFAs were signed and then to the surprise (and delight) of all, he signed Hemsky long term.
After writing all this, how can you possibly say he hasn't been willing to spend the money? Its pretty clear to many, but obviously not everyone, that the team is willing to spend the money on players they feel are worth it and will improve the team (Pronger, Peca, Roloson, Hemsky, etc...). That doesn't mean they'll go and blow millions to overpay for someone who isn't going to have an impact equal to his paycheck. Of course, you never know how well someone will perform for your team, but you can judge pretty well that some players weren't worth what teams like Toronto were willing to pay. So sorry, no $4 million for a McKee.

At the end of the day the payroll was the lowest in the division. We will finish last in the division. There is a direct causal effect. Some players may have turned down our offers, but there were many reasonable short term deals we could have made (Markov, Eaton) that would have still kept our payroll below Calgary's but would have helped us a lot.

I don't see how the level of the player makes any difference in regards to the situation. Both players wanted out. Both had to be traded. The situation is very comparable.

Mike Comrie is a dime a dozen. Soft minutes and PP guy who strugled here at ES even with soft minutes. Proner is, im, the best defenseman in the league, and he's far from the highet paid. Outside of Crosby and Ovenchkin, who does have more trade value than a Pronger signed up cheap long term? I a cap world, that undervalued contract is massive.

Are these the best arguments you can come up with? Lowe knew Pronger had expressed unhappiness. He did not know he was going to demand a trade, let alone leak this to the media. That's why Pronger's move came as such a shock. At worst, Lowe probably felt that if Pronger did approach him with a trade demand, he'd have some time to deal with it and start working on a trade privately. Pronger's leak made that impossible. I don't know how you would expect to know about the trade demand when the first anyone heard of it, including Lowe, was in the papers.

Luongo had already been traded by the time Pronger's demand had even sunk in. It was an impossibility. Get over it already. Who was every other player available Rage? Please enlighten us. Fact is you have no idea. Neither do I. But we do know that the players being offered in exchange for Pronger which showed up in newspapers were not the star players you had listed.

I'll say this again and again. I don't know who was available. I listed some possibilities; players who had less trade value than Pronger. However, if Smid and Lupul was the best offer possible, then every other GM in the league is an idiot. The more likely explanation is that Lowe messed up.

Yet another brilliant argument. We got a young forward coming off a 28 goal season, a blue chip defensive prospect, a 1st round pick and another potential 1st rounder. Apparantly no other team was willing to offer as good a deal as that, so we can let your imagination come to a conclusion of how much worse it could have been. Almost every hockey analyst and member of this forum were expecting improvement this season from Lupul. No one expected he would play as poorly as he has. Arguments stemming from hindsight are useless.

Hindsight? At the time I was vehemantly against the move. Lupul is a total wimp out there, as soft on the puck as anybody, and horrible defensively. He's not even that good on the powerplay (like most soft minutes guys have to be). Even if he scored more goals he'd be the second of Anson Carter.

Everything I posted was reported in the papers. The only thing I don't know was what all the different offers from other teams were. But I believe Lowe is an intelligent person who knows what he's doing, probably more so than anyone here.

And I'm sure if better deals were available, he would have taken them. Its easy for some people to react to the situation by saying, "well, Lowe made a stupid decision" when they don't know the facts. I choose to give the professional GM the benefit of the doubt.
Why didn't teams offer more? Well, try re-reading my first post. Like I said before, most GMs probably felt they would do better going after one of the UFAs available without having to give up anyone in return. Given the chance to sign Jovanovski for $7 million or trade a combination of a star/young player/prospect and/or picks for a $6 million Pronger, it seems like the other teams decided it was best to hold on their players.

The flaw in that logic is that most teams didn't have the cap room to sign Chara or Jovo. However, most teams could make the finances work by sending a star the other way.

Let's remember that after seeing Carolina and Buffalo in the playoffs, the mantra of many hockey people was "depth" going into last pre-season. In hindsight, I'm sure there are a few GMs who regret not trying to land Pronger. Toronto in particular, shelled out some huge dollars for McCabe, Kubina and Gill. Now, none of those players appear worth their contract.
Lastly, you assume that every team in the league was capable of taking on a $6 million contract. That clearly wasn't the case.

A team like Atlanta could have dumped salary AND gained Pronger (by trading Hossa for him).

Exactly my point. Not everyone could afford Pronger. But here again, you assume that an equal amount of salary would be traded back. That would assume that other teams were going to offer star players with equivalent contracts. That was not the case. There were absolutely no credible reports of any star player offered in exchange for Pronger.




The market value for a player like Pronger was not determined until the free agency period began... which was after he was traded.

Who decided to trade him at that time? In any case, everyone knew salaries would go way up as the contracts from the previous offseason were signed under a far more pessimistic environment as far as league revenues were concerned.

There were free agents available, but they either chose to play elsewhere or they were not worth spending $4 million+ on.

Again, circumstances are always against Lowe. It's always one thing or another isn't it? CBA, Pronger, rising cap, old building--the excuses always come before the accountability.

Lowe's plan was to try and replicate his previous year's moves and acquire some good defencemen before the trade deadline. He probably felt he could get someone as good as or better than what was available in the preseason. Obviously that didn't turn out, as this season showed that no team was willing to trade good defencemen.

You once again assume that Lowe wasn't interested in Getzlaf. I'm sure he would have asked about all of Anaheim's young players. Burke has adamantly refused to trade him for the past two season. And again, you base your arguments on hindsight. I think most everyone would have envisioned Lupul scoring more than Getzlaf this year.

Finally, what's your fascination with Mark Eaton? If you seriously think he would have helped this team succeed, then I have to question your judgement. A guy who's turning 30 and has only played 341 NHL games to date? The Eaton who has no physical side to his game at all and has a career high 13 points? What results are you talking about? He'd be a decent 4-6 guy, but that's not what the team needed.

He's exactly what the team needed. Markov as another option. Those two guys played the toughest minutes on Nashville last year, and they had positive results. Greene and Smid were way too young and inexperinced to be handed so much responsibility.Every one claims our problem was that we had no number 1 d-men, but Carolina won the Stanley Cup with no such d-man! They had six solid vets, and that's what you need.

 

[The Rage]

To start the season we had Staios, Smith, Tjarqvist, Bergeron, plus we had Greene (who everyone here seems to have loved and wanted developed), Smid (who did honesty play damn good for us in the beginning of the season and of course everyone here loved him) and Hejda (who has played pretty decent). Without hindsight WHY would Lowe bring in Eaton at the beginning of the season???

Are you kidding me? Go back the the threads on defence we had before the season started. Most people knew the defence would be pretty bad.

 

[The Rage]

The move wouldn't have paid off. Far too many forwards either underperformed or were hurt (or both) this year.

And I think the argument that the forward group was the bigger cause of the problem than the defence this year is a pretty valid one.

Between Horcoff getting off to a horrible start, Stoll and Torres having very inconsistant seasons, Moreau missing most of the year, Lupul being a huge disappointment, and Marty Reasoner having a poor season... those are a lot of things to go wrong for your team.

Yes, the troubles on the blueline also hurt... but this team was a lot more than one veteran blueliner away from making any sort of a difference this year.

Everyone knew the defence would be bad. Signing Eaton would have been smart. Yeah, maybe in the end it wouldn't have made a difference considering the injuries, but that doesn't mean our team wasn't understocked to begin the season. Heck, if we had brought back Dvorak as well then maybe our fowards would have been much better at ES. Our forwards being bad doesn't men our defence couldn't have used an Eaton.

 

[Vagabond]

I feel both Smid and Greene are already as good if not better than Eaton as is. If not, its not far off to even want to make that trade. I'm happy to have Greene and Smid having a full year under their belts for development at an NHL level.

 

[dawgbone]

Everyone knew the defence would be bad. Signing Eaton would have been smart. Yeah, maybe in the end it wouldn't have made a difference considering the injuries, but that doesn't mean our team wasn't understocked to begin the season. Heck, if we had brought back Dvorak as well then maybe our fowards would have been much better at ES. Our forwards being bad doesn't men our defence couldn't have used an Eaton.

I don't disagree that bringing in an Eaton would have improved our defence. But when you say paid off, I consider that to mean that the team would be in 8th or higher, as opposed to trying to lose as many games as possible to get a great draft pick.

 

[Jesus]

Our you kidding me? Go back the the threads on defence we had before the season started. Most people knew the defence would be pretty bad.

Of course people knew it would be bad but people only wanted a No.1 or No.2 defensemen and not more No.4-6 (which we have enough of) which Eaton surely is.

 

[momentai]

To start the season we had Staios, Smith, Tjarqvist, Bergeron, plus we had Greene (who everyone here seems to have loved and wanted developed), Smid (who did honesty play damn good for us in the beginning of the season and of course everyone here loved him) and Hejda (who has played pretty decent). Without hindsight WHY would Lowe bring in Eaton at the beginning of the season???

Nobody was all that confident about our defense going into this season. From the general sports fan in Edmonton to the posters on HF and the blogs, everyone felt defense was a concern and rightfully so.

Smid/Hejda/Greene were all unproven players at the NHL level (Greene only had a handful of NHL experience) and we all knew Bergeron was going to get 3rd pairing icetime here.

There's no hindsight here. Eaton would have been a wonderfully cheap addition to an Oiler club that was gambling on the defensive end. Eaton surprised me too when he was brought up for the first time but he played some heavy minutes in Nashville the year before and didn't do all that badly at them. He's a guy that I thought flew under the radar similar to what Lowe did with Dvorak this past offseason. I know that I'd take Dvorak over more than a couple players on our current roster.

 

[hemmingway]

At the end of the day the payroll was the lowest in the division. We will finish last in the division. There is a direct causal effect.

More money == better teams? Quick, someone call NYR - the nineties are calling.

Some players may have turned down our offers, but there were many reasonable short term deals we could have made (Markov, Eaton) that would have still kept our payroll below Calgary's but would have helped us a lot.

Eaton would have won Edmonton 10 more games?

I'll say this again and again. I don't know who was available. I listed some possibilities; players who had less trade value than Pronger. However, if Smid and Lupul was the best offer possible, then every other GM in the league is an idiot. The more likely explanation is that Lowe messed up.

No - the most likely explanation is that Lowe took the best offer with players that were going to come to Edmonton.

Personally - I'd rather have had Boumeester, Horton, and a first, but as the rumor goes - JayBo didn't want to play in Edmonton.

He's exactly what the team needed. Markov as another option. Those two guys played the toughest minutes on Nashville last year, and they had positive results. Greene and Smid were way too young and inexperinced to be handed so much responsibility.Every one claims our problem was that we had no number 1 d-men, but Carolina won the Stanley Cup with no such d-man! They had six solid vets, and that's what you need.

Edmonton could have overpaid a couple of veterans - hell - maybe even made the playoffs.

What does that get you?

A playoff gate? Good for the EIG. Funny, that's exactly what Jeremy Jacobs used to do. And yet they didn't.

So here's the crux of it.

Star players do not want to play in Edmonton. Given the option of playing here, or playing to the south or east, a player will likely take the south or east option.

The only option Edmonton has (and will likely ever have) is by developing their own talent. Drafting, teaching, and praying that they'll develop an impact player.

Forget about blaming someone. You can talk till you're blue in the face about how cheap you perceive the EIG to be, and that Lowe is intentionally taking bad players back in trade. The facts don't seem to support it - but whatever.

Simple truth is this - Edmonton is not going to attract star free agents. With the weather, the travel, and the obsessive fans, it never will.

The options are as follows.

1) Continue down the path of mediocrity - slipping into the playoffs, getting that profitable gate, and continuing to draft average players, but never having the talent to be a contender.

2) Develop talent from within.

What really frustrates me is that, on one hand, you slam the EIG for being cheap, and on the other hand, you slam Lowe for not signing players that wouldn't make the Oilers a contender, but would get the EIG another playoff gate.

Why is that?

 

[The Rage]

More money == better teams? Quick, someone call NYR - the nineties are calling.

Adding an Eaton or Markov would only help. Of course spending money in an asinine manner would not help.

No - the most likely explanation is that Lowe took the best offer with players that were going to come to Edmonton.

I think Lowe didn't want to increase salary in the Pronger trade. Big mistake. Again, if you were a GM, would you not offer more than Lupul and Smid for Pronger?

Star players do not want to play in Edmonton. Given the option of playing here, or playing to the south or east, a player will likely take the south or east option.

The only option Edmonton has (and will likely ever have) is by developing their own talent. Drafting, teaching, and praying that they'll develop an impact player.

Develop their own talent? Like Smyth?

Forget about blaming someone. You can talk till you're blue in the face about how cheap you perceive the EIG to be, and that Lowe is intentionally taking bad players back in trade. The facts don't seem to support it - but whatever.

The facts? Please. The facts are in the league standings. No spin necessary, just look at the standings.

Simple truth is this - Edmonton is not going to attract star free agents. With the weather, the travel, and the obsessive fans, it never will.

Obsessive fans? Like the ones who bash Smyth as greedy in defence of Lowe?

What really frustrates me is that, on one hand, you slam the EIG for being cheap, and on the other hand, you slam Lowe for not signing players that wouldn't make the Oilers a contender, but would get the EIG another playoff gate.

Why is that?

If you couldn't trade Pronger for Hossa or Luongo (who are players who can make teams into contenders) then at least sign a guy like Eaton to a short term deal and try to get that big fish later. The team just isn't good enough this season, and hasn't been good enough for 15 years. 15 years of developing, and nothing to show for it. Can you blame me for being cyncial when you advoate the same route that we've been on for so long?

 

[ChrisB]

We should have resigned Dvorak and had him play defense. He wasn't going to score any goals anyhow.

 

[hemmingway]

Adding an Eaton or Markov would only help. Of course spending money in an asinine manner would not help.

Help do what? Eighth to tenth place in the west again?

I think Lowe didn't want to increase salary in the Pronger trade. Big mistake.

You think. Simple truth of it is, you don't know what was offered. Given that Pronger screwed him (and the Oilers) by going to the media, I doubt many GM's were lining up to help Edmonton.

Develop their own talent? Like Smyth?

Exactly.

Develop a first line player - and trade him when he refuses to stay in Edmonton.

Don't let the tears get to you.

He refused to stay in Edmonton for 27 million over 5. If he had signed that contract - posters here would be calling for Lowes head for continuing to overpay. Brewer, Horcoff, Pisani, Roloson, Moreau, Smyth. Hmmmn, wonder why the EIG lets him continue to overpay players...

Obsessive fans? Like the ones who bash Smyth as greedy in defence of Lowe?

If Smyth wanted to play here - he would have signed.

The offer was 27 over 5. Argue that it is anything other than an overpayment.

Yet he didn't.

If you couldn't trade Pronger for Hossa or Luongo (who are players who can make teams into contenders) then at least sign a guy like Eaton to a short term deal and try to get that big fish later. The team just isn't good enough this season, and hasn't been good enough for 15 years. 15 years of developing, and nothing to show for it. Can you blame me for being cyncial when you advoate the same route that we've been on for so long?

After 10 years of fighting for the last playoff spot - even with Pronger, this team wasn't very good.

Lucky, yes. Good, no.

This year, the Oilers are bad, but by no means as bad as many here seem to believe. Edmonton needs four impact players to be effective. As I've said before - I think that they believe that they have two. They've obviously been improving their drafting and talent assessment - looking at the play of some of the rookies this year has been encouraging.

If you think this year will be bad - I can't wait till you see next year. This many rookies having their sophomore slumps at once is going to be interesting.

 

[Soundwave]

I think honestly our front office was not prepared for how quick the market moved last summer.

By the time we traded Pronger, something that Lowe knew he had to do for months, Luongo and Tanguay were already gone (which IMO were the two best trades last summer ... highway robbery by Vancouver and Calgary). I think Minnesota had also already pulled the trigger on Demitra.

We were still stuck thinking about the Stanley Cup finals, I think Lowe was maybe still even hoping Pronger might change his mind with a vacation (lol).

We got stuck a step slow ... Calgary, Vancouver, and Minnesota all came out and improved their rosters dramatically like by draft day. We got caught watching. Our division became dramatically stronger in basically the span of 24 hours. The market had shrunk by the time we had to move Pronger ... a lot of teams had already made big moves or used up their cap space by signing UFAs.

This summer, we will be a lot more aggressive out of the gate, I think, in part because Lowe has a few months now to sit and really think about how big of a failure this season was.

 

[The Rage]

Help do what? Eighth to tenth place in the west again?



You think. Simple truth of it is, you don't know what was offered. Given that Pronger screwed him (and the Oilers) by going to the media, I doubt many GM's were lining up to help Edmonton.



Exactly.

Develop a first line player - and trade him when he refuses to stay in Edmonton.

Don't let the tears get to you.

If you keep trading players away, you will never build a contender.

He refused to stay in Edmonton for 27 million over 5. If he had signed that contract - posters here would be calling for Lowes head for continuing to overpay. Brewer, Horcoff, Pisani, Roloson, Moreau, Smyth. Hmmmn, wonder why the EIG lets him continue to overpay players...

I don't care what other posters would say. Lowe decided to overpay more replaceable players and refused to overpay Smyth. Lowe compared himself to Billy Beane, but Beane has build a philosophy of trading away or losing mid-level guys before the stars. One guy is a successful GM, the other isn't.

If Smyth wanted to play here - he would have signed.

The offer was 27 over 5. Argue that it is anything other than an overpayment.

Yet he didn't.



After 10 years of fighting for the last playoff spot - even with Pronger, this team wasn't very good.

Lucky, yes. Good, no.

Who is responsible for that? Lowe has had enough time to build a team.

This year, the Oilers are bad, but by no means as bad as many here seem to believe. Edmonton needs four impact players to be effective. As I've said before - I think that they believe that they have two. They've obviously been improving their drafting and talent assessment - looking at the play of some of the rookies this year has been encouraging.

If you think this year will be bad - I can't wait till you see next year. This many rookies having their sophomore slumps at once is going to be interesting.

We'll see what happens next year. I predict Lowe is fired withn two years. Rebuilding is fine, but it's not palatable when the guy doing the rebuilding has supposedly been building for years now.

 

[The Rage]

Hemmingway, have you listened to some of Lowe's interviews since the trade? He certainly doesn't seem to be advocating a rebuild. It's more likely that his plan is to target somebody via a trade. He has said the Oilers could have an 8 million dollar guy very soon.

 

[Soundwave]

I find it hard to believe that we'll have an $8 million dollar player when our payroll seemingly is going to stay fixed at $40 million.

Are we trading for Chara? Because there's no D-Man out there worth $8 million this summer. So that means we're spending $8 million on a forward but keeping the same defense? How does that really help anything.

I'm skeptical.

 

[matmik*]

This long string is instructive.
The EIG should read it carefully, and quickly come to the conclusion that Lowe should be fired asap.
Ultimately, results are all that matter. Results today mean infinitely more than "futures".
Lowe is personally accountable for a circumstance where the last 6 weeks of this season have been rendered utterly pointless. An inadequate , embarassing roster plays out the string, emontionless and virtually talentless.
This did not have to happen. Three opportunities existed to redeem the season - hanging tough with Pronger, dealing with Smyth early and trading in late November his garbage for at least competence ( Lupul/Horcoff/Staois/Smyth/Smid/ Roloson for the kinds of players that moved over the last month ie Stuart).
What Oiler fans should have to endure is not only the loss of this season but some endless reliance on "futures/prospects/potential". None of that matters in the cap world. What matters is moving the assets that took the team to within one game of the Stanley Cup with resolve and intuition, not panic.
It would be major accomplish if this board could coalesce around the immeditate firing of Lowe.

 

[hemmingway]

I think honestly our front office was not prepared for how quick the market moved last summer.

By the time we traded Pronger, something that Lowe knew he had to do for months, Luongo and Tanguay were already gone (which IMO were the two best trades last summer ... highway robbery by Vancouver and Calgary). I think Minnesota had also already pulled the trigger on Demitra.

We were still stuck thinking about the Stanley Cup finals, I think Lowe was maybe still even hoping Pronger might change his mind with a vacation (lol).

Tanguay wouldn't have helped the Oilers this year. Luongo might have, although to say he would have won ten more games than Roloson is debatable.

Put simply, the Flames were a good team that couldn't score before Tanguay - he instantly makes them better.

Vancouver was a good team without a goalie for years - Luongo instantly made them better.

Edmonton needed a world class defenseman.

Unfortunately, the only ones on the market were Chara, who turned down an Edmonton offer, and Pronger.

We got stuck a step slow ... Calgary, Vancouver, and Minnesota all came out and improved their rosters dramatically like by draft day. We got caught watching. Our division became dramatically stronger in basically the span of 24 hours. The market had shrunk by the time we had to move Pronger ... a lot of teams had already made big moves or used up their cap space by signing UFAs.

This summer, we will be a lot more aggressive out of the gate, I think, in part because Lowe has a few months now to sit and really think about how big of a failure this season was.

Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final was June 20th. The Pronger rumor started less than a week later (Jun 25-26th), likely due to the fact that Pronger's agent realized that teams were consuming their cap room, and that in the financial game of musical chairs that the cap has created, Pronger didn't want to be left with Edmonton.

Make no mistake about it - you want to blame Lowe and his team - blame it on the fact that they never saw Pronger (or other Oilers) screwing them this way.

 

[Injektilo]

Develop a first line player - and trade him when he refuses to stay in Edmonton.

Don't let the tears get to you.

Yeah, the problem there is that they traded away a player who they drafted and developed and was still a high impact player, and now they have to do exactly what you said doesn't happen, attract a big name UFA. That, or overpay in a trade for another big star.

Smyth was the best Oilers draft pick of the 90's, and now he's gone.

 

[hemmingway]

Hemmingway, have you listened to some of Lowe's interviews since the trade? He certainly doesn't seem to be advocating a rebuild. It's more likely that his plan is to target somebody via a trade. He has said the Oilers could have an 8 million dollar guy very soon.

I'll believe it when I see it.

They talk about not rebuilding, and yet we see 10 rookies in the lineup. Looks like a rebuild to me.

Wanting an 8 million dollar impact player is different than being able to acquire one.

Edmonton has the trading chips (picks, prospects, cap friendly young talent), is willing to pay the cash to an elite player (or a great player, in the case of Smyth), but I don't see many of them being moved. Best case scenario is a player like Vincent L., but I won't believe it till I see it.

 

[Soundwave]

Tanguay wouldn't have helped the Oilers this year. Luongo might have, although to say he would have won ten more games than Roloson is debatable.

Put simply, the Flames were a good team that couldn't score before Tanguay - he instantly makes them better.

Vancouver was a good team without a goalie for years - Luongo instantly made them better.

Edmonton needed a world class defenseman.

Unfortunately, the only ones on the market were Chara, who turned down an Edmonton offer, and Pronger.



Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final was June 20th. The Pronger rumor started less than a week later (Jun 25-26th), likely due to the fact that Pronger's agent realized that teams were consuming their cap room, and that in the financial game of musical chairs that the cap has created, Pronger didn't want to be left with Edmonton.

Make no mistake about it - you want to blame Lowe and his team - blame it on the fact that they never saw Pronger (or other Oilers) screwing them this way.

The thing that I don't buy about this line of reasoning is it's a cop out excuse.

Lowe knew in Feburary if not earlier that Pronger could not stay in Edmonton. His wife wanted out, and he had to be moved, that was non-negotiable. You can't tell someone to sacrifice their marriage for the organization.

Yet we sat on our hands doing nothing while every other team already made their big moves. Hey ... I'll take Roberto Luongo or Alex Tanguay on our roster right now no questions asked. If we were going to deal Pronger we needed to do it ASAP when players like Luongo were still available to be had, or we needed to hold out until the season. Instead we kinda just got stuck in the middle, missed out on the real cream of the crop talent that was out there, and then ended up dealing Pronger about a week later.

 

[hemmingway]

If you keep trading players away, you will never build a contender.

Hmm - so far this season - he's traded MAB, Smyth, and Pronger.

Pronger demanded out.

MAB played his way out.

Smyth could have stayed, if he wanted to. He wanted the money.

Sounds like the problem is with the players, not the GM.

I don't care what other posters would say. Lowe decided to overpay more replaceable players and refused to overpay Smyth. Lowe compared himself to Billy Beane, but Beane has build a philosophy of trading away or losing mid-level guys before the stars. One guy is a successful GM, the other isn't.

Sorry - are you telling me that Smyth is worth more than 27 over 5 in a capped environment?

The only "stars" Lowe has traded away have been Weight, Pronger, and Smyth.

- Weight demanded a trade.
- Pronger demanded a trade.
- Smyth refused to sign a 27m5yr deal before he would be a UFA, where Edmonton would lose him with nothing in return.

We'll see what happens next year. I predict Lowe is fired withn two years. Rebuilding is fine, but it's not palatable when the guy doing the rebuilding has supposedly been building for years now.

The members of the EIG that I know are in this for the long haul. The only goal is winning a cup - and Lowe got them to within a game of it last year. They will continue to sacrifice short term gains (single playoff gates) for building a real contender.

 

[hemmingway]

The thing that I don't buy about this line of reasoning is it's a cop out excuse.

Lowe knew in Feburary if not earlier that Pronger could not stay in Edmonton. His wife wanted out, and he had to be moved, that was non-negotiable. You can't tell someone to sacrifice their marriage for the organization.

Yet we sat on our hands doing nothing while every other team already made their big moves. Hey ... I'll take Roberto Luongo or Alex Tanguay on our roster right now no questions asked. If we were going to deal Pronger we needed to do it ASAP when players like Luongo were still available to be had, or we needed to hold out until the season. Instead we kinda just got stuck in the middle, missed out on the real cream of the crop talent that was out there, and then ended up dealing Pronger about a week later.

The simple truth is - trading Pronger for anyone (and I mean anyone) would immediately make the Oilers a worse hockey team.

And this was a team that wasn't great last year.

Anyone can say that they're not happy with the return on the trade, and even before three of the players have been picked, they're likely right, it wasn't enough.

The best case scenario had Edmonton trading Pronger for young help up front and on defense, and picking up a world class defenseman.
- Redden resigned.
- Chara turned down the Oilers offer.
- no world class defenseman became available during the season.

So where does that leave Edmonton? Out of the playoffs.

 

[Soundwave]

If we had traded for Luongo and signed say Filip Kuba instead of Petr Sykora, I'd say we're in the playoffs and have a franchise All-Star player for many years to come to boot.

Folding up your tent just because you weren't going to get a Pronger level d-man back is kind of a piss poor attitude. No one feels sorry for the Oilers, we don't have the luxury of feeling sorry for ourselves.

What should have happened is EVERY GM should have known that Pronger was available *before* any other trades were made, so we could have at least made offers/pitches for some of the players that went, like a Luongo, Havlat, or even Tanguay. Chalk it up as a learning experience for our front office I guess, but a costly one that could have repurcussions on the team for the next 5-10 years.

Kevin needed to be on the ball there, as a GM you can't get caught up in the emotion of what happened in the Cup Finals, we needed someone to already be thinking about the 06-07 season even while the Finals were going on. He knew he had to move Pronger, but did nothing, then we settled on a package from Anaheim once the majority of teams had already spent a big chunk of their UFA money or made their big moves.

Am I dissapointed in players wanting out last summer? Sure. But I'm also dissapointed that management basically let these players walk all over the organization and we ended up making deals where our hands were tied. If you knew Pronger had to be traded in the summer, there should have been a strategy in place *immediately* to move him for the best player available on the trade market. How is it that Calgary and Vancouver landed better players than us with significantly less assets?