Matthews vs Draisaitl: Better player to build around

[Minnesnota]

See my reply above. It directly punishes work horses who can play 25 minutes a night and assumes a 15 minute a night guy could keep up that pace. It’s a very flawed stat in my view.

You're objectively wrong.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

You're objectively wrong.

You obviously don’t understand how the stat works. That’s fine. I’ll move on.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

See my reply above. It directly punishes work horses who can play 25 minutes a night and assumes a 15 minute a night guy could keep up that pace. It’s a very flawed stat in my view.

Not hard to understand. Playing harder mins, more mins should does not mean a player is inferior, it is often the case the player is superior. Crosby is 19th in P/60 the last 3 seasons. He is the best all around player in the game bar none. There is a reason why he is 19th in P/60 the last 3 seasons. He plays more, he plays tough mins. He plays all situations. He also knows how to pace himself throughout a season to be 100# ready for the playoffs. Rates are not entirely accurate, they are only a small layer of what a player is.

 

[LeafsNation75]

because it doesn't punish players who play at a high level. Their p/60 numbers are still great. It just doesn't punish/reward players based on one coach's opinion, which is pretty fair. For example, Keefe started playing Matthews 2 minutes more per game once he took over. He didn't magically become a better player overnight, he just got played more

It was about time Keefe played Matthews 2:00 more minutes per game, since his time on ice ended up being 20:58 this past season.

With Mike Babcock Matthews time on ice was 17:38 in 2016-17, 18:08 in 2017-18, and 18:33 in 2018-19.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

So try to explain the 2015-16 season when McDavid was injured for 48 games and Draisaitl only gets 51 points.

Development. Is. Not. Linear.

Also has no bearing who is the better player right now, which is clearly Draisaitl.

It’s cool that Matthews can lead a team from day one, but can’t win a poll.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Draisaitl. I'd be happier with him on my team.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

It's not. They were near the bottom of the league in the first couple months as well.

Merci!
Drais offensive totals are gawdy but theres is a reason for that. I dont mind his lack of defensive play it's just the rest of the team isnt so hot either. Balances out a bit. But defense being so hard to quantify lets offensive players get overrated a bit.

 

[CanadienShark]

So try to explain the 2015-16 season when McDavid was injured for 48 games and Draisaitl only gets 51 points.

What is there to explain? I didn't say he's been a superstar every minute of his time in the NHL. He had some elite stretches, but put it all together a year or two ago.

 

[CanadienShark]

He played 37 games and scored 2 goals and then got sent back to the minors in the only year he played before McDavid was drafted.

So what? I didn't say he was an elite player. He had some good stretches of play.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

What is there to explain? I didn't say he's been a superstar every minute of his time in the NHL. He had some elite stretches, but put it all together a year or two ago.

You really think he had some solid stretches within the 37 games he played where he scored 2 goals and then was sent down by a lottery team? Cause that’s the only sample we have from before where McDavid was drafted, which is the sample that you referenced.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It directly punishes work horses who can play 25 minutes a night and assumes a 15 minute a night guy could keep up that pace.

What 25 minute a night person is being compared to a 15 minute a night person? In the entire history of ice time being recorded, there has been 1 forward to have played 25 minutes per night in a season, and it was over 20 years ago. The only one of these two to have played a season with 15 minutes or less in ice time is Draisaitl.

 

[LeafsNation75]

What is there to explain? I didn't say he's been a superstar every minute of his time in the NHL. He had some elite stretches, but put it all together a year or two ago.

Still no one can argue that Draisaitl struggled that season when McDavid was out of the lineup because of he was injured.

 

[Menzinger]

Does the power play not exist on Matthews’ fans heads? IT’S A PART OF THE GAME!

Matthews gets praise for 5v5, but since he is poor on the PP, it shouldn’t be counted against him. What the hell? Is the game only play 5 on 5?

Another thing I’ve noticed in every goddam Matthews thread is this stupid P/60 stat.

Always be using them stupid P/60 5v5 stats that show absolutely nothing but inflated rates that pumps up the player to look better then he actually is.

What’s next? Matthews 5v5 stats when he wins a draw? His 5v5 stats when he gets a day of rest? When he has to play on a Friday?

Hes not bad at the power play though...

He mostly got significantly less minutes than his peers and the Leafs as a team had some systems issues with it last season.

 

[CanadienShark]

You really think he had some solid stretches within the 37 games he played where he scored 2 goals and then was sent down by a lottery team? Cause that’s the only sample we have from before where McDavid was drafted, which is the sample that you referenced.

Yes. I watched his games. You're far too obsessed with stats.

 

[CanadienShark]

Still no one can argue that Draisaitl struggled that season when McDavid was out of the lineup because of he was injured.

Err... Draisaitl absolutely produced with McDavid out of the lineup this year. That's why he maintained his status as the best player in the world this season.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Hes not bad at the power play though...

He mostly got significantly less minutes than his peers and the Leafs as a team had some systems issues with it last season.

Do I wish Matthews could score more power play goals? Obviously the answer to that is yes. So far during his career he's managed to score 8, 5, 12, and 12 power play goals each season.

However that also means Matthews is one of the best goal scorers at 5v5 when it's hardest to score, because his 5v5 goal totals each year has been 32, 29, 25, and 35 goals.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Does the power play not exist on Matthews’ fans heads? IT’S A PART OF THE GAME!
Matthews gets praise for 5v5, but since he is poor on the PP, it shouldn’t be counted against him. What the hell?

Matthews is not poor on the PP. Quite the opposite. Among forwards since he entered the league (300+ min), he is 5th best at producing PP goals, 7th best at producing primary PP points, and 13th best at producing PP points.

 

[JohnnyBerts]

Matthews is a beast with a great shot. Superstar.

To be honest it’s such a close call that you can’t go wrong. Personally watching a lot of Matthews and having had Draisaitl in my pool so watching almost every Oilers game... I would take Leon. He just looks like he tries harder and wants to win more and that’s the type of player I’d want to build around.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

If your going to complain about that being 5 years ago, I guess you also don't like this response from @JoeThorntonsRooster where he says this.

Good job pointing off the obvious, no I don't like that response from JoeThorontonsRooster either.

Because again (god why do I have to repeat myself) PLAYERS CHANGE. 5 years ago Jokinen was a 60 point player and Benn was the best offensive player in the league over the past 2 seasons. How relevant is that today? Just as relevant as an 18 year old Draisaitl struggling.

Once more Draisaitl today is twice the player he was at 20.

 

[Del Preston]

Still no one can argue that Draisaitl struggled that season when McDavid was out of the lineup because of he was injured.

Draisaitl and McDavid played four minutes together at 5-on-5 in 2015-16. They centered their own lines.

And I wouldn't use 51 points in 72 games as an argument against Draisaitl. He was a 20-year-old kid playing on the 2nd worst team in the league. He took a giant leap from the previous season when he shouldn't have been in the NHL but was forced to be because of inept GMing and coaching by MacTavish and Eakins.

 

[KidLine93]

Matthews outscored Draisaitl with 47 goals this past season.

well using your logic and ignoring draisaitl's 30 point lead on Matthews.....Domink Kubalik outscored tavares and Marner. And costs 10 million less. Please respond.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Can you imagine the leafs' fanbase outrage if another team vehemently declared their guy was better than the leafs player who was significantly more productive. The when the Leafs fan base asks why the other fanbase responds with "better 5v5 p/60".

There would be a meltdown.

But remember, this is also the fan base that once touted Tyler Bozak as a legit #1 center around the league and also said Luke "the human eraser" Schenn was a top shutdown defenceman in the league. So take it with a grain of salt.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Yes. I watched his games. You're far too obsessed with stats.

Alright, if you really want to say that a forward who scored 2 goals in 37 games, and then was sent down to the minors by the team that won the McDavid lottery, had “solid stretches of play” within those 37 games, you do you.

 

[Dache]

Matthews outscored Draisaitl with 47 goals this past season.

So we’re only looking at the 4 extra goals for Matthews but not the 30 extra points from Drai? Man I get you like your team but once ina while take the glasses off.

 

[Dache]

That’s what we thought last year: draisaitl would regress. Whoops.



wow, a four goal difference!

Draisaitl had 30 more points. Why do you leave that out?

Too bad this poll isn’t asking who outscored who by 4 goals

Well yeah. Also I guess that poster would say that Hyman was better than Marner this year I guess.