Management dysfunction - The mess Katz made

[PBandJ]

What the hell was that?

 

[guymez]

The Katz/Stauffer/Nicholson messaging machine is finally breaking down. No one ever wins a battle against the sports media, not even billionaires. This is going to get worse for all involved before it gets better.

Katz has a lot of pull.
He has essentially shut down any and all criticism on the media outlets directly associated with the team.

 

[belair]

So Todd and Peter did a bad job here because Coffey was hired over their head?

Is that the excuse now? Paul Coffey is the one who made several terrible franchise altering trades, signed Lucic for 7 years, signed Russell for 4 years, bet the farm on Slepyhsev, Benning, and Caggiula, capped out the team, ran the PP, ran the PK, was the one who refused to try McDavid + RNH for almost 3 years?

Exactly what does that meaningless hire have to do with the state of the team?

Holy f***, man. We know. You've said it 284 times in 68 threads. This isn't about the trades. This is about a group of people with no management experience with a direct line to the owner of the team. It's a bunch of guys hanging around all hoping to get some rings at some point while getting shit-canned at every game. How have you not clued into that yet?

 

[Soundwave]

The Katz/Stauffer/Nicholson messaging machine is finally breaking down. No one ever wins a battle against the sports media, not even billionaires. This is going to get worse for all involved before it gets better.

Lets be real ... Spector is a bit of a goof. Just because he drops some criticism doesn't mean it means anything to Katz, he's a fly on the windshield.

The funny thing is really what this is all about is him trying to say he supports Todd McLellan, he just did in the most round about way possible.

 

[belair]

I guess this proves the stories are bogus. Gretz isn’t drinking red wine.

He's channeling his inner Bear Grylls.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Katz has a lot of pull.
He has essentially shut down any and all criticism on the media outlets directly associated with the team.

Up until now. But you could tell neither Spector or Rishaug were scared of Stauffer, even as he tried to body them for daring question the org.

So sure, Katz still has pull on Baghdad Bob's strings. But when your fanbase has tuned him out after years of failure, what good does that do you?

 

[Del Preston]

I guess this proves the stories are bogus. Gretz isn’t drinking red wine.

Whisky during the game, red wine after.

 

[guymez]

Up until now. But you could tell neither Spector or Rishaug were scared of Stauffer, even as he tried to body them for daring question the org.

So sure, Katz still has pull on Baghdad Bob's strings. But when your fanbase has tuned him out after years of failure, what good does that do you?

I think that Spector backed off today. I think that was the purpose of having him on Oilers Now for an unscheduled segment so soon after he wrote the article.
I really like Rishaug though and he has more of an ability to speak out because TSN doesnt hold any rights to the team.
Katz has no influence on TSN.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Reinhart trade for one. Not absolving Chia of blame, my point was more that the OBC will always be involved in hockey operations in some way shape or form as long as Katz is owner.

This stuff about Lowe not being involved in hockey ops is a load of bs IMO. From the moment Coffey was brought in, I just knew that there would be a push for him to be hired to the coaching staff and I expect that to be announced in the coming weeks. I knew that MacT would be GM or coach again the moment he was brought back. I've come to accept it for what it is.

Well lets summarize a bit then. The Major moves in the Chia timeframe have been Hall-Larsson, Eberle-Strome, Lucic, Sekera additions. These are the major player changes during his tenure and ALL bear Chia's stamp. These are Chia type deals and nobody even doubts it. You mention one move with conjecture that it was OBC which we don't even know and that somehow offsets that Chia, himself, has radically altered the ship and is solely responsible for the very worst deals/hires?

I disliked the OBC as much as anybody. But I don't harbor vague notions they are pulling strings when they've all been replaced in the hierarchy.

 

[Soundwave]

Well lets summarize a bit then. The Major moves in the Chia timeframe have been Hall-Larsson, Eberle-Strome, Lucic, Sekera additions. These are the major player changes during his tenure and ALL bear Chia's stamp. These are Chia type deals and nobody even doubts it. You mention one move with conjecture that it was OBC which we don't even know and that somehow offsets that Chia, himself, has radically altered the ship and is solely responsible for the very worst deals/hires?

I disliked the OBC as much as anybody. But I don't harbor vague notions they are pulling strings when they've all been replaced in the hierarchy.

It actually would be the most Oiler-thing Oiler fans could do now. Blame guys that aren't probably even really doing anything and focus on them while giving a pass the people actually currently in charge.

Then 2-3 years from now realize how much damage has been done and then retroactively finally realize who should've been blamed.

There's a New Boys Club forming -- Chiarelli + McLellan + Woodcroft from the looks of things with Bobby Burgers making cameo appearances.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Lets be real ... Spector is a bit of a goof. Just because he drops some criticism doesn't mean it means anything to Katz, he's a fly on the windshield.

The funny thing is really what this is all about is him trying to say he supports Todd McLellan, he just did in the most round about way possible.

Oh there is no question Spec had an ulterior motive. He and TMacT are peas in a pod. But what does it tell you that a beat writer is willing to side with the head coach over the hand that feeds him, at least indirectly?

We've seen the local and national media get on Katz and the OEG this spring like at no time during the Decade of Darkness, and his only play is to have Stauffer read the "naughty boys" the riot act. The emperor has no clothes.

 

[belair]

Well lets summarize a bit then. The Major moves in the Chia timeframe have been Hall-Larsson, Eberle-Strome, Lucic, Sekera additions. These are the major player changes during his tenure and ALL bear Chia's stamp. These are Chia type deals and nobody even doubts it. You mention one move with conjecture that it was OBC which we don't even know and that somehow offsets that Chia, himself, has radically altered the ship and is solely responsible for the very worst deals/hires?

I disliked the OBC as much as anybody. But I don't harbor vague notions they are pulling strings when they've all been replaced in the hierarchy.

I'm having to agree with you here. It's not for the lack of it being possible, but its baseless speculation which will just ultimately lead to (more) meandering arguments.

 

[Drivesaitl]

With the bolded I completely 100% agree. Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl are they key to a lot of doors that were locked for us without them.

As for this season, if McDavid were to miss a significant portion of time to injury it just would've piled onto the issues that plagued a roster that under-performed in many facets this season. A PK that spent 50 games in the record books of being one of the worst all-time, a PP that scored 30 goals all year, an over-worked goaltender who posted a SV% well below his career norm, and a defense that failed to execute to the level they had in the previous season.

I am just as disappointed as anyone that we've missed the playoffs this year, but I'm not seeing the same pessimism regarding the majority of our roster. Especially in comparison to the 2015/16 season where our defensive structure and competitiveness still left a lot to be desired.

When you have two players like Connor and Leon who you've committed over a quarter of your payroll, you kind of have to expect them to carry more than their own bodyweight, which is why I see us realistically being successful with 'weaker' depth than other teams.

In the first place thank you for conducting the exchange with continued civility. Which should be the norm here in anycase. I do get the impression in the exchange you were at least open to competing information.

Talbot having a lower save percentage and the lousy pk were arguably one and the same thing. Most of the discrepancy in the Talbot numbers are explained by the pk being bad. That being said the team parted with Pouliot, a good pk, and played Pak not as much as expected, also a good pk. the org also I think misses some stability in the pk from guys like Lander and has also undergone the growing pains of having McD and Drai learn the pk duty. So that we have more rotation on the pk and so there going to be some difficulties but which make our best players better in the longrun. Its a sacrifice now for longterm gain getting our stars flexible and in all roles.

The PP numbers are somewhat explainable as well. People keep saying Eberle only scored 20 goals last year. Its not really the point. Last season teams had to respect still that Eberle is a goal scorer. He required coverage. this can open up some other stuff. We're also missing Maroon, Pouliot (again not many goals last year but can knock in some) and we're missing Lucic despite him being in the lineup..

I don't subscribe that McD and Drai can produce with anybody. Even star players in this league require competent seconds that they can work off. the third is not as important but there needs to be one player that can at least compliment the driver. they need somebody that can cycle, work a give and go. You can't have two wingers fumbling the puck continuously and sustain anything.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm having to agree with you here. It's not for the lack of it being possible, but its baseless speculation which will just ultimately lead to (more) meandering arguments.

Thank you again for the reasonable post and flexible thought. There is no basis, just conjecture. Its abundantly clear that the major decisions were Chia's and he's even said so. Plus that they are his trademark kinds of moves. Even with the additions Lucic was a Chia man, there is no doubt, that's all on him. One could argue Sekera is more of a mixed bag decision but that Chia spoke very highly of Sekera at the time and described how much he'd seen and liked the player.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think that Spector backed off today. I think that was the purpose of having him on Oilers Now for an unscheduled segment so soon after he wrote the article.
I really like Rishaug though and he has more of an ability to speak out because TSN doesnt hold any rights to the team.
Katz has no influence on TSN.

An opinion that gets stated here next to never. Put it on your signature..

jk aside its odd that you would defer to TSN that have zero contractual relationship with the Edmonton Oilers, do not have proprietary licence regarding the Oilers and who are not at all insiders regarding the Oilers.

Rishaug is reviled here as somebody simply willing to slam the Oilers for any reason he can think up and make up anything he can think up. Hands up here Oilers fans that think Rishaug has any credibility here. Lets ask Montoya..

 

[CM4]

An opinion that gets stated here next to never. Put it on your signature..

jk aside its odd that you would defer to TSN that have zero contractual relationship with the Edmonton Oilers, do not have proprietary licence regarding the Oilers and who are not at all insiders regarding the Oilers.

Rishaug is reviled here as somebody simply willing to slam the Oilers for any reason he can think up and make up anything he can think up. Hands up here Oilers fans that think Rishaug has any credibility here. Lets ask Montoya..

Why so defensive to the OBC? Nobody here is saying Tod and Peter are doing a good job at all. All Of them should be gone.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Why so defensive to the OBC? Nobody here is saying Tod and Peter are doing a good job at all. All Of them should be gone.

Heh, I'm hardly defensive of the OBC. My track record wouldn't be in believing in any recent Oilers management or coaching. I did like Krueger. Even liked Nelson.

I've explained my rationale. The major moves of the last 3 years, during the Chia regime have been Chia type moves. I've said that repeatedly and nobody even disputes it.

The premise that what is wrong with the Oilers NOW is influenced by OBC NOW is completely unsubstantiated.

If the OP makes a wild hypothesis the burden of proof is to at least substantiate the position. Using the word proof loosely, as we're seldom given inside info. But at least make some backing arguments to support the position. I at least do that when I take a position. No one has to agree with it, but at least expand on the premise. This thread has failed to do that.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I’m sure the glory gang gets their fingers in on what ever they can.
They should’ve been purged when MacT was removed as GM.

I’m also sure the moves that put us here were text book Chia.

The old boys club stuff is coming primarily from Spec and Rishaug.

These are Chia/MacLellan boys. I wouldn’t say there’s no truth to it, there probably is some.

But the timing...
Horrible season, Barzal headed for the Calder, Hall headed for the Hart, Looch headed for the scrap bin, no one being held accountable for these moves. People are angry.
Chia presser didn’t help, Bobby Burgers presser didn’t help...

What a perfect time for some palace intrigue to distract from the tire fire.

 

[CM4]

Heh, I'm hardly defensive of the OBC. My track record wouldn't be in believing in any recent Oilers management or coaching. I did like Krueger. Even liked Nelson.

I've explained my rationale. The major moves of the last 3 years, during the Chia regime have been Chia type moves. I've said that repeatedly and nobody even disputes it.

The premise that what is wrong with the Oilers NOW is influenced by OBC NOW is completely unsubstantiated.

If the OP makes a wild hypothesis the burden of proof is to at least substantiate the position. Using the word proof loosely, as we're seldom given inside info. But at least make some backing arguments to support the position. I at least do that when I take a position. No one has to agree with it, but at least expand on the premise. This thread has failed to do that.

Agree to disagree. IMO, the Oilers need a clean sweep of all upper management. A decade of proof that the leaders have no idea what there doing and personally I could careless what they did back in the 80s. It’s time to move on.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Agree to disagree. IMO, the Oilers need a clean sweep of all upper management. A decade of proof that the leaders have no idea what there doing and personally I could careless what they did back in the 80s. It’s time to move on.

I don't disagree. I wish they were all fired eons ago. I wish there were no OBC getting paid at all. Which has no bearing on my thinking they are relatively inconsequential in how the team is currently functioning, on decision making, etc.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Well lets summarize a bit then. The Major moves in the Chia timeframe have been Hall-Larsson, Eberle-Strome, Lucic, Sekera additions. These are the major player changes during his tenure and ALL bear Chia's stamp. These are Chia type deals and nobody even doubts it. You mention one move with conjecture that it was OBC which we don't even know and that somehow offsets that Chia, himself, has radically altered the ship and is solely responsible for the very worst deals/hires?

I disliked the OBC as much as anybody. But I don't harbor vague notions they are pulling strings when they've all been replaced in the hierarchy.

I've explained my rationale. The major moves of the last 3 years, during the Chia regime have been Chia type moves. I've said that repeatedly and nobody even disputes it.

The premise that what is wrong with the Oilers NOW is influenced by OBC NOW is completely unsubstantiated.

You make a claim like the bolded, attributing it due to your previous post where you state your major player changes. See first quote. However, you forgot the Reinhart deal. That one alone has OBC all over it.

You also forgot Maroon, Talbot, etc. for some reason.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You make a claim like the bolded, attributing it due to your previous post where you state your major player changes. See first quote. However, you forgot the Reinhart deal. That one alone has OBC all over it.

You also forgot Maroon, Talbot, etc. for some reason.

I didn't "forget" the Reinhart move, I alluded to it in my response to Cup. I also mentioned Talbot deal being a gift from Sather. What about Maroon? He's a good player, I gave credit to Chia for bringing him here. The best move he's made. However its the ONLY move he's made where he's clearly improved the team.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I didn't "forget" the Reinhart move, I alluded to it in my response to Cup. I also mentioned Talbot deal being a gift from Sather. What about Maroon? He's a good player, I gave credit to Chia for bringing him here. The best move he's made. However its the ONLY move he's made where he's clearly improved the team.

I'm not going to wade through your daily novel to find what you alluded to...

You made the claim. What of the Reinhart trade? Was that not major? Did that not be maybe, like just a smidgen, in the realm, like possibly, be a little bit due to the OBC?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I didn't "forget" the Reinhart move, I alluded to it in my response to Cup. I also mentioned Talbot deal being a gift from Sather. What about Maroon? He's a good player, I gave credit to Chia for bringing him here. The best move he's made. However its the ONLY move he's made where he's clearly improved the team.

and Reinhart was a gift from Bob Green

 

[Raoul Duke]

I didn't "forget" the Reinhart move, I alluded to it in my response to Cup. I also mentioned Talbot deal being a gift from Sather. What about Maroon? He's a good player, I gave credit to Chia for bringing him here. The best move he's made. However its the ONLY move he's made where he's clearly improved the team.

And pretty much negated it by letting Maroon walk due to the Looch contract.