Recalled/Assigned: McCarron recalled from Laval

[PuckSeparator]

I didn’t take it as a shot against McCarron, but about how few bodies are available to Laval.

Ah... maybe. Still probably should have said nothing considering such a comment can easily be misconstrued.

 

[Mrb1p]

Reason why the Timmins defense about the Tinordi pick fails everytime? The Michael McCarron pick. Were we still in the old NHL in 2013 too when we decided to pick slow and big?

Sad pick but who would you have picked? Hartman and Theodore are the only other ones having some success.

Also, Timmins picked the best player of the 2nd round, which is the 3rd best player picked out of the 3rd round.

He might have even picked the 3rd best player out of the 3rd round too!

Its not all doom and gloom Whitesnake

 

[Habs100]

He was picked at 25 and he is 6'6. You absolutely pick those kind of guys with those picks. If he can take key draws and play 12 minutes a night, cause some havok and wear down the other teams D then he can be a very useful guy to have in the bottom 6. If he can tap in some rebounds on the 2nd unit then he is going to be very valuable to us. Of course that might not happen, but THOSE kind of 4th liners are hard to find.

I have no problem with picking this guy at 25 in that draft year. Most of the other players drafted around his spot are also back and fourth trying to make the NHL.

If the NHL today was the same as it was 5 years ago you may have a point. I think in today's game that type of player is not a difference maker and is available, as I said on waivers or in the UFA market. You've got to be able to skate, stick handle and make plays in today's game, not just be 6'6, win draws, hit and fight.

Can you name one such player, playing today, that is is a 4th liner that's worth spending a late 1st round pick on?

 

[admiralcadillac]

I like Big Mac but he's definitely closing in on his last few chances with the team. He will probably get another shot next year during camp too.

 

[Habs100]

Reason why the Timmins defense about the Tinordi pick fails everytime? The Michael McCarron pick. Were we still in the old NHL in 2013 too when we decided to pick slow and big?

Yes, we were still in the "old NHL." The game has changed a lot since 2013. There isn't one old NHL and one new NHL. It's been changing from year to year. When we got McCarron everyone was saying we finally have someone who could stand up to Lucic. Lucic was a dominant player. Now, no one would take 29 year old still in his prime Lucic for free. When Bergevin came in, in 2012, he said we have to get bigger and we're going to place more emphasis on size. And everyone applauded him because that was important in 2013. Now at his press conference, he says we need to get faster. No mention of size, because it's not the same game as 2012.

When we got Tinordi, we had just lost to Philly in the conference finals. We were a small team, having just signed Cammalleri, Gionta, and Gomez. We were called the smurfs. I remember that series well, we lost mainly because of size. Philly manhandled us.

It's too bad you fail to see those basic facts, about how different the game was when we drafted McCarron in 2013 and Tinordi in 2010.

 

[angry pirate]

If the NHL today was the same as it was 5 years ago you may have a point. I think in today's game that type of player is not a difference maker and is available, as I said on waivers or in the UFA market. You've got to be able to skate, stick handle and make plays in today's game, not just be 6'6, win draws, hit and fight.

Can you name one such player, playing today, that is is a 4th liner that's worth spending a late 1st round pick on?

McCarron was taken just as the old era was ending, where size was somewhat more important than it is now. He was taken just after we got run over and beaten up in the playoffs. It was a reactionary pick for sure, and in hindsight likely a mistake. But McCarron wasn't taken to be a bottom six player as some are claiming. He was taken with the belief that he could develop into a big middle six center. 2nd line ceiling, but at the very least, a 3rd line center. Either of those results would be more than adequate from a late 1st round pick. Obviously those expectations have become tempered in the last year or so. Even still, despite the fact that bottom line players are relatively cheap, good ones can still go for 2nd/3rd round picks at times. Given that late 1st round picks only become NHL regulars around 1/3 of the time, if McCarron makes it, even as a fourth liner, it'll be a successful pick even if a slightly disappointing one.

 

[Schwang]

No expectations of this guy at all. He was overhyped by fans and has never lived up to expectations

 

[Paddyjack]

I remember when we picked him I was hoping he would turn out playing like Tim Kerr. For those who never knew him, Kerr was a huge player that was doing what Gallagher does, i.e. standing near the crease and picking up rebounds. Unlike Gally, he couldn't be moved around lol. I thought that a big guy like Mac would be a huge asset on the PP by playing this way, but I guess he doesn't skate fast enough to go to the net in time lol.

 

[Whitesnake]

Sad pick but who would you have picked? Hartman and Theodore are the only other ones having some success.

Also, Timmins picked the best player of the 2nd round, which is the 3rd best player picked out of the 3rd round.

He might have even picked the 3rd best player out of the 3rd round too!

Its not all doom and gloom Whitesnake

I rarely talk about who, who else, and so on. My point is mostly about strategy. But yes, if you believe in d-man with puck skills, you go with Theodore. Personnally, it was probably going to be a bad pick, but I was really high on Compher. Erne, Zykov and Dauphin. But again, it's not about that. It's about the needs strategy. Yet, McCarron was big, but slow and didn't show offensive potential. Before that needs became NHL needs, there was a lot to do. Usually, our journalists are always able to find scouts that have good words for Timmins and his 1st picks. Was much tougher in 2013.

 

[Astormynight]

and the racoon thing (in Basu comment) is obviously a link to Guardians of the Galaxy.. where the racoon is called.. Rocke. I think he just wanted to make this joke...

but maybe i'm captain Obvious here =D

 

[Whitesnake]

Yes, we were still in the "old NHL." The game has changed a lot since 2013. There isn't one old NHL and one new NHL. It's been changing from year to year. When we got McCarron everyone was saying we finally have someone who could stand up to Lucic. Lucic was a dominant player. Now, no one would take 29 year old still in his prime Lucic for free. When Bergevin came in, in 2012, he said we have to get bigger and we're going to place more emphasis on size. And everyone applauded him because that was important in 2013. Now at his press conference, he says we need to get faster. No mention of size, because it's not the same game as 2012.

When we got Tinordi, we had just lost to Philly in the conference finals. We were a small team, having just signed Cammalleri, Gionta, and Gomez. We were called the smurfs. I remember that series well, we lost mainly because of size. Philly manhandled us.

It's too bad you fail to see those basic facts, about how different the game was when we drafted McCarron in 2013 and Tinordi in 2010.

This is Bullcrap. When McCarron himself compared his game to Lucic's, everybody was saying to settle down. That he had a LONG way before he could reach that. Nobody that knows how the prospect world works would say AT THE TIME OF THE PICK that we ''finally have soembody to stand up to Lucic''. Nobody has we all know that being drafted doesn't mean making it. You talk about facts and you have no facts yourself. Where are the facts that everybody loved it and that he was for sure going to be our Lucic. It's funny, it's really as if you think the Habs play in their own league. And the others are playing in a different league. How the heck do you pick McCarron so that he comes in and makes us bigger if he can't make it at all. You don't see how needs is a completely stupid approach?

In the meantime, as bad as 2013 was, Vancouver, in this NHL of yours, they decided to go with the towering Bo Horvat. NOt Nichuskin. And Columbus went for Wennberg, not Frédéric Gauthier.

Being able to respond to Philly, as you say, is by adding a NHL'er. How many examples of towering big guys that never made it whether it was in the OLd, new, pre-new or whatever NHL?

Strange how you solely respond to one piece of statement....but never responded to the one I gave you about your Gallager example. You said, there is no way in today's NHL that you do not pick up a guy who scores 50 goals in juniors in the first rounds. That's a sign of the old NHL, the fact that we picked up Gallager in the 5th round.

So how do you explain Tyler Steenbergen? 50 goals. 5th round. IN 2017.

 

[De Montreal]

Didnt he had good chemistry with Hudon and Scherbak from the past years?

Hudon - McCarron - Scherbak line sure would be interesting and make me watch the game tonight

 

[groovejuice]

Seriously, WTF kinda comment is that? I never really cared for Arpon one way or another before, but who exactly does he think he is to make that kind of comment?

I'm pretty sure he's joking about the number of Laval players with the Habs currently. The big team's injuries have depleted the roster there.

 

[Habs100]

This is Bullcrap. When McCarron himself compared his game to Lucic's, everybody was saying to settle down. That he had a LONG way before he could reach that. Nobody that knows how the prospect world works would say AT THE TIME OF THE PICK that we ''finally have soembody to stand up to Lucic''. Nobody has we all know that being drafted doesn't mean making it. You talk about facts and you have no facts yourself. Where are the facts that everybody loved it and that he was for sure going to be our Lucic. It's funny, it's really as if you think the Habs play in their own league. And the others are playing in a different league. How the heck do you pick McCarron so that he comes in and makes us bigger if he can't make it at all. You don't see how needs is a completely stupid approach?

In the meantime, as bad as 2013 was, Vancouver, in this NHL of yours, they decided to go with the towering Bo Horvat. NOt Nichuskin. And Columbus went for Wennberg, not Frédéric Gauthier.

Being able to respond to Philly, as you say, is by adding a NHL'er. How many examples of towering big guys that never made it whether it was in the OLd, new, pre-new or whatever NHL?

Strange how you solely respond to one piece of statement....but never responded to the one I gave you about your Gallager example. You said, there is no way in today's NHL that you do not pick up a guy who scores 50 goals in juniors in the first rounds. That's a sign of the old NHL, the fact that we picked up Gallager in the 5th round.

So how do you explain Tyler Steenbergen? 50 goals. 5th round. IN 2017.

The point is that 29 year old Lucic in 2018's game is not 2013 Lucic. It's not because he's over the hill, he's 29. It's because the game has changed. I'm not going to go through the Gallagher example. It was an example of how the game has changed.

If you don't understand that the game has changed since we drafted McCarron in 2013, where some bigger players who could succeed in 2013 won't succeed now, and how some smaller players who couldn't succeed in 2013 or in 201o can succeed now, I don't know what to tell you.

I was responding to your claim about Tinordi, that the NHL wasn't different in 2013 than it is today, and that the era Tinordi was drafted in, where size was a much bigger part of the game, is irrelevant. Both points make no sense. That's the point of the Gallagher example, not the example itself. I'm not going to get side tracked. Let's stick to the point.

 

[WinterLion]

If the NHL today was the same as it was 5 years ago you may have a point. I think in today's game that type of player is not a difference maker and is available, as I said on waivers or in the UFA market. You've got to be able to skate, stick handle and make plays in today's game, not just be 6'6, win draws, hit and fight.

Can you name one such player, playing today, that is is a 4th liner that's worth spending a late 1st round pick on?

Definitely you are not wrong that the league is moving away from those types. The thing is that if that 6'6 player can do that (make plays etc..), then they stop being simply waiver wire 4th liners. Obviously if MCarron can't do all that then he will just be waiver wire too... but the hope when drafting him is that he becomes more. McCarron has decent hands and vision. It's not like he was drafted to be a 4th liner... but if can do what Andrew Shaw does but be 6'6 then it turns into a great pick.

 

[WinterLion]

I like Big Mac but he's definitely closing in on his last few chances with the team. He will probably get another shot next year during camp too.

I think Bergevin will be patient with him like he has been with DLR. Giving up on these types of players is unwise. Unless the kid is unhappy or has stopped progressing I think we will try to give him time to become a player. The thing with guys that size is that they can make an impact on your team without playing a huge role. Of course there is definitely the chance that it doesn't work out, but it's not over yet.

 

[Whitesnake]

The point is that 29 year old Lucic in 2018's game is 2013 Lucic. It's not because he's over the hill, he's 29. It's because the game has changed. I'm not going to go through the Gallagher example. It was an example of how the game has changed.

If you don't understand that the game has changed since we drafted McCarron in 2013, where some bigger players who could succeed in 2013 won't succeed now, and how some smaller players who couldn't succeed in 2013 or in 201o can succeed now, I don't know what to tell you.

I was responding to your claim about Tinordi, that the NHL wasn't different in 2013 than it is today, and that the era Tinordi was drafted in, where size was a much bigger part of the game, is irrelevant. Both points make no sense. That's the point of the Gallagher example, not the example itself. I'm not going to get side tracked. Let's stick to the point.

You specially told me and explained to me that the game has changed so much that you wouldn't see right now a guy like Gallagher being drafted so late with the stats he had. In 2010. Sure. 'CAuse of the game. But not right now. And yet, I demonstrated that in 2017, a Gallagher was picked at the 5th round. Your example of how the game has changed is NOT an example 'cause you had another Gallagher example in 2017. Come on man.....you talk about facts. At least admit that one. In 2017, Michael Rasmussen was picked. We don't know if it will end up being a great pick....but I can assure you that there will be better players chosen after him. Your talking to me as if the game was what it was back then, HENCE the Tinordi and McCarron picks, and yet, I can name you the same types of picks RIGHT NOW. So what is your argument about the picks today? Why was Steenbergen drafted to late? If it has nothing to do with how the game has changed? Why did Rasmussen picked that early? At one point, you will come up and say that a guy like Cale Makar would have never been drafted in the old NHL and yet I named you Thomas Hickey in 2009. A frail and unknown Erik Karlsson? Nick Leddy? Ryan Ellis? They were ALL picked soon in the 1st round. But your explanation is....they wouldn't have succeeded if the game didn't change? You are changing the goalposts everytime man. It,s not about that. It's about the fact that they were picked. That's a fact. When those teams picked them, they thought they deserved to be picked at that rank. So what was it then? Bad picks? Good picks 'cause those teams had vision? Just good picks? Hickey was finally a bad pick....not because he was small. But because talent didn't translate. BUt also because it was just a bad pick. Like there are tons of them. Live Pavel Brendl was finally a bad pick and so on.

YES. The hockey has given the chance to more smaller players to have a say in the game. And it removed the much slower player from the game too. Just like it removed the enforcers. But talented players will always prevail. It,s absolutely false to think that all slower players will be Not sure why you keep saying that I don't see it. I do. I did. But it still doesn't explain the fact why we went the way we did. You should go with skills with your draft picks. You don't go with needs when it won't be a need if the guy doesn't make it.

And there no side tracks here. You claim there wouldn't be a Gallagher in today's hockey. I proved there was.

 

[Habs]

He and Deslauriers could wreak some havoc out there lol

 

[Price is Wright]

Here's the thing.

Anyone saying we needed to get bigger in 2010 and 2013 was wrong. We needed more skill. Philly had more skill. Ottawa hurt our guys early on but we manhandled them in the second last game. It didn't matter. They were more skilled.

Also react drafting is the worst kind of drafting. If you think you got beat up in the playoffs, drafting a guy who won't be ready in 3-5 years does nothing to solve it. You solve those issues in trades and free agency.

It doesn't really matter anyway. Timmins said he wanted De la Rose. No McCarron we just draft DLR first round.

 

[WeThreeKings]

"And to the left you'll see the broken husk of a first round draft pick.. brought to you by Sylvain Lefebvre, Michel Therrien and Marc Bergevin"

 

[Doc McKenna]

Reason why the Timmins defense about the Tinordi pick fails everytime? The Michael McCarron pick. Were we still in the old NHL in 2013 too when we decided to pick slow and big?

Sounds like Bergies dream pick to me.

 

[Deebs]

He and Deslauriers could wreak some havoc out there lol

I actually wouldn't mind seeing Deslauriers - DLR - McCarron as a 4th line for a few games. We'd have 2 C on it when someone gets tossed out of the circle and with Mac on the wing, his weaker skating ability would be less of an issue.

 

[Price is Wright]

Sounds like Bergies dream pick to me.

It's odd that Tinordi didn't work out with Bergevin. Son of a hockey player, big and strong, mostly defensive minded. Then again it's more Therrien stapling him to the bench.

It's honestly incredible how many second and third generation players have come through Montreal during Bergevin's tenure and did absolutely nothing of note. I can't count them right now but I wouldn't be surprised if it has been over a dozen.

 

[justafan22]

It's odd that Tinordi didn't work out with Bergevin. Son of a hockey player, big and strong, mostly defensive minded. Then again it's more Therrien stapling him to the bench.

It's honestly incredible how many second and third generation players have come through Montreal during Bergevin's tenure and did absolutely nothing of note. I can't count them right now but I wouldn't be surprised if it has been over a dozen.

Dwight king goat

 

[montreal]

Don't think it's his last chance or he'll be traded, we should suck next year so why not give him the year to show what he can or can't do. It's not like he's going to get much in a trade and what do we have to lose by keeping him. Still think he'll make it as a decent 4th liner.