Matthews vs Draisaitl: Better player to build around

[Dekes For Days]

22-24 is usually the peak of a player's point production.

This is not true, and Matthews is only 22 anyway.

It seems like there isn't going to be much change in his game going forward to suggest such an increase in production

Even if for some weird reason Matthews did not improve from age 22 in ability, his raw production will continue to increase as his opportunities for production become more in line with the opportunities of his peers.

 

[Varan]

Matthews has been consistently improving his ppg each year, and is over a career ppg player at a much younger age than Draisaitl.

Add the fact he’s developing an excellent 2 way game, which is important for a centremen. Something Draisaitl does not seem to take seriously in his game.

This thread is asking who you’d build around. Why would you build around a 1 way player especially at centre. Points mean nothing if you give up more the other way, which is a trend for Draisaitl.

Age doesn't matter when the jump in production for one player is significantly higher than the other.

I already stated why him cheating on defense is an option.

Would Drai give up more points if he were playing on the Leafs in that offense? Or would Matthews do the opposite on the Oilers.

 

[6ix]

+/- is not something to use for an argument because it doesn't take into account the situation of the team. It would work if all things were created equal, but they're not.

Draisaitl and McDavid are the backbone of the offense, so they shoulder the most of the offensive load (and many nights, all of it). If they don't produce, the Oilers get annihilated. So if you play high minutes trying to produce offense as the only viable source, and if that viable source doesn't produce, of course your +/- is going to tank.

Matthews is in a completely different situation. He has a grand canyon of offensive talent around him. That takes off a lot of the pressure off of his shoulders in order to produce offensive. It's easy to play with great players. Everyone is capable of scoring, and the leafs are a high octane offense. That's why his +/- is so great.

How do people not understand this

Imagine Matthews as the sole means of offense on Oilers and put McDavid and Drai on the Leafs. No Matthews fan would touch +/- with a ten-foot pole.

Case closed.

Funny how everyone says the leafs defence sucks and Andersen has had a terrible year, yet Matthews is +19.

It’s a constant trend with Draisaitl being a minus player in 4 of his 6 seasons which is a problem if you’re considered a centreman.

All I hear is how EDM has better defence, and their goaltending was actually better this year. What gives?


This thread isn’t who will put up more points. It’s who you’d build around. No chance I’m building around a one way player like Draisaitl unless he’s coming with McDavid. Matthews ppg production and 2 way play is insane for how young he is. Not many players can step in day one in a high pressure market and excel.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Funny how everyone says the leafs defence sucks and Andersen has had a terrible year, yet Matthews is +19.

It’s a constant trend with Draisaitl being a minus player in 4 of his 6 seasons which is a problem if you’re considered a centreman.

All I hear is how EDM has better defence, and their goaltending was actually better this year. What gives?

The Oilers fans can't seem to accept that Matthews is the better goal scorer and a better defensive player since we clearly see the difference in their +/- stats.

 

[Varan]

This is not true, and Matthews is only 22 anyway.

Even if for some weird reason Matthews did not improve from age 22 in ability, his raw production will continue to increase as his opportunities for production become more in line with the opportunities of his peers.

See Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin. Some are late bloomers, so I'll give you that

Do you believe that his raw production will increase by so much that he will be a legitimate threat for the Ross? His abilities by default have to improve for this to even happen. He won't score 60-70 goals no matter how many more opportunities he gets.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I swear every Matthews fan in this thread has conveniently forgotten this

McDaddy is the best, but 3 great players on a line is better that what Edmonton was putting out there

Sounds like you both need to take a look at who Matthews has actually played with through his career.

 

[Varan]

Funny how everyone says the leafs defence sucks and Andersen has had a terrible year, yet Matthews is +19.

It’s a constant trend with Draisaitl being a minus player in 4 of his 6 seasons which is a problem if you’re considered a centreman.

All I hear is how EDM has better defence, and their goaltending was actually better this year. What gives?

You cannot just dismiss their offense. It more than makes up for their horrid defense.

McDavid could easily be a minus player for more than half of his seasons. Doesn't prove anything

EDM has had shaky defense and goaltending since Taylor Hall's draft. Try again

 

[Varan]

Sounds like you both need to take a look at who Matthews has actually played with through his career.

a team >>> a line

Ask Caps fans that going up against the Pens since 2009. I can attest to this because I am one.

 

[Aladyyn]

You cannot just dismiss their offense. It more than makes up for their horrid defense.

McDavid could easily be a minus player for more than half of his seasons. Doesn't prove anything

EDM has had shaky defense and goaltending since Taylor Hall's draft. Try again

Edmonton has a good defense when Draisaitl/McDavid aren't on the ice. They're the problem.

 

[Varan]

Edmonton has a good defense when Draisaitl/McDavid aren't on the ice. They're the problem.

Are you suggesting that they will go further w/o those two because they're minus players?

 

[6ix]

The Oilers fans can't seem to accept that Matthews is the better goal scorer and a better defensive player since we clearly see the difference in their +/- stats.

Exactly. Matthews is an elite goal scorer, over career ppg at 22 and has a great 2 way game for how young he is.

Why on earth would you build around Draisaitl simply because he had more points but is a liability defensively.


And I’m not saying +/- stat means everything, but when there’s a trend and track record of Draisaitl being a minus player in 4 of 6 seasons that’s enough evidence.

 

[Aladyyn]

Are you suggesting that they will go further w/o those two because they're minus players?

No, I am simply stating facts.

 

[Varan]

No, I am simply stating facts.

What is a fact, that you keep ignoring, is that those 2 are the sole means of offense.

Why on earth would you have them exerting energy on defense? No offense from them is almost a 100% loss for the Oilers.

 

[6ix]

You cannot just dismiss their offense. It more than makes up for their horrid defense.

McDavid could easily be a minus player for more than half of his seasons. Doesn't prove anything

EDM has had shaky defense and goaltending since Taylor Hall's draft. Try again

bud if you’re from Toronto you would know the leafs D has been just as bad, if not worse. Their goaltending has been garbage until Andersen, but he was brutal this year too. I think you’re the one that needs to “try again”...

 

[Varan]

bud if you’re from Toronto you would know the leafs D has been just as bad, if not worse. Their goaltending has been garbage until Andersen, but he was brutal this year too. I think you’re the one that needs to “try again”...

Anderson has had a down year. One can attest that to injuries, a decline in play, defense, whatever. But it is better than the Oilers.

Leafs have had injuries galore this entire season to their D core. They were practically an infirmary.

Try again

 

[LeafsNation75]

bud if you’re from Toronto you would know the leafs D has been just as bad, if not worse. Their goaltending has been garbage until Andersen, but he was brutal this year too. I think you’re the one that needs to “try again”...

This past season the Leafs defense also looked bad this past season because of all their injuries to Reilly, Muzzin, Dermott, and Ceci.

 

[Varan]

The Oilers fans can't seem to accept that Matthews is the better goal scorer and a better defensive player since we clearly see the difference in their +/- stats.

Uh who hasn't accepted it?

+/- is useless

 

[LeafsNation75]

Uh who hasn't accepted it?

+/- is useless

Earlier when I mentioned how Matthews has scored more goals every season than Draisaitl with the exception of the 2018-19 season, I was told other reasons what made Draisaitl the better player. In my opinion that tells me the Oilers fans hate it when Matthews happens to have better numbers in a specific category if it's not one of their players.

 

[6ix]

Uh who hasn't accepted it?

+/- is useless

Lol, sure it is.

Try agai.... err nvm. Just stop and quit while you’re behind lol.

And as you stated the leafs had AHL defence with their injuries, but Matthews still a +19. Because he actually plays a 2 way game instead of cheating for offense.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

1) what relevance does that have?

2) I don't think Eichel is top 10 at his position

Kane has out performed Eichel the last 2 years.

That's how that's relevant.

 

[Varan]

Earlier when I mentioned how Matthews has scored more goals every season than Draisaitl with the exception of the 2018-19 season, I was told other reasons what made Draisaitl the better player. In my opinion that tells me the Oilers fans hate it when Matthews happens to have better numbers in a specific category if it's not one of their players.

Goal-scoring doesn't make you the better player. As an Ovechkin fan, this has been the case against Crosby basically since 2010. Literally go to any Crosby v OV thread and many will point out that being the best goal-scorer =/= best player.

Regarding the second bolded, Oilers fans don't hate it. It's just that when you try to put that specific category on a pedestal over everything else, is what makes them hate it.

 

[Aladyyn]

What is a fact, that you keep ignoring, is that those 2 are the sole means of offense.

Why on earth would you have them exerting energy on defense? No offense from them is almost a 100% loss for the Oilers.

That's just a worthless hypothetical lmao. It's not like they're exactly destroying teams out there playing the way they do.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Lol, sure it is.

Try agai.... err nvm. Just stop and quit while you’re behind lol.

And as you stated the leafs had AHL defence with their injuries, but Matthews still a +19. Because he actually plays a 2 way game instead of cheating for offense.

You actually think plus minus is a useful stat?

 

[Aladyyn]

Kane has out performed Eichel the last 2 years.

That's how that's relevant.

By what metrics?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Funny how everyone says the leafs defence sucks and Andersen has had a terrible year, yet Matthews is +19.

It’s a constant trend with Draisaitl being a minus player in 4 of his 6 seasons which is a problem if you’re considered a centreman.

All I hear is how EDM has better defence, and their goaltending was actually better this year. What gives?


This thread isn’t who will put up more points. It’s who you’d build around. No chance I’m building around a one way player like Draisaitl unless he’s coming with McDavid. Matthews ppg production and 2 way play is insane for how young he is. Not many players can step in day one in a high pressure market and excel.

What about if Draisaitl comes with RNH and Yammamoto?

Check out his +- since being swapped to those two.

If anything you would want them instead of McDavid, best line in hockey since being put together