Dreger: Matt Duchene Mega-thread:Habs, NSH, NYI, OTT inquired - Part III

[returnofthemack29]

Barzal isn't untouchable according to Avs fans, if we don't start with him and add 2-3 additional high-value assets as well they've decided we're not even allowed to propose our lowball offers.

Dude it's not Avs fans, it's Bob freaking McKenzie! He's not some Eklund wannabe (Murphy,Galluf). He said that's the asking price. But yeah whining about us being unreasonable is going to change it.

“If it’s three high-end pieces, we’re talking about a player that’s established in the NHL already – between 20-24 years of age – as well as a first-round pick, as well as a top prospect.

“If the young NHL player isn’t established, if it’s all prospects, then the price goes up to those four high-end pieces.€

 

[Foppberg]

Adrian Dater‏Verified account @adater 2h2 hours ago
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Hearing that once-heavy Avs-Isles trade talks for Duchene have cooled. Sakic may have to wait til draft

Thank god

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Hes probably more a good #3. But problem with him is that hes older than were looking for. The main pieces we are definately rebuilding with all will be 22 and under next year. Also not that i agree with arguement but there are some isles posters that dont wanna pay because he will be your #2 center so that goes both ways. Hamonic wont play above ej so he would be second pairing for us

Logic! Reasoning! Non-argumentative thoughts written without vitriol!

You sir, are not welcome here. Please leave the thread.

 

[The Abusement Park]

You're under the assumption that several other teams are eager and desperate to pay a defenseman with top pairing potential for Duchene, so the Islanders need to catch up to these mystery offers or else fall out of the race entirely.

What if no other team in the NHL is coming close to Sakic's asking price? The Islanders are the only team in the ballpark of an acceptable return, which is why there's so much chatter about the Isles/Avs hammering out a deal? What if those top pairing potential players that you assume are available simply aren't?

"We'll just keep Duchene then" - you have that option, totally. But I'm not seeing rumors of top pairing potential defenseman being offering as the start of a Duchene package, are you?

No. But we shouldn't make a trade to make a trade. Hamonic is a great defenseman don't get me wrong, but he plays Rd so he'd be 2nd or 3rd pairing for us and is a little old if we reset the age of our core. I just don't think giving up Duchene would be smart if the biggest piece we get is a RD who wouldn't be a top pairing guy or have the potential to be.

 

[DriftEasy]

Is it:

1) a 20-24 year old top pairing defenseman;
2) 20-24 year old defenseman with top pair potential that the Avs want; or
3) 20-24 year old defensemen who's shown something at NHL level with top-pair potential?

that the Avs want?

Because I wouldn't trade (1) for Duchene straight up, let alone add a 1st + top prospect. And, while I would trade (3) straight up for Duchene, I'm not certain I'd add an awful lot to it tbh.

 

[Pacman33]

Is it:

1) a 20-24 year old top pairing defenseman;
2) 20-24 year old defenseman with top pair potential that the Avs want; or
3) 20-24 year old defensemen who's shown something at NHL level with top-pair potential?

that the Avs want?

Because I wouldn't trade (1) for Duchene straight up, let alone add a 1st + top prospect. And, while I would trade (3) straight up for Duchene, I'm not certain I'd add an awful lot to it tbh.

Its 2 and 3. If someone that age was already top pairing then they wouldnt be traded. If main piece is a dman than think hanifin, chabot, sergachev and mcavoy

 

[CodeE]

Because maybe a team like CBJ is willing to give a guy like Murray+. That at least fits the need even if Murray isn't as good as Hamonic.

That's yet another speculative messageboard offer.

You guys act like Carolina has offered Hanifin, Montreal has offered Serg, Ottawa has offered Chabot, Boston has offered McAvoy, and Sakic's smoking a cigar in his GM office reviewing game tape to see what defenseman he thinks will have the best career. Then dopey old Garth Snow comes a callin, oh he wants Duchene too? Well let's make sure to set the price astronomically high to beat all these other amazing deals that are absolutely on the table.

Then of course there's no way a Hamonic+Barzal+1st offer could interest any other team into giving up a center as good as Duchene. Or maybe just Hamonic straight across for a center. Nope, 28 other stores are closed my friend and Colorado is the only place to shop.

No. But we shouldn't make a trade to make a trade. Hamonic is a great defenseman don't get me wrong, but he plays Rd so he'd be 2nd or 3rd pairing for us and is a little old if we reset the age of our core. I just don't think giving up Duchene would be smart if the biggest piece we get is a RD who wouldn't be a top pairing guy or have the potential to be.

Then take Pulock instead of Hamonic, he's younger and fits the rebuild better. Or say he's not good enough because he's not come close to the Hanifin, Serg, Chabot, McAvoy offers that we'll assume the other teams have made.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Is it:

1) a 20-24 year old top pairing defenseman;
2) 20-24 year old defenseman with top pair potential that the Avs want; or
3) 20-24 year old defensemen who's shown something at NHL level with top-pair potential?

that the Avs want?

Because I wouldn't trade (1) for Duchene straight up, let alone add a 1st + top prospect. And, while I would trade (3) straight up for Duchene, I'm not certain I'd add an awful lot to it tbh.

It's 2 and 3. The adds are all dependant on who we get back really.

 

[JoemAvs]

Is it:

1) a 20-24 year old top pairing defenseman;
2) 20-24 year old defenseman with top pair potential that the Avs want; or
3) 20-24 year old defensemen who's shown something at NHL level with top-pair potential?

that the Avs want?

Because I wouldn't trade (1) for Duchene straight up, let alone add a 1st + top prospect. And, while I would trade (3) straight up for Duchene, I'm not certain I'd add an awful lot to it tbh.

The Avs are not going to get a 20-24 year old NHL top pairing D in return. We are smart enough to realize that. The only one that might have fit the bill is Faulk and he is not going to get traded.

What we want however is a guy that has a good chance of turning into a legit top pairing caliber guy. Not a guy that might have a chance if everything goes well. We want a guy that is a decent bet to turn into one. Guys like Sergachev/Chychrun/McAvoy/Chabot/Hanifin/etc would obviously be the guys we would target.

Depending on how much risk is involved with the individual prospect and how close they are to the NHL, we would want picks and prospects added to mitigate the risk.

So I personally would do Hanifin + 2nd for Duchene. Probably even straight up but Hanifin is not having a good season so I think a 2nd is not too much to ask.

I would want a 1st + good prospect + Sergachev from MTL because he is more of a long shot....



If we can't get one of those, I would want overpayment in a package deal return and a lesser D prospect like Fabbro would have to be involved or a lesser NHL Dman like Murray (with a heavy + added).

We will see what happens but I really don't think Duchene should move otherwise.

The Isles simply would have to extremely overpay IMO for me to consider it because you simply do not have anyone that would fit that bill. That makes a trade very difficult.

And if we believe Dreger it is also one of the main obstacles and reasons why this won't happen...

 

[TheTwelfth]

I don't know if this is realistic, or if it fits cap-wise, but...

Fleury to Carolina for Lack, 2017 2nd, some prospect.

[...]

Carolina 2017 2nd, Pittsburgh 2017 2nd, Derrick Pouliot, Conor Sheary, Chris Kunitz, and one of Jarry or Gustavsson to Colorado for Duchene.

Pens fan here, I think that is way too much scraps for Colorado. I imagine a trade has to center around Maatta/Dumoulin + Sprong/Guentzel.


Duchene is also at 6M AAV, so there is no need to move both Kunitz and Fleury to make room. I think it is very unlikely Carolina would want to trade for Fleury before the TDL, a summer trade is much more realistic.

Without a Carolina trade in play, I can imagine:

Maatta, Guentzel, 1st 2017, 3rd cond 2018 for Duchene and Gelinas/Wiercioch.

Tristan Jarry would also be available if Colorado retains some salary.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Then take Pulock instead of Hamonic, he's younger and fits the rebuild better. Or say he's not good enough because he's not come close to the Hanifin, Serg, Chabot, McAvoy offers that we'll assume the other teams have made.

I don't know much about Pulock tbf, but from what it sounds like he's very similar to Barrie. And that wouldn't make sense to add another defender that's more offensive minded than defensively minded.

 

[Ivan13]

Pens fan here, I think that is way too much scraps for Colorado. I imagine a trade has to center around Maatta/Dumoulin + Sprong/Guentzel.


Duchene is also at 6M AAV, so there is no need to move both Kunitz and Fleury to make room. I think it is very unlikely Carolina would want to trade for Fleury before the TDL, a summer trade is much more realistic.

Without a Carolina trade in play, I can imagine:

Maatta, Guentzel, 1st 2017, 3rd cond 2018 for Duchene and Gelinas/Wiercioch.

Tristan Jarry would also be available if Colorado retains some salary.

You're too kind, we'll trade a 1st line center for your perma-injured #4 D.

 

[SpezDispenser]

All other teams F off and let Ottawa have him.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

The Avs are not going to get a 20-24 year old NHL top pairing D in return. We are smart enough to realize that. The only one that might have fit the bill is Faulk and he is not going to get traded.

What we want however is a guy that has a good chance of turning into a legit top pairing caliber guy. Not a guy that might have a chance if everything goes well. We want a guy that is a decent bet to turn into one. Guys like Sergachev/Chychrun/McAvoy/Chabot/Hanifin/etc would obviously be the guys we would target.

Depending on how much risk is involved with the individual prospect and how close they are to the NHL, we would want picks and prospects added to mitigate the risk.

So I personally would do Hanifin + 2nd for Duchene. Probably even straight up but Hanifin is not having a good season so I think a 2nd is not too much to ask.

I would want a 1st + good prospect + Sergachev from MTL because he is more of a long shot....



If we can't get one of those, I would want overpayment in a package deal return and a lesser D prospect like Fabbro would have to be involved or a lesser NHL Dman like Murray (with a heavy + added).

We will see what happens but I really don't think Duchene should move otherwise.

The Isles simply would have to extremely overpay IMO for me to consider it because you simply do not have anyone that would fit that bill. That makes a trade very difficult.

And if we believe Dreger it is also one of the main obstacles and reasons why this won't happen...

I think we can safely say Montreal is no longer in this race.

 

[DriftEasy]

The Isles simply would have to extremely overpay IMO for me to consider it because you simply do not have anyone that would fit that bill. That makes a trade very difficult.

So Pulock doesn't come close to fitting that? Interesting.

 

[g00n]

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