Dreger: Matt Duchene Mega-thread:Habs, NSH, NYI, OTT inquired - Part III

[islesfan3913]

If that Ott package is the best one on the table then the Avs should absolutely just hold onto Duchene until something else comes up. They have 2 years and there is no rush. That deal screams Seguin 2.0

I was thinking about is being similar to Seguin as well. I could see Duchene becoming an annual 60-70 point player with elite defensive ability after a move. The problem is, a team trading for him has to believe that in order to give up what the Avs are asking for.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

You actually know of Beaudin? Wow.

But no.

I follow prospects quite a bit, all teams.

For instense, Mironov is one of Colorado's most underrated prospects.

Beaudin is quite underrated as well.

---

Why no?

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Sergachev + McCarron + 2018 1st

Come on Montreal, you're desperate.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

I was thinking about is being similar to Seguin as well. I could see Duchene becoming an annual 60-70 point player with elite defensive ability after a move. The problem is, a team trading for him has to believe that in order to give up what the Avs are asking for.

..and have the assets the Avs want, and have the cap space, etc..

That's why it is so hard to get those amazing returns on "Star" players like teams, theoretically "should".

Ottawa got ****ed on the Spezza trade for some of the same reasons. Limited market. You get what you can, and you move on.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

..and have the assets the Avs want, and have the cap space, etc..

That's why it is so hard to get those amazing returns on "Star" players like teams, theoretically "should".

Ottawa got ****ed on the Spezza trade for some of the same reasons. Limited market. You get what you can, and you move on.

Spezza asked to be traded... one dumb trade doesn't justify another.

 

[Foppberg]

I follow prospects quite a bit, all teams.

For instense, Mironov is one of Colorado's most underrated prospects.

Beaudin is quite underrated as well.

---

Why no?

... You need to be silenced. Revealing all our favourite secret prospects like that.

Not a fan of adding to Duchene, and not getting back Chabot. Rather deal just Duchene for a package like White + 1st + Ceci than add Beaudin and Dzingel.

 

[Goulet17]

I was thinking about is being similar to Seguin as well. I could see Duchene becoming an annual 60-70 point player with elite defensive ability after a move. The problem is, a team trading for him has to believe that in order to give up what the Avs are asking for.

Jason Spezza was 31 years old when the Sens traded him, and he only had one contract year left until UFA status. The one year he had left came with a $7 M AAV cap hit. Spezza also had been battling injuries including back issues.

I don't believe that is a great comparable.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Spezza asked to be traded... one dumb trade doesn't justify another.

Once he did, the limited market due to his trade list, his age, his injury history, his current play, his contract, the pieces Ottawa was looking for, etc.. all factored into a sub-standard return.

Colorado will obviously get significantly more for Duchene, but his current play, the Avs struggles, his contract, the pieces Col is looking for, etc.. will all factor into the return they will get.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Spezza asked to be traded... one dumb trade doesn't justify another.

Certainly not Ottawa's fault. Spezza wanted out, had a no trade clause, vetoed the best trade we had on the table - which sucks - we were handcuffed.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Once he did, the limited market due to his trade list, his age, his injury history, his current play, his contract, the pieces Ottawa was looking for, etc.. all factored into a sub-standard return.

Colorado will obviously get significantly more for Duchene, but his current play, the Avs struggles, his contract, the pieces Col is looking for, etc.. will all factor into the return they will get.

His current play is fine all things considered.

SIGNIFICANTLY. The struggles of other teams as well. From where I sit the pressure is on the Habs,Sens and Bruins. The avs are sitting pretty dead last this year. It's the rest of the league fighting for the playoffs.

Certainly not Ottawa's fault. Spezza wanted out, had a no trade clause, vetoed the best trade we had on the table - which sucks - we were handcuffed.

I wasn't the one who brought it up...just showing how ridiculous the comparison is.

 

[Altimus]

This just feels like an ottawa trade. Lazar, Ceci and a first I'm okay with its just what prospect seals the deal.

 

[Meeqs]

I was thinking about is being similar to Seguin as well. I could see Duchene becoming an annual 60-70 point player with elite defensive ability after a move. The problem is, a team trading for him has to believe that in order to give up what the Avs are asking for.

He is that player now, its not really about believing, being on awful teams holds players down.

For an example Nick Holden is the exact same player now as he was a year ago when he was moved for a 4th, he is just surrounded by more talent. Too many fans have a trouble separating the player from the environment. Which is why teams have guys who its their entire job to look for that.

If a team gets Duchene, it'll be a lot like when MTL got Petry. They will give up some good pieces but a few years later people will be talking about how the Avs ever gave him up.

 

[Meeqs]

Sergachev + McCarron + 2018 1st

Come on Montreal, you're desperate.

I'll bet you if Mtl will trade a 2nd and a meh prospect for Hanzal, and be out of the playoffs by the 2nd round.

The front office will decide to run Galchenyuk out of town and move him and Serg for Duchene + Grigs.

Just wait y'all

 

[stempniaksen]

... You need to be silenced. Revealing all our favourite secret prospects like that.

Not a fan of adding to Duchene, and not getting back Chabot. Rather deal just Duchene for a package like White + 1st + Ceci than add Beaudin and Dzingel.

Dzingel is better than Beaudin, so that definitely works from a Sens persoective (need to go out and find a RD somewhere, but when you get the opportunity to add Duchene for secondary pieces you do it)

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Dzingel is better than Beaudin, so that definitely works from a Sens persoective (need to go out and find a RD somewhere, but when you get the opportunity to add Duchene for secondary pieces you do it)

Dzingel would also be the odd man out for the expansion draft so I could see him go the other way.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Dzingel would also be the odd man out for the expansion draft so I could see him go the other way.

There's still value to keeping Dzingel and losing him in expanson.

1) Sens become worse for the playoffs by losing Dzingel.
2) Sens have to lose SOMEBODY in expansion. By not trading Dzingel at the deadline we keep Wideman who'd be the next best pick for Vegas in this scenario where Ceci is shipped out ofr Duchene and OTT protects Meth/Phaneuf/Karl.
3) We can still make a side deal in an attempt to keep Dzingel. Whether true or not, Bruce Garrioch keeps pushing the idea that Vegas really likes Wideman. If that is true, the cost of a side deal to protect Dzingel might not be all that high if Vegas doesn't consider the difference between Wideman and Dzingel that great.

 

[JZCislesHockey]

Islanders offer Hamonic+Strome+First for Duchene

 

[Meeqs]

Islanders offer Hamonic+Strome+First for Duchene

Swap Barzal for Strome and you'd probably have a deal (given the rumored ask from a few months ago).

Plus its not like you can out wait Sakic, given he's in no rush

 

[Sun God Nika]

Hoffman - Turris - Stone
Dzingel - Brassard - Duchene
Smith - Pageau - Ryan


Just make it happen...

 

[tucker3434]

A lot of sens fans are down on Ceci, but I can't see the team moving him. Ottawa has no RD depth to replace him and would only be acquiring Duchene because they want to win now.

I also can't see Ottawa giving up both White and Chabot, but then again, I don't see any way this trade could go down with both teams (and their fans) being happy.

Sakic has little motivation to move Duchene now without over payment, so I don't blame him for asking for a lot, but I just don't see Ottawa mortgaging the future for him.

Chabot then! He'd fit us better anyway.

I'd be ok with it if we didn't get White too. I'm much more interested in getting the first piece right rather than the second, third, or whatever.

And I have no idea what Sakic's ask is, but every time we hear, "team x needs to be willing to move player y for this to happen," it's somebody that doesn't really make sense as the centerpiece of a Duchene deal, like White or Galchenyuk. If those guys are the secondary pieces, I wouldnt mind if sakic eased up a bit if it meant getting a Chabot or Sergachev.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Chabot then! He'd fit us better anyway.

I'd be ok with it if we didn't get White too. I'm much more interested in getting the first piece right rather than the second, third, or whatever.

And I have no idea what Sakic's ask is, but every time we hear, "team x needs to be willing to move player y for this to happen," it's somebody that doesn't really make sense as the centerpiece of a Duchene deal, like White or Galchenyuk. If those guys are the secondary pieces, I wouldnt mind if sakic eased up a bit if it meant getting a Chabot or Sergachev.

Sakic's high demand has turned a lot of teams away... Read this article

http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/02/13...scenario-wouldnt-make-sense-for-ottawa-dorion

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'll bet you if Mtl will trade a 2nd and a meh prospect for Hanzal, and be out of the playoffs by the 2nd round.

The front office will decide to run Galchenyuk out of town and move him and Serg for Duchene + Grigs.

Just wait y'all

Habs will try to acquire pending UFA rentals at the right price that does not hurt them long term. That is true. However, MB is not going to mortgage the future by adding one piece when the Habs are a few pieces away from being true contenders. And the Galchenyuk rumors are created by media and some frustrated fans (and there are many). MB is not going to run Galchenyuk out of town

Desperation moves = No Cup = a very long re-build.

 

[Iracundia]

Sakic's high demand has turned a lot of teams away... Read this article

http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/02/13...scenario-wouldnt-make-sense-for-ottawa-dorion

Old news

 

[Habs Halifax]

Old news

Old news that hasn't changed. So why keep asking for Chabot and Sergachev? I get that's the asking price for Duchene but the Habs and Sens (and others) are just going to wait and wait... then Duchene's value gets less and less as he moves closer to UFA.

 

[Bender]

Old news that hasn't changed. So why keep asking for Chabot and Sergachev? I get that's the asking price for Duchene but the Habs and Sens (and others) are just going to wait and wait... then Duchene's value gets less and less as he moves closer to UFA .

Lol...there is no difference to the Avs if Duchene is moved before next Wednesday or at the draft. Duchene will still have 2 years left after this season...the only people panicking about him being 'close' to UFA status are fans like you. Duchene is no mercenary...that's not the type of guy he is. He's always been fairly easy to negotiate with and has signed fair deals for him and the team.

At the draft...there's a better chance that more teams will be interested. Some teams will have had disappointing playoff finishes and may decide that they need to make some players available that are currently too important to their playoff run.

Sakic and the Avs know this...that's why they're not likely to come down from their asking price unless another GM gets desperate and actually makes an offer to meet it. Otherwise, we will sit tight and concentrate on moving our expiring contracts + perhaps a few others.