You do realize that Smyth was playing 13:28 a night at ES, while being a + player and clocking in at 2.6 ESP/60?
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You do realize that Smyth was playing 13:28 a night at ES, while being a + player and clocking in at 2.6 ESP/60?
Gunner8811
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- Aug 29, 2005
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Is it safe to say that maybe Smyth made Hemmer and Horc. better players. They seem to slump when Smyth was injured and the Oilers did go 7 periods without scoring after Smyth left. 3 goals in the last 4 games and all by Pisani.
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Checked out
My advice is to back slowly away from the thread. Better to get out of the quicksand
Behind Enemy Lines
Registered User
Hey, I'm frustrated too. I live in frickin Calgary and get the gears every single day.
This team has said it would build through draft-development. I believe in the approach but of course that depends on drafting the right players. I've been somewhat lukewarm and critical of the Oil drafting. But...
We're closing off post-armaggedon year two. The team has been to a Cup Final and amazed its fans with a miracle run. Lowe traded for Pronger and Peca (who could have imagined that). Plenty to cheer about. This year sucks large but we'll see what this management group does with its asset base.
Could be worse. Make be Leafers haven't won since '67 and haven't had even a Cinderella Cup run to hang their hat on. They've lost their competitive advantage with outspending other teams.
We all have a choice. We can be fans or move on. It's a pastime, not life or death. How EIG chooses to spend its money is out of our control. Hockey decisions are beyond our control. I gave up baseball after its last labour strike in the 90's and when the Expos finally left town because they couldn't compete. I hate to think about losing my passion for the Oil but if I felt this team didn't put winning first, I'd move on.
This summer is huge for me. Management have made some very difficult decisions this past year and have made strong promises to move this team forward. I'm taking a wait and see approach. But I can tell you clearly, if I ever feel this team is not committed to winning the big prize, I have ample other options for my leisure time and discretionary dollar.
OYLer
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The live ice awaits, but only for those who can't wait to come alive and strive...
Horcoff is going to have to work on getting his shot away quicker and with more velocity. A heavier, harder shot and then going to the net doggedly to chew-up the garbage and spit it into that checkered doggy floss.
Hemsky's training wheels are off now. Ales had better graduate into the selfish mode and start taking shots first, going to the net for rebound second, and thinking pass as a last case - third option. Ugly goals matter more that pretty plays.
If these two forward are going to run into each other, let them both do it in front of the opposition's net and not at theirs or the bad guys' blueline, and create an odd man rush, the other way.
I like your avatar as much as your grasp of linemate interaction. Sometimes the whole is better than their separate parts but Smytty was the best part.
Horcoff is going to have to work on getting his shot away quicker and with more velocity. A heavier, harder shot and then going to the net doggedly to chew-up the garbage and spit it into that checkered doggy floss.
Hemsky's training wheels are off now. Ales had better graduate into the selfish mode and start taking shots first, going to the net for rebound second, and thinking pass as a last case - third option. Ugly goals matter more that pretty plays.
If these two forward are going to run into each other, let them both do it in front of the opposition's net and not at theirs or the bad guys' blueline, and create an odd man rush, the other way.
From TSN.CA, this was the flaw written for Ryan Smyth.
His style of play often leads to serious injuries. Doesn't have enough natural talent to become an elite winger.
Gusher
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- Jan 1, 2007
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Smyth makes Hemsky better? You must be kidding me.
Plus, Hemsky has been playing hurt all season long with a bad shoulder. That's why his numbers are down of late. Smyth does not make guys like Hemsky better. How? Smyth isn't a goal-scorer. A goal-scorer would make Hemsky better.
Gusher
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- Jan 1, 2007
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My advice is to back slowly away from the thread. Better to get out of the quicksand
Thanks for the advice but I'll do what I want thanks.
Towmater14
Registered User
I think that your avatar alone upsets people.smyth could actually hold on to the puck in the offensive zone and not just give it away constantly like hemsky
yeah with his one handed stickhandling right. I love how people here sit there and try to make Smyth out as this great player, fact is he is not a good player at all. His skating is average, accepting passes is terrible, stickhandling is not good, and with the puck he is terrible driving to the net. Added to that he makes those stupid drop passes atleast one per game and half of them no one is anywhere near them.
Replacement*
Checked out
Smyth has scored 75 goals post cap. His scoring rate post cap is .48.
What more do you want for Hemsky? Triple H? Heatley and Hossa?
Care to hazard a guess how many "goal scorers" in the league have fared better than Smyth post cap?
ok whatever, how many games do you watch because quite honestly I doubt many. Oh yeah I forgot that when someone passes you the puck and it bounces off your stick 6 inches infront that means you accepted the pass good. I also forgot that you drive to the net with the puck good when you do it one handed and you get the puck knocked off your stick. How many times do you see him deke defenders out ? or how many times do you see the puck roll off his stick - i mean that must be a sign of good stickhandling. Finally tell me honestly how good of a skater ydo you think he is because he is not fast and not agile.
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what's with you and Eaton?
The guy is an average defender who would bring nothing exceptional to the Oilers.
Would he really be noticeably better then Tjarnqvist or Hejda?
I'm speaking english, but apparantly you're still not understanding anything I'm saying. I can see you're angry, and perhaps that's why your arguments aren't making any sense.
Lowe put money on the table for Spacek. He decided to play elsewhere for the same amount. Spacek admitted in the papers his decision wasn't based on money. Lowe put $7 million down as an offer to Chara. This likewise was reported in the papers. Chara chose to play in Boston. Lowe went out and signed Sykora to add to the team's offence. He was the first-shot scorer everyone had been asking for in the past. Before that Lowe went out and secured Roloson and Pisani long-term. Both players performed excellently in the playoffs and both were well rewarded for it. He also made sure all our RFAs were signed and then to the surprise (and delight) of all, he signed Hemsky long term.
After writing all this, how can you possibly say he hasn't been willing to spend the money? Its pretty clear to many, but obviously not everyone, that the team is willing to spend the money on players they feel are worth it and will improve the team (Pronger, Peca, Roloson, Hemsky, etc...). That doesn't mean they'll go and blow millions to overpay for someone who isn't going to have an impact equal to his paycheck. Of course, you never know how well someone will perform for your team, but you can judge pretty well that some players weren't worth what teams like Toronto were willing to pay. So sorry, no $4 million for a McKee.
I don't see how the level of the player makes any difference in regards to the situation. Both players wanted out. Both had to be traded. The situation is very comparable.
Are these the best arguments you can come up with? Lowe knew Pronger had expressed unhappiness. He did not know he was going to demand a trade, let alone leak this to the media. That's why Pronger's move came as such a shock. At worst, Lowe probably felt that if Pronger did approach him with a trade demand, he'd have some time to deal with it and start working on a trade privately. Pronger's leak made that impossible. I don't know how you would expect to know about the trade demand when the first anyone heard of it, including Lowe, was in the papers.
Luongo had already been traded by the time Pronger's demand had even sunk in. It was an impossibility. Get over it already. Who was every other player available Rage? Please enlighten us. Fact is you have no idea. Neither do I. But we do know that the players being offered in exchange for Pronger which showed up in newspapers were not the star players you had listed.
Yet another brilliant argument. We got a young forward coming off a 28 goal season, a blue chip defensive prospect, a 1st round pick and another potential 1st rounder. Apparantly no other team was willing to offer as good a deal as that, so we can let your imagination come to a conclusion of how much worse it could have been. Almost every hockey analyst and member of this forum were expecting improvement this season from Lupul. No one expected he would play as poorly as he has. Arguments stemming from hindsight are useless.
Everything I posted was reported in the papers. The only thing I don't know was what all the different offers from other teams were. But I believe Lowe is an intelligent person who knows what he's doing, probably more so than anyone here. And I'm sure if better deals were available, he would have taken them. Its easy for some people to react to the situation by saying, "well, Lowe made a stupid decision" when they don't know the facts. I choose to give the professional GM the benefit of the doubt.
Why didn't teams offer more? Well, try re-reading my first post. Like I said before, most GMs probably felt they would do better going after one of the UFAs available without having to give up anyone in return. Given the chance to sign Jovanovski for $7 million or trade a combination of a star/young player/prospect and/or picks for a $6 million Pronger, it seems like the other teams decided it was best to hold on their players. Let's remember that after seeing Carolina and Buffalo in the playoffs, the mantra of many hockey people was "depth" going into last pre-season. In hindsight, I'm sure there are a few GMs who regret not trying to land Pronger. Toronto in particular, shelled out some huge dollars for McCabe, Kubina and Gill. Now, none of those players appear worth their contract.
Lastly, you assume that every team in the league was capable of taking on a $6 million contract. That clearly wasn't the case.
Exactly my point. Not everyone could afford Pronger. But here again, you assume that an equal amount of salary would be traded back. That would assume that other teams were going to offer star players with equivalent contracts. That was not the case. There were absolutely no credible reports of any star player offered in exchange for Pronger.
The market value for a player like Pronger was not determined until the free agency period began... which was after he was traded. There were free agents available, but they either chose to play elsewhere or they were not worth spending $4 million+ on. Lowe's plan was to try and replicate his previous year's moves and acquire some good defencemen before the trade deadline. He probably felt he could get someone as good as or better than what was available in the preseason. Obviously that didn't turn out, as this season showed that no team was willing to trade good defencemen.
You once again assume that Lowe wasn't interested in Getzlaf. I'm sure he would have asked about all of Anaheim's young players. Burke has adamantly refused to trade him for the past two season. And again, you base your arguments on hindsight. I think most everyone would have envisioned Lupul scoring more than Getzlaf this year.
Finally, what's your fascination with Mark Eaton? If you seriously think he would have helped this team succeed, then I have to question your judgement. A guy who's turning 30 and has only played 341 NHL games to date? The Eaton who has no physical side to his game at all and has a career high 13 points? What results are you talking about? He'd be a decent 4-6 guy, but that's not what the team needed.
True objectivity is impossible, specially when coming from a pro sports team fan. I can probably criticize the team for as much as I defend other aspects. I do however object to people trashing the organization based on fallacies.
You forget to mention that the club, and Lowe had singled out Comrie for a subpar effort in a series they stated they should have won. Not only did that publically aired statement steam Comrie but it deflated value if he later needed to be dealt. Lowe then much later introduced an unprecedented gambit of his own spurious making that Comrie would have to pay out of his contract if he wanted to be traded citing that he couldn't get fair value in trade.... Consider how this move shot across the NHLPA bow.
True, but it wouldn't be the first time a GM or coach has called out a player. Do I think this had a large effect? Probably not. I think most pro scouts would be able to judge themselves Comrie's efforts on the ice. As for upsetting the NHLPA... I'm all for it.
I don't doubt that Lowe didn't want to believe it. After all, his plans for the team all revolved around Pronger and him being with the Oilers for the next 4 seasons. Like I said before, I think that Lowe probably felt that even if Pronger did eventually say he wanted out, it would be in person... to him, and that he'd have some time to make inquiries to other teams and prepare to handle the fallout of his departure. Learning about it in the newspapers was probably the last thing he envisioned.
Could he have gotten on the phone right away with Florida? Perhaps, but I'm sure he had many other thoughts, many unpleasant, on his mind at the time. I actually do think that a trade for Luongo probably would have been one of the better options if we had to trade Pronger. However, the timing probably prevented it from taking place and like you said, who's to say they would have wanted Pronger over Bertuzzi?
I compare the situation, not the player involved. And I disagree. Let's say Pronger held out... and the team started losing like they did this year. All of a sudden Lowe is under increasing pressure to trade Pronger... and other GMs would have taken advantage of that. Likewise let's imagine that Pronger decides to return and play. That would have been a circus. How do you think the rest of the team would have reacted, playing with the guy who wants out? Pronger would have been under even greater pressure to disclose why he wanted to leave. How do you think the fans would have reacted, knowing that he wanted to be traded? I don't think it would be an exaggeration to think that he'd be booed every game he played at Rexall. It wouldn't have been a good situation, and it once again would have put great pressure on Lowe to do something fast.
Negotiating is all fine and dandy, but free agency was right around the corner and if Lowe didn't establish a deal before teams started signing defencemen, most of the teams inquiring about Pronger would have vanished. Don't believe me? Look at what happened. Toronto says no to trading Kaberle and Steen, so they go and sign Kubina. Florida says they're out of the running, and decide to settle for Salei. Anaheim was also saying that if the Pronger deal didn't get done, they had UFAs in mind to sign. Of course, some of this didn't come out until after the deal, and we don't know which other teams may have been interested. But it was clear that Lowe felt if he didn't do something soon, he would have been left holding the short end of the stick. After that, he may have been stuck with an unhappy Pronger till the trade deadline.
Yes, but Boston didn't have to trade away any assets either.
Awesome.
There was some instant backlash which I expected, but I thought things calmed down a bit too much after the Smyth trade.
This is more like it! Here's hoping upper management makes more announcements.
:grabs popcorn:
There was some instant backlash which I expected, but I thought things calmed down a bit too much after the Smyth trade.
This is more like it! Here's hoping upper management makes more announcements.
:grabs popcorn:
Seachd
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- Mar 16, 2002
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When someone says Ryan Smyth is "not a good player at all", you have to question what they've been watching for 12 years while the hockey game's on.
You forget to mention that the club, and Lowe had singled out Comrie for a subpar effort in a series they stated they should have won. Not only did that publically aired statement steam Comrie but it deflated value if he later needed to be dealt. Lowe then much later introduced an unprecedented gambit of his own spurious making that Comrie would have to pay out of his contract if he wanted to be traded citing that he couldn't get fair value in trade.... Consider how this move shot across the NHLPA bow.
Lowe called out several players for not playing well in that series, not just Comrie.
And do we honestly believe that GM's base their value on a player based on what other GM's say in the paper?
Especially months later?
You're asking the wrong question.
Than Tjarnqvist or Hejda?
Not really.
Than Greene or Smid?
Exceptionally.
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
The Rage
Registered User
No, he's alot better than Greene and Smid. Eaton's just an example of a very easy move that would have paid off because our defence was so bad.
The move wouldn't have paid off. Far too many forwards either underperformed or were hurt (or both) this year.
And I think the argument that the forward group was the bigger cause of the problem than the defence this year is a pretty valid one.
Between Horcoff getting off to a horrible start, Stoll and Torres having very inconsistant seasons, Moreau missing most of the year, Lupul being a huge disappointment, and Marty Reasoner having a poor season... those are a lot of things to go wrong for your team.
Yes, the troubles on the blueline also hurt... but this team was a lot more than one veteran blueliner away from making any sort of a difference this year.
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