Management dysfunction - The mess Katz made

[rboomercat90]

It's a group of former players who get together and discuss all things current Oilers and have a direct line to the owner to bring forth their person opinion on things. Not part of this club is the current General Manager, but it does very likely include a couple of guys who sit at the boardroom table. It's a conflict of interest to put it lightly.

What it is, is a wedge between an owner and a General Manager who apparently has little or no contact with the owner himself but communicates with him through Nicholson.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

I'm seeing a lot of this "Why did no one think the OBC was interfering last year when the team was successful? Why is it only being brought up now?"

To be honest, it actually makes sense that the OBC would use this as a time to re-exert their influence within the organization. It makes it much harder for Katz to listen to opinions that differ from Chia's and Nicholson's when the team is actually successful, like it was last season. On the other hand, when things become a mess and there's more blame to go around (like this year) it's much easier for the OBC to try to get on Katz's good side again and to try change the direction of the team. Even if they didn't have a lot to do with past decisions, that doesn't mean that there isn't currently a power struggle going on. In fact, the failure of this season is probably the perfect catalyst for something like that to emerge.

This is what happens when there are so many titles and such an unclear organizational hierarchy.

Also, this has little to do with the actual competence of Chia/Nicholson/McLellan, or even just the Paul Coffey hire. This is more about WHO is making the decisions rather than what the actual decisions ARE. Speculation from Oilers media as well as from external media (Friedman), should warrant at least some examination and discussion of these issues.

In any case, let's hope that Chia had and still has full autonomy over the hockey ops of the Oilers. It's far less dangerous than the alternative.

Edit: We have no way of confirming if any of what is being discussed is true, but I would say it's fair to at least bring up given the rumblings in the media.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

What it is, is a wedge between an owner and a General Manager who apparently has little or no contact with the owner himself but communicates with him through Nicholson.

I did find it surprising that Chia doesn't have direct access to Katz.

I guess only a former Oiler as GM would get that.

 

[rboomercat90]

I did find it surprising that Chia doesn't have direct access to Katz.

I guess only a former Oiler as GM would get that.

The funny thing is I wasn’t surprised at all.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's a group of former players who get together and discuss all things current Oilers and have a direct line to the owner to bring forth their person opinion on things. Not part of this club is the current General Manager, but it does very likely include a couple of guys who sit at the boardroom table. It's a conflict of interest to put it lightly.

Wheres the substantiation for this. Because I've yet to see it. Last week this was conjecture due to Spector or Rishaug, now its considered factual?

The Red Wine Summit to me is simply the OBC having a free bar and getting sauced during games. Maybe making some inane comments to each other about " how easy it should be to score goals and why are all these guys back in their own end, how ya gonna score from there?"

 

[oobga]

What the hell was that?

Definitely not red wine.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm seeing a lot of this "Why did no one think the OBC was interfering last year when the team was successful? Why is it only being brought up now?"

To be honest, it actually makes sense that the OBC would use this as a time to re-exert their influence within the organization. It makes it much harder for Katz to listen to opinions that differ from Chia's and Nicholson's when the team is actually successful, like it was last season. On the other hand, when things become a mess and there's more blame to go around (like this year) it's much easier for the OBC to try to get on Katz's good side again and to try change the direction of the team. Even if they didn't have a lot to do with past decisions, that doesn't mean that there isn't currently a power struggle going on. In fact, the failure of this season is probably the perfect catalyst for something like that to emerge.

This is what happens when there are so many titles and such an unclear organizational hierarchy.

Also, this has little to do with the actual competence of Chia/Nicholson/McLellan, or even just the Paul Coffey hire. This is more about WHO is making the decisions rather than what the actual decisions ARE. Speculation from Oilers media as well as from external media (Friedman), should warrant at least some examination and discussion of these issues.

In any case, let's hope that Chia had and still has full autonomy over the hockey ops of the Oilers. It's far less dangerous than the alternative.

Edit: We have no way of confirming if any of what is being discussed is true, but I would say it's fair to at least bring up given the rumblings in the media.

This is the best hypothetical description in the thread and while I've considered that dynamic that a losing season may bring out the critics and other factions that really is the way of the world. Have crash and burn quarterly or annual reports or returns and shareholders formerly not making noise will start making a lot of noise.

As oft suggested here Chia entered into untenable waters this season. You can't trade former stars like Hall and Eberle away and then crash and burn like the team did this season. That just can't happen from a credibility pov. You can't enact bad medicine deals and say "trust me" and then have those deals deepsix the club. You can't sign a bloated longterm contract to Lucic, your pet favorite, say that he's going to be replacing some Hall production and then have your guy fall flat on his face. Sekera signing is another one. Or even Klefbom extension.

What reason is there that people would have faith in Chia right now or would be doing anything but criticising his moves. Some owners would have canned his ass by now. If reins are pulled back on Chiarelli that might be a positive development. Too bad he ever had carte blanche. If he still has it, as Nicholson is stating he does, something more serious is wrong. An evaluative component would demand at this point that Chia is closely watched and that he has to sign off on decisions. Given his results that's how it should be. It seems the Org is still giving Chia more licence and autonomy than they should.

Chia has lost any trust and credibility. That would be the case anywhere. It was in Boston and for a fairly identical reason.

 

[Bangers]

This is the best hypothetical description in the thread and while I've considered that dynamic that a losing season may bring out the critics and other factions that really is the way of the world. Have crash and burn quarterly or annual reports or returns and shareholders formerly not making noise will start making a lot of noise.

As oft suggested here Chia entered into untenable waters this season. You can't trade former stars like Hall and Eberle away and then crash and burn like the team did this season. That just can't happen from a credibility pov. You can't enact bad medicine deals and say "trust me" and then have those deals deepsix the club. You can't sign a bloated longterm contract to Lucic, your pet favorite, say that he's going to be replacing some Hall production and then have your guy fall flat on his face. Sekera signing is another one. Or even Klefbom extension.

What reason is there that people would have faith in Chia right now or would be doing anything but criticising his moves. Some owners would have canned his ass by now. If reins are pulled back on Chiarelli that might be a positive development. Too bad he ever had carte blanche. If he still has it, as Nicholson is stating he does, something more serious is wrong. An evaluative component would demand at this point that Chia is closely watched and that he has to sign off on decisions. Given his results that's how it should be. It seems the Org is still giving Chia more licence and autonomy than they should.

Chia has lost any trust and credibility. That would be the case anywhere. It was in Boston and for a fairly identical reason.

I have to disagree with the bolded. If it gets to that point, you start negotiating what it's going to cost to buy him out (if it isn't already in his contract).

 

[harpoon]

Nobody disputed the Reinhart deal being influenced.

The reason a team has a General Manager is because he is responsible for all general management.
The reason teams hire guys from within the NHL is because they already know how to do the job and have established relationships and an accumulated knowledge base.
The reason Chiarelli fans want to pawn of the disastrous Reinhart trade onto someone else is that it exposes Chiarelli as a hockey executive with very little understanding of his own job, and apparently a very poor base of accumulated knowledge - not to mention a poor working relationship with other GMs.

MacT and Green could talk in his ear all day long. When you give up a first and second rounder in a deep draft for a no hoper like Reinhart there are only two possibilities.
Either you are a weak minded person who has allowed yourself to be swayed against your better judgement by guys who report to you and have just been 'relieved' for poor performance, or you have poor evaluating skills and inferior accumulated knowledge about the NHL player pool and your job description.

Posters can keep on spinning the yarn that Chiarelli isn't responsible because obc, but honestly that just makes him look like a bigger goof in my eyes.

 

[McDNicks17]

The reason a team has a General Manager is because he is responsible for all general management.
The reason teams hire guys from within the NHL is because they already know how to do the job and have established relationships and an accumulated knowledge base.
The reason Chiarelli fans want to pawn of the disastrous Reinhart trade onto someone else is that it exposes Chiarelli as a hockey executive with very little understanding of his own job, and apparently a very poor base of accumulated knowledge - not to mention a poor working relationship with other GMs.

MacT and Green could talk in his ear all day long. When you give up a first and second rounder in a deep draft for a no hoper like Reinhart there are only two possibilities.
Either you are a weak minded person who has allowed yourself to be swayed against your better judgement by guys who report to you and have just been 'relieved' for poor performance, or you have poor evaluating skills and inferior accumulated knowledge about the NHL player pool and your job description.

Posters can keep on spinning the yarn that Chiarelli isn't responsible because obc, but honestly that just makes him look like a bigger goof in my eyes.

To me, the Reinhart trade was just Chia putting too much trust in Green/MacT/whoever without doing his own due diligence.

I think that the notion he was held at gun point by the Old Boys to make that trade is pretty melodramatic.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

To me, the Reinhart trade was just Chia putting too much trust in Green/MacT/whoever without doing his own due diligence.

I think that the notion he was held at gun point by the Old Boys to make that trade is pretty melodramatic.

I mean, he was out East... Did he never watch Reinhart play?

 

[rboomercat90]

I have to disagree with the bolded. If it gets to that point, you start negotiating what it's going to cost to buy him out (if it isn't already in his contract).

Absolutely this. You can’t micromange your GM (or your coach), if you’ve lost confidence in him then it’s time to part ways.

 

[Stoneman89]

Absolutely. If you feel you need to sign off on his trades, why the hell do you have him employed anyhow? And are Nicholson or Katz even qualified to sign off on hockey trades? Chia and his band of reknown are supposed to be the informed ones. Saying that, I wish they would get rid of him.

 

[soothsayer]

Red Wine Summit? I've been calling it the Red Wine Soiree.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Red wine tsunami.

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

This should be a community owned team. I vote we don't trade nuge.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I mean, he was out East... Did he never watch Reinhart play?

Based on his AHL season that year..probably not
But Bob Green was his GM and saw him plenty in junior so that’s all these bozos needed to give up the farm for him

 

[Del Preston]

How deep does nepotism run in this organization?



Melissa Lowe (Kevin's niece): Coordinator, Player Development for OEG
Talia Chiarelli (Peter's daughter): Coordinator, Live Entertainment for OEG

This is in addition to the Oilers giving scouting jobs to Chiarelli's brother, Messier's brother, and McLellan's father. Gretzky's brother is also the assistant GM but he at least has been around the league for years. Kevin's son Keegan is playing in the organization.

There was a poster in the comment section of Gregor's article from yesterday on Oilers Nation saying the son of Frank Jay (amateur scout) was given a scouting job, and Bob Green's stepson was also hired as a scout.

Are there any other family members employed by the Oilers?

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Katz is a bad owner because he's hired three bad GMs in a row. It doesn't matter if he's a good person, bad person, whatever. You need to rely on your GM to build the team and he's chosen three poor choices in a row.

There's no "conspiracy" or "coup" or elaborate theory you need past that, lol. That is just getting stupid and silly.

Tambellini, Mac T, and Chiarelli are all bad GMs. Team is bad because of that. It's that simple.

Tambellini was a good GM.

 

[trent_vinyl]

I mean, he was out East... Did he never watch Reinhart play?

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

Burger Baron is still open?

 

[Oscar Acosta]

Yeah I noticed Chias daughter being coordinator a little while ago, a person who is all of 20 something years old and never had a job before. Must be nice.

 

[shoop]

I did find it surprising that Chia doesn't have direct access to Katz.

I guess only a former Oiler as GM would get that.

I thought part of the reason for hiring Nicholson was to keep Katz away from the day to day.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I thought part of the reason for hiring Nicholson was to keep Katz away from the day to day.

Do you know of any other owner(s) in the league that don't communicate with their president/GM?

 

[shoop]

Do you know of any other owner(s) in the league that don't communicate with their president/GM?

I don't know of any that do communicate with their president/GM. I honestly don't know much about the senior management/owner interaction with other teams in the league.

I'm not sure what the point of the question was. If you really want to take the time to prove that all 30 teams the owners communicate with the president/GM then we can look at your original question. What was the point of the question? If you have taken the time and know the answer to your question kudos to you.