Management dysfunction - The mess Katz made

[ThePhoenixx]

And pretty much negated it by letting Maroon walk due to the Looch contract.

Maroon was traded because the Oilers were out of a playoff spot and he was an UFA.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Maroon was traded because the Oilers were out of a playoff spot and he was an UFA.

If we didn’t have Looch, there’s not a doubt in my mind he would’ve been resigned.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

If we didn’t have Looch, there’s not a doubt in my mind he would’ve been resigned.

He may still be signed.

 

[JetsOilersfan]

He may still be signed.

No he won't - because of what was already stated. He is what Looch should have been (only Looch is meaner and a lot more feared). You can't have both Maroon and Lucic on the same team. What would be the ideal scenario is we drop Lucic somehow and sign Neal as a UFA (he'd be great on McDavid's left side) and then you can sign Maroon to play in your bottom six and PP net front presence for 2.5M a year or so (that's all he's worth no more as he proved in moving over to New Jersey with his 3 goals in 17 games).

But Looch isn't going anywhere. What I don't understand still is these massive overpaid contracts that PC hands out WITH a NTC or NMC. Really? WTF. When you overpay a player, you DON'T give them a NT or NMC contract. You only do that if they are taking less to stay with you. To me that's the #1 sign of incompetence. You'd think as a lawyer by trade (including spending time at Harvard) that PC would be a better negotiator - but he's not. Seems to me like he lets the player agents do all the work to write up a contract and PC just signs it instead of the other way around. I'm still flabbergasted for the 4.5 he gave Russell for 4 years when a year and a half ago no NHL team was even interested in offering him a contract.

Yeah - my only advice. Watch a real hockey team and 1st class run organisation. Watch and follow the Jets - GO JETS GO

 

[Raoul Duke]

He may still be signed.

Yep. That’s totally fair.

 

[CupofOil]

Well lets summarize a bit then. The Major moves in the Chia timeframe have been Hall-Larsson, Eberle-Strome, Lucic, Sekera additions. These are the major player changes during his tenure and ALL bear Chia's stamp. These are Chia type deals and nobody even doubts it. You mention one move with conjecture that it was OBC which we don't even know and that somehow offsets that Chia, himself, has radically altered the ship and is solely responsible for the very worst deals/hires?

I disliked the OBC as much as anybody. But I don't harbor vague notions they are pulling strings when they've all been replaced in the hierarchy.

As I said before, I'm not absolving Chia of blame and he deserves to be fired but I will stand by my opinion (which I feel very strongly about) that the Reinhart trade had the OBC's fingerprints all over it and that there is a current power struggle going on.

What am I basing it on? The last decade of OBC influence and country club atmosphere that still exists, I don't trust these guys for one second when they say that Lowe and co. aren't involved in hockey ops. These guys will never ever get the benefit of the doubt from me as long as Katz is owner.

 

[belair]

As I said before, I'm not absolving Chia of blame and he deserves to be fired but I will stand by my opinion (which I feel very strongly about) that the Reinhart trade had the OBC's fingerprints all over it and that there is a current power struggle going on.

What am I basing it on? The last decade of OBC influence and country club atmosphere that still exists, I don't trust these guys for one second when they say that Lowe and co. aren't involved in hockey ops. These guys will never ever get the benefit of the doubt from me as long as Katz is owner.

Without question. Anyone who says otherwise just isn't being realistic. That deal was signed, sealed, delivered months before the draft lottery. That doesn't absolve anyone of blame, including me who was optimistic we could turn Griffin Reinhart into something he hasn't become up until the weekend we lost him. But it's curious as to why a couple of guys who sewered this franchise over the course of a decade are still sitting at the boardroom table feeding this organization their ideas.

 

[CupofOil]

Without question. Anyone who says otherwise just isn't being realistic. That deal was signed, sealed, delivered months before the draft lottery. That doesn't absolve anyone of blame, including me who was optimistic we could turn Griffin Reinhart into something he hasn't become up until the weekend we lost him. But it's curious as to why a couple of guys who sewered this franchise over the course of a decade are still sitting at the boardroom table feeding this organization their ideas.

Because they are egomaniacs.

 

[Drivesaitl]

As I said before, I'm not absolving Chia of blame and he deserves to be fired but I will stand by my opinion (which I feel very strongly about) that the Reinhart trade had the OBC's fingerprints all over it and that there is a current power struggle going on.

What am I basing it on? The last decade of OBC influence and country club atmosphere that still exists, I don't trust these guys for one second when they say that Lowe and co. aren't involved in hockey ops. These guys will never ever get the benefit of the doubt from me as long as Katz is owner.

The Reinhart move, if one looks at the timeframe, was in the period of transition and so not surprising that it could have had transitional influence. That's not atypical when orgs move from one management team to another and afairc Chia even alleged that the priors had some *intelligence* haha, on Reinhart.

But what I'm disputing is that the notion of something that occurred at the start of Chia's tenure is reason to believe that its impacted his entire 3 year stint. As has been oft mentioned the Oilers likely weren't going to make the right pick in that draft anyway. To me that's even another reason to suspect Chia's own judgement.

All I meant to counter with, and I think its fair, is that the major deals and additions in Chia's time frame smell of elderberries.. Not of OBC, that's a different stink altogether.

 

[belair]

Because they are egomaniacs.

I'm not talking about their wishes per se. More why someone in a higher command would prefer to keep the malignant tumor attached to the body. Just give them a private box at Rogers Place and give them an open bar tab. Keep them away from any level of responsibility.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Without question. Anyone who says otherwise just isn't being realistic. That deal was signed, sealed, delivered months before the draft lottery. That doesn't absolve anyone of blame, including me who was optimistic we could turn Griffin Reinhart into something he hasn't become up until the weekend we lost him. But it's curious as to why a couple of guys who sewered this franchise over the course of a decade are still sitting at the boardroom table feeding this organization their ideas.

Nobody disputed the Reinhart deal being influenced. I dispute it being significant in that Chia wasn't, even if he had the pick, according to statements, going to pick who we wanted anyway.

With that said its quite clear how Chia's major moves and signings have adversely impacted the club virtually beyond recognition.

 

[belair]

Nobody disputed the Reinhart deal being influenced. I dispute it being significant in that Chia wasn't, even if he had the pick, according to statements, going to pick who we wanted anyway.

With that said its quite clear how Chia's major moves and signings have adversely impacted the club virtually beyond recognition.

I don't think you can really nail that down one way or the other, which is why I prefer not to dispute it. It was a trade that further set the path for us to have to make difficult decisions to fill the needs of this franchise. Regardless of who would've been picked, it was two wasted prospects in a time we needed prospects more than anyone in the league.

 

[Cloned]

It actually would be the most Oiler-thing Oiler fans could do now. Blame guys that aren't probably even really doing anything and focus on them while giving a pass the people actually currently in charge.

Then 2-3 years from now realize how much damage has been done and then retroactively finally realize who should've been blamed.

There's a New Boys Club forming -- Chiarelli + McLellan + Woodcroft from the looks of things with Bobby Burgers making cameo appearances.

I said it before in this thread and I'll say it again:

There are only villains here. No heroes.

Everyone bears some fault and no alternative from the current people in charge/associated with the executive is a good one. It's a Sophie's Choice.

 

[CupofOil]

The Reinhart move, if one looks at the timeframe, was in the period of transition and so not surprising that it could have had transitional influence. That's not atypical when orgs move from one management team to another and afairc Chia even alleged that the priors had some *intelligence* haha, on Reinhart.

But what I'm disputing is that the notion of something that occurred at the start of Chia's tenure is reason to believe that its impacted his entire 3 year stint. As has been oft mentioned the Oilers likely weren't going to make the right pick in that draft anyway. To me that's even another reason to suspect Chia's own judgement.

All I meant to counter with, and I think its fair, is that the major deals and additions in Chia's time frame smell of elderberries.. Not of OBC, that's a different stink altogether.

Don't get me wrong, I fully blame Chia for everything that has transpired but IMO, there's absolutely no way the OBC hasn't had a voice in the room when the major decisions were made. Their egos won't allow them to stay quiet and just simply be figureheads and by OBC I mean Lowe mostly, it's been pretty widely known that MacT still plays a big part of the decision making process.
The whole thing is a mess really but I'm not surprised by any of it. As I've always said, the main problem in all of this is Katz.

 

[CupofOil]

I'm not talking about their wishes per se. More why someone in a higher command would prefer to keep the malignant tumor attached to the body. Just give them a private box at Rogers Place and give them an open bar tab. Keep them away from any level of responsibility.

Egos man, egos. I'm sure theoriginal plan was to give Nicholson and Chia full autonomy but these guys can't help themselves, it's not Nicholson and Chia's Oilers, it's Katz and buddies' Oilers. Of course I could be wrong because it's all speculation but I'm not wrong.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

It's a Sophie's Choice.

It's like a reverse Sophie's Choice. If you had to, which one would you NOT fire? That's a lot harder IMO.

 

[rboomercat90]

If we didn’t have Looch, there’s not a doubt in my mind he would’ve been resigned.

The stupidest thing Chiarelli could have done with Maroon was offering him a long term deal last season. It was impossible to determine what his real worth was when the only time he had success was playing with McDavid. Let him hit the market to see what his worth is and go from there. Maroon liked it here so there’s still a chance he’d come back with a competitive offer. He wasn’t signing for a discount anyway so let the market determine what that offer should be.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The stupidest thing Chiarelli could have done with Maroon was offering him a long term deal last season. It was impossible to determine what his real worth was when the only time he had success was playing with McDavid. Let him hit the market to see what his worth is and go from there. Maroon liked it here so there’s still a chance he’d come back with a competitive offer. He wasn’t signing for a discount anyway so let the market determine what that offer should be.

The stupidest thing Chia ever did with Maroon is to sign Lucic. I stated exactly this at the time, because it meant that the Oilers would be getting a redundant player, a more expensive player, and a less effective player, and that it spelled the eventual end of Maroon here.

The very clear thing is that Maroon has been worth more than Lucic, to the Oilers, while being a bargain at any price, relative to him. The Maroon acquisition was a solid move. The Lucic contract was complete garbage for a vastly overrated player.

 

[McFlash97]

Maroon has been downright solid in Jersey.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

I think the Maroon train has come and gone. Jersey is perfect for him because it's closer to his son and they have the cap to throw a long-term deal at him. Doesn't hurt he fits their group like a glove.

So sure, Chia gets credit for trading for him. It's just too bad he only put the Oilers in a position to benefit from it for one season.

 

[Raoul Duke]

The stupidest thing Chiarelli could have done with Maroon was offering him a long term deal last season. It was impossible to determine what his real worth was when the only time he had success was playing with McDavid. Let him hit the market to see what his worth is and go from there. Maroon liked it here so there’s still a chance he’d come back with a competitive offer. He wasn’t signing for a discount anyway so let the market determine what that offer should be.

Sure, but the reason they can’t pay Maroon is Lucic.
Way off topic though,

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

Maroon has been downright solid in Jersey.

He’s just riding McDa... halls coattails, he obviously doesn’t belong in the NHL without Mcdavi... I mean Hall!

 

[bucktown]

The "Red Wine Summit" becoming a public issue is the most telling thing that's happened this season. I read more into publication with that as a topic than anything that has come out of a coach/gm/poho press conference.

It shows a level of disconnect from the causal fan all the way to the owner, and should be of serious concern to anyone with any attachment to this team and its level of success. It clearly demonstrates that there are way too many people who think they have their hands on the wheel.

Katz clearly doesn't have the ability to cut dead weight, and seems focused more on collecting famous friends and elite hockey alumni than putting a winning product on the ice, either because he is meek and fears alienating these people, or lacks the constitution for critical action and conflict. Promoting people out of control positions and into his private collection while allowing them to have a voice and input into actual hockey decisions is ridiculous, and sends the wrong message. Both to the people being promoted, and more importantly to the people you hire to do the actual work.

I think we're in for a long long road here, and if we find any success, it will be solely on the players to find a way to succeed in spite of the mess happening above their heads.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

Can someone explain what this "Red Wine Summit" is? Do the OBC get trashed after every game?

 

[belair]

Can someone explain what this "Red Wine Summit" is? Do the OBC get trashed after every game?

It's a group of former players who get together and discuss all things current Oilers and have a direct line to the owner to bring forth their person opinion on things. Not part of this club is the current General Manager, but it does very likely include a couple of guys who sit at the boardroom table. It's a conflict of interest to put it lightly.