Mcdavids or Crosby, first 3 seasons

[JimmyTwoTimes]

The Poll dont lie

 

[Turin]

Something tells me those willing to give McDavid a pass in the playoffs wouldn’t do the same for Crosby in the regular season. Like the Oilers fans who insist McDavid now is better than Crosby in 2010-13 because 87 didn’t play the games. Well McDavid didn’t play the games.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Draisaitl is better than any player Crosby played with his first 3 seasons other than Malkin, and arguably Hossa. To continue to argue like Draisaitl is simply decent is to basically refuse to acknowledge how good he is.

That's also ignoring the fact that, coming into this season, HF collectively voted the Oilers as the 2nd favorite to win the Cup this year. Yet, now that they had a dreadful year and missed the playoffs, we're back to hearing how McDavid has no one to play with.



Saying Crosby has the edge when it comes to playoff performance those first 3 seasons doesn't mean I'm saying Crosby didn't have a good supporting cast or that he carried the team all by himself. It simply means that Crosby, as an individual, performed better than McDavid, as an individual.

And before you keep going back to "but McDavid's supporting cast sucks!", Leon Draisaitl had 16 points in 13 games on that exact same team. He almost DOUBLED McDavid's production last year. Mark Letestu finished with more points than McDavid. Never in Crosby's career has he finished with half the points of his team's leading scoring, nor has he finished below the likes of Mark Letestu.

So again, no one is saying Crosby didn't have a stronger supporting cast. But that also doesn't mean you should then completely ignore that Crosby performed better than McDavid did. That's like saying you can't say Wayne Gretzky was a better playoff performer than Dale Hawerchuk because Gretzky played on a stacked team and Hawerchuk didn't.

Exactly. Give it about an hour for the next excuse. This will take a little longer

 

[GreatGonzo]

What does this have to do with Crosby being the better playoff performer because he lead his team in scoring in both of his playoff campaigns, and the league once, while McDavid was 3rd on his team, and 19th in the league in PPG (after 2 rounds).

It is inarguable that Crosby was the better playoff performer regardless of their respective supporting casts.

Because Crosby has had more opportunity to play in the post seasons where as McDavid hasn’t, pretty simple. It was his first and only playoffs, yet we are going to hold it against him because he didn’t do what Crosby did? It’s ridiculous. You can’t compare them right now in the playoffs.

Draisaitl is better than any player Crosby played with his first 3 seasons other than Malkin, and arguably Hossa. To continue to argue like Draisaitl is simply decent is to basically refuse to acknowledge how good he is.

That's also ignoring the fact that, coming into this season, HF collectively voted the Oilers as the 2nd favorite to win the Cup this year. Yet, now that they had a dreadful year and missed the playoffs, we're back to hearing how McDavid has no one to play with.



Saying Crosby has the edge when it comes to playoff performance those first 3 seasons doesn't mean I'm saying Crosby didn't have a good supporting cast or that he carried the team all by himself. It simply means that Crosby, as an individual, performed better than McDavid, as an individual.

And before you keep going back to "but McDavid's supporting cast sucks!", Leon Draisaitl had 16 points in 13 games on that exact same team. He almost DOUBLED McDavid's production last year. Mark Letestu finished with more points than McDavid. Never in Crosby's career has he finished with half the points of his team's leading scoring, nor has he finished below the likes of Mark Letestu.

So again, no one is saying Crosby didn't have a stronger supporting cast. But that also doesn't mean you should then completely ignore that Crosby performed better than McDavid did. That's like saying you can't say Wayne Gretzky was a better playoff performer than Dale Hawerchuk because Gretzky played on a stacked team and Hawerchuk didn't.

Pretty sure Draisaitl doesn’t play with McDavid, so does it matter? He’s good, but in the end, he hasn’t been nearly as impactful as McDavid has been for the Oilers. Even for the Pens, and a player like Malkin, who has been just as valuable as Crosby. McDavids value is clear as day compared to the rest of his team.

I don’t know what to say, I didn’t they they would do any better this season with the moves they made. I’m sure a lot of people weren’t surprised as well. But in the end McDavid is doing just as great as he was when they were in the playoff hunt, so I don’t see how he should be singled out, while Crosbt praised.

Like I said, it was his first post season....why are you acting like he was just flat out horrible and will never be any better. Your comparing a player who has only seen the post season once, to a player who has only missed the post season 2-3 times in his career, hardly comparable. Draisaitl over achieved while McDavid under achieved, similar to Crosby in 2016, and in the 09 finals. You can be quick and write him off after one post season, but that wouldn’t make much sense.

Crosby did perform better, but that doesn’t mean McDavid isn’t capable of performing at that level. Crosby also had the better team to make deeper playoff runs as well. That’s a terrible comparison if I ever saw one. McDavid is only in his 3rd year, and is on a significantly worst off team than Crosby was on his 3rd year.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Because Crosby has had more opportunity to play in the post seasons where as McDavid hasn’t, pretty simple. It was his first and only playoffs, yet we are going to hold it against him because he didn’t do what Crosby did? It’s ridiculous. You can’t compare them right now in the playoffs.

Pretty sure Draisaitl doesn’t play with McDavid, so does it matter? He’s good, but in the end, he hasn’t been nearly as impactful as McDavid has been for the Oilers. Even for the Pens, and a player like Malkin, who has been just as valuable as Crosby. McDavids value is clear as day compared to the rest of his team.

I don’t know what to say, I didn’t they they would do any better this season with the moves they made. I’m sure a lot of people weren’t surprised as well. But in the end McDavid is doing just as great as he was when they were in the playoff hunt, so I don’t see how he should be singled out, while Crosbt praised.

Like I said, it was his first post season....why are you acting like he was just flat out horrible and will never be any better. Your comparing a player who has only seen the post season once, to a player who has only missed the post season 2-3 times in his career, hardly comparable. Draisaitl over achieved while McDavid under achieved, similar to Crosby in 2016, and in the 09 finals. You can be quick and write him off after one post season, but that wouldn’t make much sense.

Crosby did perform better, but that doesn’t mean McDavid isn’t capable of performing at that level. Crosby also had the better team to make deeper playoff runs as well. That’s a terrible comparison if I ever saw one. McDavid is only in his 3rd year, and is on a significantly worst off team than Crosby was on his 3rd year.

Are you under the impression I'm comparing Crosby's entire career in the playoffs to McDavid's? Because I'm not. I'm comparing the time frame covered by this poll -- their first three years in the league to determine who was more impressive.

I think it's simple and straight forward. During their first three seasons in the league, Crosby's playoff performance was better than McDavid's. That doesn't mean McDavid will never surpass him, or that McDavid outright sucked worse than Alexei Yashin at his worst. It just means that from Year 1 to Year 3 (the years being discussed in this thread), Crosby gets the edge over McDavid when it comes to comparing their playoff performances.

 

[Turin]

Because Crosby has had more opportunity to play in the post seasons where as McDavid hasn’t, pretty simple. It was his first and only playoffs, yet we are going to hold it against him because he didn’t do what Crosby did? It’s ridiculous. You can’t compare them right now in the playoffs.


Pretty sure Draisaitl doesn’t play with McDavid, so does it matter? He’s good, but in the end, he hasn’t been nearly as impactful as McDavid has been for the Oilers. Even for the Pens, and a player like Malkin, who has been just as valuable as Crosby. McDavids value is clear as day compared to the rest of his team.

I don’t know what to say, I didn’t they they would do any better this season with the moves they made. I’m sure a lot of people weren’t surprised as well. But in the end McDavid is doing just as great as he was when they were in the playoff hunt, so I don’t see how he should be singled out, while Crosbt praised.

Like I said, it was his first post season....why are you acting like he was just flat out horrible and will never be any better. Your comparing a player who has only seen the post season once, to a player who has only missed the post season 2-3 times in his career, hardly comparable. Draisaitl over achieved while McDavid under achieved, similar to Crosby in 2016, and in the 09 finals. You can be quick and write him off after one post season, but that wouldn’t make much sense.

Crosby did perform better, but that doesn’t mean McDavid isn’t capable of performing at that level. Crosby also had the better team to make deeper playoff runs as well. That’s a terrible comparison if I ever saw one. McDavid is only in his 3rd year, and is on a significantly worst off team than Crosby was on his 3rd year.

McDavid played like over 60% of his ES shifts with Draisaitl last year and Drai is his most common linemate again this year. The Oilers staff might have clued in just recently that the teams success comes before stats so they put Nuge with McDavid instead.. still kind of killing their centre depth.

 

[daver]

Because Crosby has had more opportunity to play in the post seasons where as McDavid hasn’t, pretty simple. It was his first and only playoffs, yet we are going to hold it against him because he didn’t do what Crosby did? It’s ridiculous. You can’t compare them right now in the playoffs.

It's not about comparing, it;s acknowledging Crosby's success. What's wrong with that? It's not like it's unfair or anything.

Assuming that McDavid would do just as well if given the same opportunity is ridiculous.

By your reasoning, we can't possibly compare any seasons where one player was injured because they did not get the same opportunity to play that season.

 

[daver]

Draisaitl had 16 PTS in 13 GP after two rounds
Malkin had 14 PTS in 9 GP after two rounds. He had a bad final round (3 in 6 if I remember) It is also proven that scoring is harder in the last 2 rounds. (Malkin finished with 22 in 20)

Im not gonna go into details or any advanced stats, but it’s definitely arguable in my opinion.

OK, the point that Malkin was better than Draisatl "every step of the way" still has been shown to be untrue.

 

[daver]

Like I said, it was his first post season....why are you acting like he was just flat out horrible and will never be any better. r.

Have you seriously not looked up the definition of "strawman" yet after all these years of being told to. It has your name attached to it.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Because Crosby has had more opportunity to play in the post seasons where as McDavid hasn’t, pretty simple. It was his first and only playoffs, yet we are going to hold it against him because he didn’t do what Crosby did? It’s ridiculous. You can’t compare them right now in the playoffs.




Pretty sure Draisaitl doesn’t play with McDavid, so does it matter? He’s good, but in the end, he hasn’t been nearly as impactful as McDavid has been for the Oilers. Even for the Pens, and a player like Malkin, who has been just as valuable as Crosby. McDavids value is clear as day compared to the rest of his team.

I don’t know what to say, I didn’t they they would do any better this season with the moves they made. I’m sure a lot of people weren’t surprised as well. But in the end McDavid is doing just as great as he was when they were in the playoff hunt, so I don’t see how he should be singled out, while Crosbt praised.

Like I said, it was his first post season....why are you acting like he was just flat out horrible and will never be any better. Your comparing a player who has only seen the post season once, to a player who has only missed the post season 2-3 times in his career, hardly comparable. Draisaitl over achieved while McDavid under achieved, similar to Crosby in 2016, and in the 09 finals. You can be quick and write him off after one post season, but that wouldn’t make much sense.

Crosby did perform better, but that doesn’t mean McDavid isn’t capable of performing at that level. Crosby also had the better team to make deeper playoff runs as well. That’s a terrible comparison if I ever saw one. McDavid is only in his 3rd year, and is on a significantly worst off team than Crosby was on his 3rd year.

This basically destroys Davers argument, but Daver will continue to cling on that 13 game sample size and more excuses to why McDavid isn’t as good as Crosby.

 

[Turin]

This basically destroys Davers argument, but Daver will continue to cling on that 13 game sample size and more excuses to why McDavid isn’t as good as Crosby.

Does Crosby get punished for not getting to play during his prime or no?

 

[GreatGonzo]

Are you under the impression I'm comparing Crosby's entire career in the playoffs to McDavid's? Because I'm not. I'm comparing the time frame covered by this poll -- their first three years in the league to determine who was more impressive.

I think it's simple and straight forward. During their first three seasons in the league, Crosby's playoff performance was better than McDavid's. That doesn't mean McDavid will never surpass him, or that McDavid outright sucked worse than Alexei Yashin at his worst. It just means that from Year 1 to Year 3 (the years being discussed in this thread), Crosby gets the edge over McDavid when it comes to comparing their playoff performances.

And that still has little to do with the supporting cast Crosby had compared to McDavid?

OK, the point that Malkin was better than Draisatl "every step of the way" still has been shown to be untrue.

no the point was that’s Crosby wasn’t leading his team after 2 rounds, Malkin was. And then Hossa led them the final 2 rounds.

Are you suggesting Draisaitl and Malkin are comparable?....

Have you seriously not looked up the definition of "strawman" yet after all these years of being told to. It has your name attached to it.

”he was third in scoring behind Draisaitl and Letestu! Crosby would have never done that!”

The fact that that keeps getting brought up speaks for itself. It’s the point that everyone is making pretty clear.

It's not about comparing, it;s acknowledging Crosby's success. What's wrong with that? It's not like it's unfair or anything.

Assuming that McDavid would do just as well if given the same opportunity is ridiculous.

By your reasoning, we can't possibly compare any seasons where one player was injured because they did not get the same opportunity to play that season.

We can’t compare them without bringing up the playoffs? That’s where I’m coming from.

It’s easy to have Crosby be the favorite considering playoffs, yet that’s not quite fair for McDavid.

Are you under the impression I'm comparing Crosby's entire career in the playoffs to McDavid's? Because I'm not. I'm comparing the time frame covered by this poll -- their first three years in the league to determine who was more impressive.

I think it's simple and straight forward. During their first three seasons in the league, Crosby's playoff performance was better than McDavid's. That doesn't mean McDavid will never surpass him, or that McDavid outright sucked worse than Alexei Yashin at his worst. It just means that from Year 1 to Year 3 (the years being discussed in this thread), Crosby gets the edge over McDavid when it comes to comparing their playoff performances.

im not under that impression, I’m saying going with Crosby based on playoffs without understand that the team around him is a huge factor.

Not just that, but if Crosby was better than McDavid because of playoffs, that would mean that He had the better regular season resume as well? I don’t see that.

 

[GreatGonzo]

This basically destroys Davers argument, but Daver will continue to cling on that 13 game sample size and more excuses to why McDavid isn’t as good as Crosby.

Crosby fanboys can’t handle anyone else stealing his thunder. They always try to find a way to make him superior.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

OK, the point that Malkin was better than Draisatl "every step of the way" still has been shown to be untrue.

I mean look at the points totals?

Was 2009 Ovechkin better than 2008 Crosby?

 

[silkyjohnson50]

It has your name attached to it.

Kind of like daver and defend Crosby at all costs, objectively or not?

 

[Turin]

Still waiting for an answer.

 

[daver]

This basically destroys Davers argument, but Daver will continue to cling on that 13 game sample size and more excuses to why McDavid isn’t as good as Crosby.

A 13 game sample of what? McDavid's whole playoff resume for his first three seasons consists of 13 games. It's not a sample, it's the whole kit and caboodle.

Too bad McDavid couldn't do better than 3rd place in scoring on his team, perhaps there would be a bigger "sample" size of games to consider if he did.

 

[daver]

”he was third in scoring behind Draisaitl and Letestu! Crosby would have never done that!”

You know that Crosby actually didn't do that in his first three seasons right? But that's a hell of point you have made there.

 

[Turin]

Are you suggesting Draisaitl and Malkin are comparable?....

”he was third in scoring behind Draisaitl and Letestu! Crosby would have never done that!”

The fact that that keeps getting brought up speaks for itself. It’s the point that everyone is making pretty clear.

We can’t compare them without bringing up the playoffs? That’s where I’m coming from.

It’s easy to have Crosby be the favorite considering playoffs, yet that’s not quite fair for McDavid.

im not under that impression, I’m saying going with Crosby based on playoffs without understand that the team around him is a huge factor.

Not just that, but if Crosby was better than McDavid because of playoffs, that would mean that He had the better regular season resume as well? I don’t see that.

How are Connor’s regular seasons better? Crosby outpaced McDavid in his third year but only played 53 games, it’s not fair, he didn’t play the games. Right?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Crosby fanboys can’t handle anyone else stealing his thunder. They always try to find a way to make him superior.

I like Crosby and I even voted for him in this poll.

However, the lengths that a few go to discredit McDavid in any way shape or form like daver, is mind numbing.

 

[TMLeafs17]

I like Crosby and I even voted for him in this poll.

However, the lengths that a few go to discredit McDavid in any way shape or form like daver, is mind numbing.

If a mad homer like you voted for Crosby, how can it not be true?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

If a mad homer like you voted for Crosby, how can it not be true?

I’m a mad homer?

This is gold coming from, who?

 

[TMLeafs17]

I’m a mad homer?

This is gold coming from, who?

I’ve got no dog in this fight

Quote me saying something outlandish, please.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

I’ve got no dog in this fight

Quote me saying something outlandish, please.

I legit have no idea who you are.

 

[daver]

I like Crosby and I even voted for him in this poll.

However, the lengths that a few go to discredit McDavid in any way shape or form like daver, is mind numbing.

How am I discrediting McDavid? Sorry if pointing out he was 3rd on team in playoff scoring is a trigger for you but it's not discrediting.