Message sent to Season Ticket Holders from Kevin Lowe

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Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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We're willing to spend money on the "right players" but who is even available now?

There's no one this summer even remotely close to a Luongo IMO.

If you wanna spend $8 million on Briere ... great.
 

hemmingway

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Aug 6, 2006
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It's been an all too frequent trend here in Edmonton, that Oilers' management is always perceived to the victim of some greedy act by a selfish player somewhere. I don't know where that impression comes from, whether it is the soft media, the management itself for creating the impression that Edmonton is small market or the EIG. It just seems like it happens all the time with "star" players, and you really do have to wonder why it is the case.

That is a wonderful post.

Lets see:

"all too frequent trend" - yet, no examples...

"Oilers' management is always perceived" - by whom, you ask?

"victim of some greedy act by a selfish player" - vague, but not too vague.

"soft media" - sorry, the what?

"creating the impression that Edmonton is small market" - to whom is this impression being created?

"just seems like it happens all the time with "star" players" - yep, it always does, with that infamous group of "star" players.

Wonderfully vague post, about perceptions, nameless players, and groups. Gotta have a group in there.

Are you a politician? Because for certain, you are no statesman.
 

Tricolore#20

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That is a wonderful post.

Lets see:

"all too frequent trend" - yet, no examples...

"Oilers' management is always perceived" - by whom, you ask?

"victim of some greedy act by a selfish player" - vague, but not too vague.

"soft media" - sorry, the what?

"creating the impression that Edmonton is small market" - to whom is this impression being created?

"just seems like it happens all the time with "star" players" - yep, it always does, with that infamous group of "star" players.

Wonderfully vague post, about perceptions, nameless players, and groups. Gotta have a group in there.

Are you a politician? Because for certain, you are no statesman.
:yo: Thanks a lot for pointing it out. I actually love the political process, so I'm sure why you can see that aspect in my post :)

I suppose I could start in the old CBA era, however that would be ultimately unfair because it was a different time, and the Oilers were broke back then. I remember when Cujo left, there were cries from fans suggesting that Joseph was a greedy player. Then when Weight left, the impression from a lot of fans was that it was Weight who was greedy, when all honesty given the market value at the time (ie: Roenick), Weight should have been paid more money. Then the whole Comrie situation, many people seem to imply that Comrie is a jerk and a selfish guy for seeking all those bonuses. And then Pronger somehow tied up Lowe's hands and screwed him over, when in fact Lowe knew about the situation 6 months earlier, and didn't have a backup plan. And just recently, there have been several people who have claimed that in fact it is Smyth who is the greedy party. The evidence certain isn't concrete, but the perception is there that the Oilers are always the ones who are perpetually screwed over.

Matheson's response to the letter today proves that the perception that the Oilers are poor still exists. He claims the Oilers are going to be a "have not" when the cap figure goes up, when in fact the Oilers are 8th in revenue and in the upper tier of ticket-prices and attendance. If Edmonton's leading hockey journalist spews this stuff, I can't imagine there is anybody else in the media who would say otherwise.
 

The Rage

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What I don't get is that the same people who are criticizing him now were the same group (in large part) that were criticizing him after spending a 1st on Roloson.... let the record show that his decision not only worked out, it set the base standard for UFA rentals this year. There is no way Philli or EDM get what they got for their rental players if Lowe's move didn't look so genius last year.

I was a fan of the Roloson trade. I don't thnk there is a conection between what Lowe did and what happened this year. The draft is weak, and draft picks themselves have gone down in value with the UFA age lowering.
 

hemmingway

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Aug 6, 2006
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:yo: Thanks a lot for pointing it out. I actually love the political process, so I'm sure why you can see that aspect in my post :)

I suppose I could start in the old CBA era, however that would be unfair, but nonetheless I'll say it. I remember when Cujo left, there were cries from fans suggesting that Joseph was a greedy player.

Cujo left for more money. A great deal more money, as I recall (TO, 6m) Edmonton got nothing for him, as they let him leave as a UFA. He left on (relatively) good terms with the organization - which is good, as he came close to being traded to Edmonton at the trade deadline last season.

Then when Weight left, the impression from a lot of fans was that it was Weight who was greedy, when all honesty given the market value at the time (ie: Roenick), Weight should have been paid more money.

Edmonton couldn't afford to pay Weight at that point and time. Given the amount of money the Blues paid him, his subsequent injuries and performance, Edmonton appears to have dodged a bullet on that one.

Edmonton traded him to a team of his choice.

Then the whole Comrie situation, many people seem to imply that Comrie is a jerk and a selfish guy for seeking all those bonuses.

The Comrie situation may have had nothing to do with bonuses (wink-wink-nudge-nudge) Comrie appears to have been pissed at how they threw him under the bus, however. They refused to trade him to the team of his choice.

Edmonton screwed Comrie over - no question about it.

And then Pronger somehow tied up Lowe's hands and screwed him over, when in fact Lowe knew about the situation 6 months earlier, and didn't have a backup plan.

Pronger signed a five year deal, and the needed to get out of the city. Rumors swirl to this day about that deal (another wink-wink-nudge-nudge), but they traded him to a team that allowed him to be happy with his family.

And just recently, there have been several people who have claimed that in fact it is Smyth who is the greedy party. The evidence certain isn't concrete, but the perception is there that the Oilers are always the ones who are perpetually screwed over.

Smyth simply didn't sign the deal in front of him. As I said in a different post - in this deal, everyone wins:
- Isles get a wonderful player for a playoff run.
- Edmonton gets three young players.
- Smyth gets to try free agency.

I don't see anyone getting screwed over.

Matheson's response to the letter today proves that the perception that the Oilers are poor still exists. He claims the Oilers are going to be a "have not" when the cap figure goes up, when in fact the Oilers are 8th in revenue and in the upper tier of ticket-prices and attendance. If Edmonton's leading hockey journalist spews this stuff, I can't imagine there is anybody else in the media who would say otherwise.

Matheson is a journalist - and when we make media by asking the journalists what they think, then we are really in for it.

See, it's the perception of being cheap that frustrates me.

Looking at the past two years, they've thrown money at Roloson, Horcoff, Pisani, Sykora, Moreau, Hemsky, and Staios. All overpayments.

After a year in which Edmonton picked up Pronger (31.25m) Peca (4m) and a number of rentals in Spacek, Samsonov, and Tarnstrom.

Add to that the contract offers to Chara, Spacek, Samsonov, and Smyth, and this is not a team that's afraid to throw money around. Hell, Edmonton's been within 2 million in salary with some of the best teams in the league.

Which 2 million dollar player is going to put Edmonton over the top?
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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You're not going to get a veteran, solid starting goalie for less than $3 million.

And after last year, I think we learned our lesson as to what happens when you try and go for cheap on your goaltending (see Philedelphia as well).
 

alanschu

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Aug 12, 2005
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Edmonton, Alberta
Which is why he isn't paid as much. A full 2 million dollars less than what Smyth was looking for. Despite being more integral to the success of the team during last season's playoffs.
 

gr8haluschak

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Jul 25, 2004
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When someone says Ryan Smyth is "not a good player at all", you have to question what they've been watching for 12 years while the hockey game's on.

Umm I watch a hell of a lot more than you do obviously, watch him paly and tell me what I said that was so wrong NOTHING, he i snot a good overall hockey player, if he was not the best infront of the net he would not be in the NHL. How many goals does he score that are not tips or garbage goals ? but yeah that is right i fyou subtract the 90% of typical smyth goals you get what 3-5 real goals, but that is the sign of a great hockey player.
 

Gusher

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Smyth has scored 75 goals post cap. His scoring rate post cap is .48.

What more do you want for Hemsky? Triple H? Heatley and Hossa? :D

Care to hazard a guess how many "goal scorers" in the league have fared better than Smyth post cap?

I hope you aren't trying to compare Smyth to Hemsky? Hemsky is going to be an all-star in this League. He almost is already and he's only 23-years-old. He led the team in Points last season as a 22-year-old. Most of Smyth's goals are garbage goals and 3 feet in front of the net. Smyth isn't the elite player a lot of people on this board and in this city tend to think. And don't try to come back and say "Hemsky only has 9 goals". I'm well aware of that but Hemsky IS not a goal-scorer he's a great play-maker. He's the type of player you build a winning team around.

Smyth has 68 goals POST lock-out so I'm not sure where you came up with 75. Or are you adding in his 7 Playoff goals from last season to raise his numbers a bit? ;)

Since you mentioned it, let's see how some players are doing after the lock-out, AND this does NOT include Playoffs...

Ovechkin 90
Heatley 91
Kovalchuk 87
Gagne 83
Cheechoo 79
Selanne 79
Hossa 78
Jagr 78
Lecavalier 78
Zetterberg 72
St.Louis 70
Staal 71
Shanahan 68
Jokinen 68
Smyth 68
Crosby 66 - great numbers as an 18 and 19 year old!
Iginla 66
Alfredsson 66
Drury 63
Marleau 63
Williams 62
Jason Blake 61
Gaborik 61 in JUST 98 games. I wish we could have drafted him back in 2000
Rolston 60
Vanek 59
Cole 55
Holmstrom 55...this proves that players like Smyth and Holmstrom benefit from lots of garbage goals and goals from 2 feet in front of the net. I'm not saying it's an easy place to play but it doesn't take elite skills to do the job.

By those numbers above Smyth fits in with the "good" category in this League, not the greats.

I'm not saying Smyth is a terrible player either. I'm just saying he's not an elite player or even a great player in the NHL. He was great for the Oilers but he's not among the greats in the NHL. And he's definitely not worth the kind of money he wants. Will someone give it to him? Probably. Will they regret it 3 or 4 years from now? Very likely.
 

momentai

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Umm I watch a hell of a lot more than you do obviously, watch him paly and tell me what I said that was so wrong NOTHING, he i snot a good overall hockey player, if he was not the best infront of the net he would not be in the NHL. How many goals does he score that are not tips or garbage goals ? but yeah that is right i fyou subtract the 90% of typical smyth goals you get what 3-5 real goals, but that is the sign of a great hockey player.

I think it's hard to find your opinion quantifiable by any measure.

Ryan Smyth doesn't play the flashy game but he is effective at what he does at ES and on the pp. Results matter and Smyth puts those up in spades...

But it's a fact of life that it's hard to get through the biases if you're unwilling to listen.
 

alanschu

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Aug 12, 2005
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Edmonton, Alberta
Umm I watch a hell of a lot more than you do obviously, watch him paly and tell me what I said that was so wrong NOTHING, he i snot a good overall hockey player, if he was not the best infront of the net he would not be in the NHL. How many goals does he score that are not tips or garbage goals ? but yeah that is right i fyou subtract the 90% of typical smyth goals you get what 3-5 real goals, but that is the sign of a great hockey player.

If scoring those "garbage" goals is so easy, how come there aren't more people that score those types of goals more consistently?
 

Gusher

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Jan 1, 2007
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Hemmingway, have you listened to some of Lowe's interviews since the trade? He certainly doesn't seem to be advocating a rebuild. It's more likely that his plan is to target somebody via a trade. He has said the Oilers could have an 8 million dollar guy very soon.

If Lowe is true to his word I hope he lands a guy like Richards or Lecavalier. They could really help this club get back to the dance.
 

Gusher

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Jan 1, 2007
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I find it hard to believe that we'll have an $8 million dollar player when our payroll seemingly is going to stay fixed at $40 million.

Are we trading for Chara? Because there's no D-Man out there worth $8 million this summer. So that means we're spending $8 million on a forward but keeping the same defense? How does that really help anything.

I'm skeptical.

But what if Lowe can do some magic and trade for a guy like Richards or Lecavalier. Then spend 4 or 5 on a guy like Souray or Rafalski or someone like that? Either of those guys would help our poor defence.
 

momentai

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But what if Lowe can do some magic and trade for a guy like Richards or Lecavalier. Then spend 4 or 5 on a guy like Souray or Rafalski or someone like that? Either of those guys would help our poor defence.

No offense but does anyone really want to spend 5 million on a guy like Souray who'll end as basically a pp specialist?
 

Seachd

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Mar 16, 2002
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Umm I watch a hell of a lot more than you do obviously, watch him paly and tell me what I said that was so wrong NOTHING, he i snot a good overall hockey player, if he was not the best infront of the net he would not be in the NHL. How many goals does he score that are not tips or garbage goals ? but yeah that is right i fyou subtract the 90% of typical smyth goals you get what 3-5 real goals, but that is the sign of a great hockey player.
I didn't realize Ryan Smyth goals were worth less than Ilya Kovalchuk goals.
 

Gusher

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Jan 1, 2007
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No offense but does anyone really want to spend 5 million on a guy like Souray who'll end as basically a pp specialist?

I was meaning 4 for Souray and 5 for Rafalski. But still, it is a bit of an over-payment perhaps but the Oilers desperately need a PP-QB and Souray would be fine in that department and would be good at blocking shots and he's strong as an ox.
 

gr8haluschak

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Jul 25, 2004
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If scoring those "garbage" goals is so easy, how come there aren't more people that score those types of goals more consistently?

if you actually read he is the best at what he does that is it, NO ONE HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT I SAID

Is he a good skater ?
Is he good at accepting passes ?
Is he good at driving to the net with the puck ?
Is he really that good at shooting and overall passing ?

If he is not good at any of those then how good of a hockey player is he ?

I love how you all sit there rip me for saying that he is not a good hockey player and the one argument is he scores garbage goals, well since when does being the best ONE THING while being average to bad at so many other skills makes you a great hockey player? Added to that if he was that good at everything else do you not think that he woul dbe worth the 6 mill he asked for and Lowe would have had no problem giving it to him.
 
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