Matthews vs Draisaitl: Better player to build around

[Aladyyn]

You actually think plus minus is a useful stat?

It's about as useful as points.

 

[Varan]

That's just a worthless hypothetical lmao. It's not like they're exactly destroying teams out there playing the way they do.

It's literally how it is......

LeBron in 2018 with the Cavs was criticized to no end for his no show on defense, while conveniently forgetting the load he had to shoulder due to his incompetent team. How can you be so ignorant to this?

Ask Nashville, Arizona, Toronto, New Jersey, Colorado if they didn't get destroyed by those 2

 

[LeafsNation75]

Regarding the second bolded, Oilers fans don't hate it. It's just that when you try to put that specific category on a pedestal over everything else, is what makes them hate it.

The Oilers fans are using stats like Draisaitl having more total points than Matthews, so that's not something put into a specific category on a pedestal?

How about also mentioning that they think Draisaitl has a better contract. What does that have to do with their play on the ice?

 

[Varan]

Lol, sure it is.

Try agai.... err nvm. Just stop and quit while you’re behind lol.

And as you stated the leafs had AHL defence with their injuries, but Matthews still a +19. Because he actually plays a 2 way game instead of cheating for offense.

ok.

Ovechkin should have won the Selke in 2010 if we are using your logic. he was +45

 

[Aladyyn]

It's literally how it is......

LeBron in 2018 with the Cavs was criticized to no end for his no show on defense, while conveniently forgetting the load he had to shoulder due to his incompetent team. How can you be so ignorant to this?

Ask Nashville, Arizona, Toronto, New Jersey, Colorado if they didn't get destroyed by those 2

Draisaitl's 5on5 goal differential on the season is +7. It definitely wouldn't hurt him to play some D once in a while.

 

[6ix]

You actually think plus minus is a useful stat?

With context absolutely. It’s not being cherry picked from this season. It’s a constant trend throughout Draisaitl’s career.

 

[Varan]

Draisaitl's 5on5 goal differential on the season is +7. It definitely wouldn't hurt him to play some D once in a while.

is +7 supposed to be bad?

What would Matthews' +/- be on the Oilers?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

It's about as useful as points.

You also thought ROR and Reinhart were a better duo than McDavid and Draisaitl a couple years back.

LMAO

 

[Aladyyn]

is +7 supposed to be bad?

What would Matthews' +/- be on the Oilers?

Pretty bad compared to elite players, yeah. Matthews had more than 3 times better impact on goal differential by RAPM for example.

 

[Aladyyn]

You also thought ROR and Reinhart were a better duo than McDavid and Draisaitl a couple years back.

LMAO

Well I'm still waiting for the first actual argument you provide and all I've got is whataboutism.

 

[Varan]

The Oilers fans are using stats like Draisaitl having more total points than Matthews, so that's not something put into a specific category on a pedestal?

How about also mentioning that they think Draisaitl has a better contract. What does that have to do with their play on the ice?

Points > goals. He is a superior offensive player than Matthews. Matthews is the better goal-scorer (but not by much and certainly not to the degree that Drai is > Matthews overall offensively). That's where the issue is

His contract is a joke compared to his play (talking about Drai). Certainly expect him to get his money. As for Matthews, let me ask you something:

Do you believe Matthews is worth $11M?

 

[6ix]

ok.

Ovechkin should have won the Selke in 2010 if we are using your logic. he was +45

Wingers don’t win the selke bud. They don’t have the defensive responsibility of a centre. Although one can argue if Draisaitl is a winger or centre...

 

[Varan]

Pretty bad compared to elite players, yeah. Matthews had more than 3 times better impact on goal differential by RAPM for example.

All situations are not equal. How would his impact affect him on the Oilers as ~50% of the offense?

 

[Varan]

Wingers don’t win the selke bud. They don’t have the defensive responsibility of a centre. Although one can argue if Draisaitl is a winger or centre...

Just using your logic.

So does that mean we can predict Matthews winning the Selke because of his +/- and his center role?

 

[LeafsNation75]

With context absolutely. It’s not being cherry picked from this season. It’s a constant trend throughout Draisaitl’s career.

Draisaitl has been in the NHL for six seasons. He was a minus player in 4/6 years with his worst being -17 during his rookie season in 2014-15. He was +7 during the 2016-17 season and a +2 during the 2018-19 season when he had 50 goals.

Auston Matthews has been in the NHL for four seasons. In 3/4 seasons he was a plus player with his highest being +25 in the 2017-18 season. The lowest plus rating he had was +2 in his rookie season in 2016-17. I already mentioned before during the most recent 2019-20 season he was +19. The only time he was a minus player was the 2018-19 season when he was -9.

So that clearly shows it's a trend where Matthews is consistently a plus player and Draisaitl is a minus player.

 

[Dekes For Days]

See Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin.

They are not good examples. They scored a bunch early because they entered the league when star players were being pumped with massive amounts of PP time after the lockout.

Also, they don't even support what you said. Crosby got injured and we didn't get to see his peak fully realized, but he produced best between ages 23-26. Malkin had his best producing season at 25. Ovechkin had his best producing season at 24.

Do you believe that his raw production will increase by so much that he will be a legitimate threat for the Ross? His abilities by default have to improve for this to even happen. He won't score 60-70 goals no matter how many more opportunities he gets.

He could score 60+ goals and 100+ points just based on increased opportunity. I don't really care about the Ross, and I don't think he'll ever necessarily be a favourite for a playmaker-skewed award against a healthy McDavid, but yes, he definitely has the ability to win it.

 

[Aladyyn]

Points > goals. He is a superior offensive player than Matthews. Matthews is the better goal-scorer (but not by much and certainly not to the degree that Drai is > Matthews overall offensively). That's where the issue is

His contract is a joke compared to his play (talking about Drai). Certainly expect him to get his money. As for Matthews, let me ask you something:

Do you believe Matthews is worth $11M?

Draisaitl is the superior offensive player, Matthews is the superior overall player.

 

[6ix]

Points > goals. He is a superior offensive player than Matthews. Matthews is the better goal-scorer (but not by much and certainly not to the degree that Drai is > Matthews overall offensively). That's where the issue is

His contract is a joke compared to his play (talking about Drai). Certainly expect him to get his money. As for Matthews, let me ask you something:

Do you believe Matthews is worth $11M?

Why are you disregarding 2 way play in this post? No one is disputing Draisaitl putting up more points.

But I’d rather build around the better goal scorer and 2 way player at age 22 than a strictly one way player in Draisaitl.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Points > goals. He is a superior offensive player than Matthews. Matthews is the better goal-scorer (but not by much and certainly not to the degree that Drai is > Matthews overall offensively). That's where the issue is

His contract is a joke compared to his play (talking about Drai). Certainly expect him to get his money. As for Matthews, let me ask you something:

Do you believe Matthews is worth $11M?

Yes I honestly believe Matthews is worth $11 million. Hell every non Leafs fans on here wanted to see Matthews become an RFA and sign some mega offer sheet from the Coyotes. So they obviously thought Matthews is a great player if they wanted that to happen.

Also with the exception of Matthews only scoring 4 more goals than Draisaitl this past season let's remember these numbers.

In the 2016-17 Matthews outscored him by 11 goals, 40 - 29.

In the 2017-18 season Matthews outscored him by 9 goals, 34 - 25.

So in 3/4 years we have seen Matthews clearly be the better goal scorer and has one season where he was double digits better in goal scoring.

 

[Varan]

They are not good examples. They scored a bunch early because they entered the league when star players were being pumped with massive amounts of PP time after the lockout.

Also, they don't even support what you said. Crosby got injured and we didn't get to see his peak fully realized, but he produced best between ages 23-26. Malkin had his best producing season at 25. Ovechkin had his best producing season at 24.

He could score 60+ goals and 100+ points just based on increased opportunity. I don't really care about the Ross, and I don't think he'll ever necessarily be a favourite for a playmaker-skewed award against a healthy McDavid, but yes, he definitely has the ability to win it.

They're best seasons are from 09-12, some of the lowest scoring seasons to date (especially compared to today). They were 24/23/25 years of age (OV/Crosby/Malkin).

Whoops, 25 can be added. Point still stands. That is usually the time frame. Hell, we might be seeing peak McDavid right about now.

I highly highly doubt it. Scoring 60 isn't some easy feat and he first needs to prove that he can score 50 (doesn't get the benefit of the doubt like OV). I see him more as a 55-45 player at his absolute best, and I highly doubt 100 points will win the Ross with the players in this league

 

[Varan]

Why are you disregarding 2 way play in this post? No one is disputing Draisaitl putting up more points.

But I’d rather build around the better goal scorer and 2 way player at age 22 than a strictly one way player in Draisaitl.

Matthews is not known for his 2-way play. Stop it. He was getting killed since his first year about being lazy in his own end and off the puck.

 

[Varan]

Draisaitl is the superior offensive player, Matthews is the superior overall player.

Drai is competent in his own end. Matthews was getting killed for 4 years. And his supposed advantage in defense does not make up for the canyon sized difference in their offense.

 

[6ix]

Yes I honestly believe Matthews is worth $11 million. Hell every non Leafs fans on here wanted to see Matthews become an RFA and sign some mega offer sheet from the Coyotes. So they obviously thought Matthews is a great player if they wanted that to happen.

Also with the exception of Matthews only scoring 4 more goals than Draisaitl this past season let's remember these numbers.

In the 2016-17 Matthews outscored him by 11 goals, 40 - 29.

In the 2017-18 season Matthews outscored him by 9 goals, 34 - 25.

So in 3/4 years we have seen Matthews clearly be the better goal scorer and has one season where he was double digits better in goal scoring.

Wow so Matthews has scored more goals than Draisaitl in 3/4 seasons, while Draisaitl was being spoon fed from McDavid.

Could you imagine if Matthews was being fed by McDavid...

 

[Varan]

Yes I honestly believe Matthews is worth $11 million. Hell every non Leafs fans on here wanted to see Matthews become an RFA and sign some mega offer sheet from the Coyotes. So they obviously thought Matthews is a great player if they wanted that to happen.

Also with the exception of Matthews only scoring 4 more goals than Draisaitl this past season let's remember these numbers.

In the 2016-17 Matthews outscored him by 11 goals, 40 - 29.

In the 2017-18 season Matthews outscored him by 9 goals, 34 - 25.

So in 3/4 years we have seen Matthews clearly be the better goal scorer and has one season where he was double digits better in goal scoring.

After the David Ayres debacle, I highly doubt many thought of him doing right by his contract.

I already stated that you shouldn't focus on the past as players can improve

 

[LeafsNation75]

Matthews is not known for his 2-way play. Stop it. He was getting killed since his first year about being lazy in his own end and off the puck.

So why was Matthews tied for 2nd with Mark Stone in the takeaway leaders category?

https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats...sort=7&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0