Matthews vs Draisaitl: Better player to build around

[Kairi Zaide]

Most people in general vote neutral when they are nothing close to neutral, which makes those split polls even more useless than your average poll. They are used to dismiss opinions, in order to manufacture a result.

This. It's not just true about Leafs fans. They're just more numerous than other fanbases. Segregating poll options as such to dismiss the opinion of a certain group amongst a population removes any statistical validity a poll might have, since you want the population that responds to the poll to be representative of the population in general. You can be interested in knowing what a certain group within a population thinks, but you can't dismiss their opinion. Basic stats 101 stuff.

Unfortunately, that also isn't the case with most polls here as polls involving Team A and Team B are going to attract a proportion of fans from Team A and Team B (and haters if I may say) that is not representative of the overall hockey fanbase.

 

[Windy River]

I voted Matthews- and I’d say I’m quite ‘neutral’ on this, being from Vancouver and not having any particular like or dislike for either team. I believe that Matthews ‘excitement factor‘, combined with solid reliable goal scoring makes him a better candidate for building around. I think Matthews is more like the type of player that could pick up the team on his back and grit out a come from behind win in a big game than Drai is capable of. The type of thing that makes the team shift their thinking and outlook going forward. And I think we will see this scenario play out before the end of Matthews career.

 

[Varan]

Why are people bringing up "at the same age"? You're not going to be 20 forever. Part of being in sports is improving your game as you get older.

One has taken a grand canyon leap where as the other, not so much. We're talking about right now and Drai was a top-3 player this past season. There were many parts of the season where many thought he would out-point McDavid and win the Ross when healthy. Matthews has shown that he hasn't elevated his overall offensive game the way Drai has. He will never challenge McDavid or any of the top guns for the Ross playing the way he is.

Not saying he isn't a good offensive player, but he is not in that elite upper-echelon of McDavid, Drai, Kucherov, Kane, MacKinnon. Stop being stuck in the past.

 

[Aladyyn]

Why are people bringing up "at the same age"? You're not going to be 20 forever. Part of being in sports is improving your game as you get older.

One has taken a grand canyon leap where as the other, not so much. We're talking about right now and Drai was a top-3 player this past season. There were many parts of the season where many thought he would out-point McDavid and win the Ross when healthy. Matthews has shown that he hasn't elevated his overall offensive game the way Drai has. He will never challenge McDavid or any of the top guns for the Ross playing the way he is.

Not saying he isn't a good offensive player, but he is not in that elite upper-echelon of McDavid, Drai, Kucherov, Kane, MacKinnon. Stop being stuck in the past.

Imagine saying people are stuck in the past right after saying Patrick Kane is elite lmfao

 

[The Moose is Loose]

There would be a meltdown.

But remember, this is also the fan base that once touted Tyler Bozak as a legit #1 center around the league and also said Luke "the human eraser" Schenn was a top shutdown defenceman in the league. So take it with a grain of salt.

Thats some damning evidence right there

 

[Varan]

Imagine saying people are stuck in the past right after saying Patrick Kane is elite lmfao

patrick kane isn't elite now. you heard it hear folks. on pace for 98 points this season at age 31. but not elite.

coming off of a 110 point season -- but not elite

wow

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Matthews. Who cares if you win the Art Ross if you’re a MINUS player. It means he gave up more points than he scored. Draisaitl also racked almost half his points on the PP being fed from McDavid.

If you want to argue Draisaitl is more well rounded offensively, fine. But he’s also 2 years older and is a one way player.

Draisaitl actually scored more goals than against this year.

 

[Aladyyn]

patrick kane isn't elite now. you heard it hear folks. on pace for 98 points this season at age 31. but not elite.

coming off of a 110 point season -- but not elite

wow

Those are some big numbers you have there!

 

[Varan]

Matthews. Who cares if you win the Art Ross if you’re a MINUS player. It means he gave up more points than he scored. Draisaitl also racked almost half his points on the PP being fed from McDavid.

If you want to argue Draisaitl is more well rounded offensively, fine. But he’s also 2 years older and is a one way player.

so if mcdavid won the art ross this year being a minus player, you would take matthews over him right? he plays on the same line with Drai and most of his points came off of him

he's also a year older and a 1 way player

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

patrick kane isn't elite now. you heard it hear folks. on pace for 98 points this season at age 31. but not elite.

coming off of a 110 point season -- but not elite

wow

Matthews was on pace for 93-94 points. Is 4-5 points really such a huge gap? Especially considering Matthews is a far better goal scorer

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Imagine saying people are stuck in the past right after saying Patrick Kane is elite lmfao

So you would agree that Eichel isn't elite?

 

[Aladyyn]

So you would agree that Eichel isn't elite?

1) what relevance does that have?

2) I don't think Eichel is top 10 at his position

 

[6ix]

so if mcdavid won the art ross this year being a minus player, you would take matthews over him right? he plays on the same line with Drai and most of his points came off of him

he's also a year older and a 1 way player

No because McDavid has a track record with 2 Art Rosses as a + player.

Draisaitl is a minus player in 4 of his 6 NHL seasons. Career minus player. One way player that cheats for offense and racks a ton of PP points being fed from McDavid.

So no, I wouldn’t build around a one way player like Draisaitl.

 

[Varan]

Matthews was on pace for 93-94 points. Is 4-5 points really such a huge gap? Especially considering Matthews is a far better goal scorer

I was just responding to the accusation of Kane not being elite.

My point is that he is 31 and putting up 100-point caliber seasons. He needs to do that in order to compete with the top producers. 93-94, while great, isn't going to cut it. Lots of people on HF believed that 95 (or around there) was going to be Matthews' peak point total.

Good, but no where close to the top. Matthews has had 4 seasons of tape. I haven't seen the playmaking that much. In fact, it's almost improved proportionately to his goals.

22-24 is usually the peak of a player's point production. It seems like there isn't going to be much change in his game going forward to suggest such an increase in production, to the point where we can definitively say that Matthews is in the conversation with the top guns in the league -- the best player in the league.

He'll have his goals, but not much else it seems. Does that suggest elite/top-tier? Don't know. Subjective if you ask me.

 

[GreeningOil]

No because McDavid has a track record with 2 Art Rosses as a + player.

Draisaitl is a minus player in 4 of his 6 NHL seasons. Career minus player. One way player that cheats for offense and racks a ton of PP points being fed from McDavid.

So no, I wouldn’t build around a one way player like Draisaitl.

Who feeds Auston Matthews? Does he get 40 unassisted goals every year? Or does Toronto tend to play good players together too?

 

[Varan]

No because McDavid has a track record with 2 Art Rosses as a + player.

Draisaitl is a minus player in 4 of his 6 NHL seasons. Career minus player. One way player that cheats for offense and racks a ton of PP points being fed from McDavid.

So no, I wouldn’t build around a one way player like Draisaitl.

Well Drai just got 1 Ross on McDavid's head. McDavid has been a plus player 3/5 years. Is that really something to brag about? He could easily be 2/5.

Both are the backbone of the offense and most of the time, the only offense, so cheating on defense isn't that blasphemous as it may seem. Matthews has a grand canyon's worth of offensive talent around him which takes the offensive load off of his back in order to focus on other parts of the game such as defense.

 

[Varan]

Who feeds Auston Matthews? Does he get 40 unassisted goals every year? Or does Toronto tend to play good players together too?

I swear every Matthews fan in this thread has conveniently forgotten this

 

[LeafsNation75]

No because McDavid has a track record with 2 Art Rosses as a + player.

Draisaitl is a minus player in 4 of his 6 NHL seasons. Career minus player. One way player that cheats for offense and racks a ton of PP points being fed from McDavid.

So no, I wouldn’t build around a one way player like Draisaitl.

To put that into comparison Matthews has been a + player in 3/4 seasons, with his highest being +25 in the 2017-18 season. For the 2019-20 season he was +19.

The highest Draisaitl has been was +7 in the 2016-17 season.

 

[6ix]

Who feeds Auston Matthews? Does he get 40 unassisted goals every year? Or does Toronto tend to play good players together too?

I’ll tell you who’s not feeding Matthews, Connor McDavid. The best offensive player in the NHL. As good as Marner is, he’s NOT McDavid.

McDavid is also a threat to score goals where as the whole world knows Marner is trying to just pass it. I’m not disputing Draisaitl being elite offensively but don’t act like McDavid doesn’t play a big part in that.

 

[GreeningOil]

I’ll tell you who’s not feeding Matthews, Connor McDavid. The best offensive player in the NHL. As good as Marner is, he’s NOT McDavid.

McDavid is also a threat to score goals where as the whole world knows Marner is trying to just pass it. I’m not disputing Draisaitl being elite offensively but don’t act like McDavid doesn’t play a big part in that.

I understand your argument, but there is some serious talent around Matthews. Better offensive d-men too. McDaddy is the best, but 3 great players on a line is better that what Edmonton was putting out there

 

[Aladyyn]

I swear every Matthews fan in this thread has conveniently forgotten this

Matthews plays with 0 players better than him. Key difference.

 

[6ix]

Well Drai just got 1 Ross on McDavid's head. McDavid has been a plus player 3/5 years. Is that really something to brag about? He could easily be 2/5.

Both are the backbone of the offense and most of the time, the only offense, so cheating on defense isn't that blasphemous as it may seem. Matthews has a grand canyon's worth of offensive talent around him which takes the offensive load off of his back in order to focus on other parts of the game such as defense.

Matthews has been consistently improving his ppg each year, and is over a career ppg player at a much younger age than Draisaitl.

Add the fact he’s developing an excellent 2 way game, which is important for a centremen. Something Draisaitl does not seem to take seriously in his game.

This thread is asking who you’d build around. Why would you build around a 1 way player especially at centre. Points mean nothing if you give up more the other way, which is a trend for Draisaitl.

 

[Varan]

+/- is not something to use for an argument because it doesn't take into account the situation of the team. It would work if all things were created equal, but they're not.

Draisaitl and McDavid are the backbone of the offense, so they shoulder the most of the offensive load (and many nights, all of it). If they don't produce, the Oilers get annihilated. So if you play high minutes trying to produce offense as the only viable source, and if that viable source doesn't produce, of course your +/- is going to tank.

Matthews is in a completely different situation. He has a grand canyon of offensive talent around him. That takes off a lot of the pressure off of his shoulders in order to produce offensive. It's easy to play with great players. Everyone is capable of scoring, and the leafs are a high octane offense. That's why his +/- is so great.

How do people not understand this

Imagine Matthews as the sole means of offense on Oilers and put McDavid and Drai on the Leafs. No Matthews fan would touch +/- with a ten-foot pole.

Case closed.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I’ll tell you who’s not feeding Matthews, Connor McDavid. The best offensive player in the NHL. As good as Marner is, he’s NOT McDavid.

McDavid is also a threat to score goals where as the whole world knows Marner is trying to just pass it. I’m not disputing Draisaitl being elite offensively but don’t act like McDavid doesn’t play a big part in that.

The one good thing about other teams expecting Marner to pass the puck to Matthews is the odd time it won't happen and Marner gets a goal like this.



Let's not forget that Matthews had this assist on another Marner goal when no one expected Matthews to make a pass like this.

 

[Varan]

Matthews plays with 0 players better than him. Key difference.

The key difference is that he has many great players around him. Drai only has one