Management dysfunction - The mess Katz made

[ThePhoenixx]

I don't know of any that do communicate with their president/GM. I honestly don't know much about the senior management/owner interaction with other teams in the league.

I'm not sure what the point of the question was. If you really want to take the time to prove that all 30 teams the owners communicate with the president/GM then we can look at your original question. What was the point of the question? If you have taken the time and know the answer to your question kudos to you.

You don't know of any that communicate? The Sens owner and GM just did a town hall--a week ago.

Also, Nicholson was not talking about day to day. If you want to hear Nicholson speak on the subject, it is in his year end.

They all do. Owners don't have buffers and I'm not going to dig up 31 quotes. Perhaps you could find one or two quotes that prove me wrong. That would be a lot quicker than looking up 31. That would at least prove that Katz is not on an island.

However, If you think this is the norm then that's also fine. You are obviously ok with it, I'm not, so it doesn't really matter.

What's the point? It's like Nicholson is his mailman? He feels he needs a middle man to keep away from his President/GM? I thought Bob was hired to do an analysis of all things Oiler. That's what we were all told. That's why I was bemused to hear of this middleman mentality.

 

[shoop]

What's the point? It's like Nicholson is his mailman? He feels he needs a middle man to keep away from his President/GM? I thought Bob was hired to do an analysis of all things Oiler. That's what we were all told. That's why I was bemused to hear of this middleman mentality.

The point in black is who cares to ask what 30 other teams do? The dynamics of all the teams are going to be different due to ownership structure/team history/ fan base etc...

What's wrong with letter carriers? Why you gotta hate? :p

Nicholson spent a little less than a year analyzing the team and then Katz offered him a full time gig.

I don't get the bemusement. Can you prove Nicholson is hurting the team in his role? Two of the three best seasons since Katz bought the team have been since Nicholson joined the organization. Should the Oilers get rid of Nicholson just cuz?

I don't get cutting Nicholson for the sake of it. I think it's pretty clear from the end of year pressers that Chia gets another season. I hope Chia cans McLellan when the evaluation is complete. I just don't see what the issue with Nicholson is.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

The point in black is who cares to ask what 30 other teams do? The dynamics of all the teams are going to be different due to ownership structure/team history/ fan base etc...

What's wrong with letter carriers? Why you gotta hate? :p

Nicholson spent a little less than a year analyzing the team and then Katz offered him a full time gig.

I don't get the bemusement. Can you prove Nicholson is hurting the team in his role? Two of the three best seasons since Katz bought the team have been since Nicholson joined the organization. Should the Oilers get rid of Nicholson just cuz?

I don't get cutting Nicholson for the sake of it. I think it's pretty clear from the end of year pressers that Chia gets another season. I hope Chia cans McLellan when the evaluation is complete. I just don't see what the issue with Nicholson is.

Holy Strawman! Where did I say get rid of Nicholson? Like I said, your ok with that set-up. We'll just agree to disagree.

 

[shoop]

Holy Strawman! Where did I say get rid of Nicholson? Like I said, your ok with that set-up. We'll just agree to disagree.

I don't know what you are disagreeing about.

Nicholson is currently serving as the gatekeeper for information flowing to Katz. If he shouldn't be doing that what should he be doing?

I just don't understand the point of your questions.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I don't know what you are disagreeing about.

Nicholson is currently serving as the gatekeeper for information flowing to Katz. If he shouldn't be doing that what should he be doing?

I just don't understand the point of your questions.

What's the point in continuing with this conversation with you anymore. You jump all over the place and basically ignore my answers. Gatekeeper of info. lol Now I'm starting to think you are just some Oiler hack.

Like I said....your fine with it. That's OK. I feel no need to change your mind. Anyway, this conversation is really wasting my time. You can have the last word. Have a good one!

 

[FlameChampion]

How deep does nepotism run in this organization?



Melissa Lowe (Kevin's niece): Coordinator, Player Development for OEG
Talia Chiarelli (Peter's daughter): Coordinator, Live Entertainment for OEG

This is in addition to the Oilers giving scouting jobs to Chiarelli's brother, Messier's brother, and McLellan's father. Gretzky's brother is also the assistant GM but he at least has been around the league for years. Kevin's son Keegan is playing in the organization.

There was a poster in the comment section of Gregor's article from yesterday on Oilers Nation saying the son of Frank Jay (amateur scout) was given a scouting job, and Bob Green's stepson was also hired as a scout.

Are there any other family members employed by the Oilers?

I dont think Keith Gretzky should be lumped in because hes worked with Chiarelli before and while it looks like OBC hire, I am not sure it really is. Mike Chiarelli also been a scout for awhile, and from what I have heard hes decent.

But as for the rest, meh. Its probably not right to judge them because who knows maybe some of them actually do a good job. I just think it looks ridiculous. They should be hiring people based on merit, not because they are a family member. I think its a huge flaw with this organization, they dont take the hiring of staff members seriously and they arent picking the best qualified people. Unfortunately I think it happens a lot in other organizations. I just think the Oilers are probably one of the worst ones that do it.

 

[shoop]

What's the point in continuing with this conversation with you anymore. You jump all over the place and basically ignore my answers. Gatekeeper of info. lol Now I'm starting to think you are just some Oiler hack.

Like I said....your fine with it. That's OK. I feel no need to change your mind. Anyway, this conversation is really wasting my time. You can have the last word. Have a good one!

I really don't understand your point. Maybe there is another owner out there who doesn't deal directly with the GM/POHO, but maybe it's just a matter of semantics. If Nicholson had the POHO title would it change your view of the situation?

I don't think Katz is paying NIcholson to serve as a mailman so clearly Katz feels Nicholson provides more value than that. Nobody says you gotta waste your time doing anything.

 

[guymez]

The "Red Wine Summit" becoming a public issue is the most telling thing that's happened this season. I read more into publication with that as a topic than anything that has come out of a coach/gm/poho press conference.

It shows a level of disconnect from the causal fan all the way to the owner, and should be of serious concern to anyone with any attachment to this team and its level of success. It clearly demonstrates that there are way too many people who think they have their hands on the wheel.

Katz clearly doesn't have the ability to cut dead weight, and seems focused more on collecting famous friends and elite hockey alumni than putting a winning product on the ice, either because he is meek and fears alienating these people, or lacks the constitution for critical action and conflict. Promoting people out of control positions and into his private collection while allowing them to have a voice and input into actual hockey decisions is ridiculous, and sends the wrong message. Both to the people being promoted, and more importantly to the people you hire to do the actual work.

I think we're in for a long long road here, and if we find any success, it will be solely on the players to find a way to succeed in spite of the mess happening above their heads.

I completely agree.
I would like to believe that Katz' private collection (love that line BTW) was hands off in Chiarellis first year once he had his feet under him. So for me that means that they really didnt have any justification to interfere when the team was winning. That changed this season though.
For me the only solution to this is for there to be enough embarrassment from this recent reporting for the KPC to back off and for Chiarelli to elevate his game and definitively improve this team in short order.
Lots of pressure on Chiarelli right now. Much more than last season.

 

[guymez]

I'm seeing a lot of this "Why did no one think the OBC was interfering last year when the team was successful? Why is it only being brought up now?"

To be honest, it actually makes sense that the OBC would use this as a time to re-exert their influence within the organization. It makes it much harder for Katz to listen to opinions that differ from Chia's and Nicholson's when the team is actually successful, like it was last season. On the other hand, when things become a mess and there's more blame to go around (like this year) it's much easier for the OBC to try to get on Katz's good side again and to try change the direction of the team. Even if they didn't have a lot to do with past decisions, that doesn't mean that there isn't currently a power struggle going on. In fact, the failure of this season is probably the perfect catalyst for something like that to emerge.

This is what happens when there are so many titles and such an unclear organizational hierarchy.

Also, this has little to do with the actual competence of Chia/Nicholson/McLellan, or even just the Paul Coffey hire. This is more about WHO is making the decisions rather than what the actual decisions ARE. Speculation from Oilers media as well as from external media (Friedman), should warrant at least some examination and discussion of these issues.

In any case, let's hope that Chia had and still has full autonomy over the hockey ops of the Oilers. It's far less dangerous than the alternative.

Edit: We have no way of confirming if any of what is being discussed is true, but I would say it's fair to at least bring up given the rumblings in the media.

Good post.
Too many reports on this situation to ignore it. It also fits with the optics that have plagued this team since Katz became owner.

 

[bone]

You don't know of any that communicate? The Sens owner and GM just did a town hall--a week ago.

Any actions of Melnyk should never be an example as to what a good owner should do.

Frankly, I don't care if Katz talks to us, I think most owners of pro sport franchises don't. I do care if he allows unqualified people to run critical areas of the organization.

 

[rboomercat90]

I really don't understand your point. Maybe there is another owner out there who doesn't deal directly with the GM/POHO, but maybe it's just a matter of semantics. If Nicholson had the POHO title would it change your view of the situation?

I don't think Katz is paying NIcholson to serve as a mailman so clearly Katz feels Nicholson provides more value than that. Nobody says you gotta waste your time doing anything.

The issue seems to be that Katz prefers dealing with as few people as possible for whatever reason that may be. I also think it’s odd that he doesn’t directly deal with Chiarelli. I also find it odd (and frustrating) that the only times we’ve seen him in front of reporters was when he was begging City council for money. Whether it’s a wealthy thing or a weird thing he’s decided to separate himself from the regular folk and it appears he sees his GM as regular folk. I think this is likely where a lot of the dysfunction in the organization stems from. The guy at the top is just a myth to most of the people who work for him.

 

[Tyrolean]

The problem with rich owners is that if the fans keep on coming in spite of poor records then there is not much incentive to improve other than ego.