Management dysfunction - The mess Katz made

[guymez]

I have had a few discussion off line with a few board members a few months back and at that time I was fairly certain that (at best) the only thing that was going to happen was a change in 1 or possibly 2 assistants.

After listening to the Press Conferences I have heard nothing that would lend me to change my mind.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if we see a peripheral change like Herbers being relieved of his duties but it will likely be done in such a way where the optics will be that he wanted to return to the U of A (or something to that effect).

So thats my prediction...1 assistant coach will be changed. Its all about optics.

EDIT:
New information coming out that the management structure of this team is apparently being run via the OBC....thus the change in thread title.
They may not be able to just replace 1 assistant coach and call it a day.
They might be forced to do a lot more if the curtain continues to get pulled back. The OBC was apparently kept on for a reason. So Katz can surround himself with the OBC, have a few drinks, and pull the Hockey Op strings from behind the scenes.

Katz may well prove to be the worst owner in the NHL.

Click to read more...

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I have had a few discussion off line with a few board members a few months back and at that time I was fairly certain that (at best) the only thing that was going to happen was a change in 1 or possibly 2 assistants.

After listening to the Press Conferences I have heard nothing that would lend me to change my mind.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if we see a peripheral change like Herbers being relieved of his duties but it will likely be done in such a way where the optics will be that he wanted to return to the U of A (or something to that effect).

So thats my prediction...1 assistant coach will be changed.

Herbers was on a 3 year leave of absence from the U of A which expired this season according to Stauffer. I don't think he will be back and to my knowledge he is their "eye in the sky" and really doing a coaching internship from the sounds of it.

Listening to Rishaugs podcast with Gregor last night where he says he believes there is an internal power struggle going on between Chiarelli and TMac over whether or not Woodcroft and Johnson get renewed. From the sounds of it TMac wants their contracts renewed and Chiarelli wants at least 1 new voice behind the bench (perhaps an associate coach?). I am not sure it will end well for TMac who may go down on his sword for his 2 assistants.

Reading the story Spec wrote I believe there is another power struggle between the OBC and Nicholson/Chiarelli.

Where there is smoke there is fire and for Rishaug and Spec to report on the same day there are internal power struggles of this nature does not bode well for this off season as someone will win but it is dysfunctional. It sounds like Nicholson won Round 1 (keeping Chiarelli) but there is a scrap going on over the assistant coaches. It would not surprise me to see TMac relieved of his duties if he digs his heels in over his assistants which in my opinion could be career suicide. Will be interesting to see how this plays out but it certainly speaks to major dysfunction within the organization starting at the top with ownership, and why should we be surprised to think that....

I do believe its time to move on from Dustin Schwartz the goalie coach and try to bring in someone who has a long and successful track record of working with goalies or at least get the guy who got Hellebuycks game back on track this summer.

 

[guymez]

Man...there is more going on than I was even remotely aware of. What an embarrassing mess.
A lot of us suspected the the OBC were still a strong and influential force in behind the scenes....this pretty much confirms that.

This all points to Katz. If he was able to put aside his bias none of this would be able to happen.
For a man capable of making some very intelligent business decisions he has sure managed to 'F' up the core management structure of this team.

The Oilers are an absolute embarrassment.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I could see MacT pushing for Todd to stay. IMO Katz can speak to these guys but take what they say with a big grain of salt. Let Chia change the coaching staff and if it fails get rid of him and the coaches and then re-hire MacT as GM (only this gong show of an org would do such a thing AGAIN).

 

[guymez]

I could see MacT pushing for Todd to stay. IMO Katz can speak to these guys but take what they say with a big grain of salt. Let Chia change the coaching staff and if it fails get rid of him and the coaches and then re-hire MacT as GM (only this gong show of an org would do such a thing AGAIN).

The optics are so bad having MacT and Lowe lurking around in the shadows I just dont see how Katz can continue down this road. Surely he must realize that this is going to impact the team moving forward.

I mean...what credible coach and GM would want to work in such a dysfunctional environment?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The optics are so bad having MacT and Lowe lurking around in the shadows I just dont see how Katz can continue down this road. Surely he must realize that this is going to impact the team moving forward.

I mean...what credible coach and GM would want to work in such a dysfunctional environment?

That's just it, really... We all dream of a Quenville or Fenton coming here but why? They don't have any control. They'd be better off staying in their own organizations.

It says a lot when Connor McDavid isn't a good enough to overshadow how corrupt the Oilers are.

 

[guymez]

That's just it, really... We all dream of a Quenville or Fenton coming here but why? They don't have any control. They'd be better off staying in their own organizations.

It says a lot when Connor McDavid isn't a good enough to overshadow how corrupt the Oilers are.

I agree. This has to change.
When Chiarelli was hired as POH I was convinced that was a sign that he had full control. Now I have no idea if thats true.
For example...was the Reinhart deal Chiarellis doing? Who the 'F' knows.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I agree. This has to change.
When Chiarelli was hired as POH I was convinced that was a sign that he had full control. Now I have no idea if thats true.
For example...was the Reinhart deal Chiarellis doing? Who the 'F' knows.

The scary thing is that both Yes and No answers to that question are frightening.

 

[oXo Cube]

I agree. This has to change.
When Chiarelli was hired as POH I was convinced that was a sign that he had full control. Now I have no idea if thats true.
For example...was the Reinhart deal Chiarellis doing? Who the 'F' knows.

My guess, and it's just a guess, is that at the time he probably did.

The teams performance this season and the widespread perception that Chiarelli dropped the ball big time has allowed the resident gremlins to worm their way back into Katz's sphere.

 

[guymez]

The scary thing is that both Yes and No answers to that question are frightening.

I dont agree with that. If Chiarelli doesnt have full control then we have no way of knowing the driving force of his decision making. It makes it much harder to judge his work with this team.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I dont agree with that. If Chiarelli doesnt have full control then we have no way of knowing the driving force of his decision making. It makes it much harder to judge his work with this team.

If he doesn't have control then the org is lying. If he did make that trade on his own, well... it speaks for itself.

It's not like his trades have been much better since when dealing with big assets.

 

[guymez]

My guess, and it's just a guess, is that at the time he probably did.

The teams performance this season and the widespread perception that Chiarelli dropped the ball big time has allowed the resident gremlins to worm their way back into Katz's sphere.

Could be but I keep looking back to the Reinhart deal...that just had the look and feel of an OBC decision.
If so then he was essentially neutered right from the start.

 

[guymez]

If he doesn't have control then the org is lying. If he did make that trade on his own, well... it speaks for itself.

It's not like his trades have been much better since when dealing with big assets.

Outside of the Reinhart deal the only trade I have an issue with (now) is the Hall trade.
Not going to go into it but I an convinced that the trade helped to shift Hall emotionally (he grew up) and that expedited emotional growth was a major part in his elevated play this season.
That unlikely shift for Hall made the deal look much worse in hindsight.
Hall was never even close to a hart candidate in Edmonton.

 

[dem]

This was destined to happen when the obc wasn't purged from the system.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I always believed and continue to believe that the Reinhart deal was all Green MacT Lowe Howson convincing Chiarelli it had to be done. Chia made the call and he even said Post trade he had to trust his advisors and scouts.

As I said in another thread, Nicholson and Chiarelli were the counselors helping Katz with his OBC addiction. Like an addict when things go bad you turn to your crutch and the OBC is Katz drug of choice.

The dysfunction here makes the White House look like an orderly military parade. In Ottawa at least you know who’s calling the shots.

Here, who the f*** knows anymore.

 

[guymez]

I always believed and continue to believe that the Reinhart deal was all Green MacT Lowe Howson convincing Chiarelli it had to be done. Chia made the call and he even said Post trade he had to trust his advisors and scouts.

As I said in another thread, Nicholson and Chiarelli were the counselors helping Katz with his OBC addiction. Like an addict when things go bad you turn to your crutch and the OBC is Katz drug of choice.

The dysfunction here makes the White House look like an orderly military parade. In Ottawa at least you know who’s calling the shots.

Here, who the **** knows anymore.

So true.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Our organization is now under the influence of not one but two cliques that mount nepotism and cronyism as their battle standard: the Old Boy's Club and the Hockey Canada Club. Both need to be purged ASAP, but what will really happen is they'll both be kept and continue to **** over our franchise.

 

[MoontoScott]

Man...there is more going on than I was even remotely aware of. What an embarrassing mess.
A lot of us suspected the the OBC were still a strong and influential force in behind the scenes....this pretty much confirms that.

This all points to Katz. If he was able to put aside his bias none of this would be able to happen.
For a man capable of making some very intelligent business decisions he has sure managed to 'F' up the core management structure of this team.

The Oilers are an absolute embarrassment.

I think it was the Dad who was the business brains but no matter, nepotism and idolatry don't work too well in any business situation.

As for firing a few assistant coaches well that's simply not going to fix the problems we see here. I think closing down the red wine lounge and telling Darryl and Bobby not to act like 12 year old groupies would be far more effective. The salient question remains--who exactly is running the show and could they please identify themselves.

 

[Spawn]

Could be but I keep looking back to the Reinhart deal...that just had the look and feel of an OBC decision.
If so then he was essentially neutered right from the start.

Chiarelli has precedent for that type of Reinhart deal in Boston though. Months before he was fired in Boston he traded two 2nd round picks for former 6th overall pick Brett Connolly who was already in bust status. I'm sure the OBC pushed for Reinhart, but it was Chiarelli who said he watched him in Bridgeport and said he was NHL ready.

Chiarelli has made far too many of the same mistakes across 2 organizations now for me to believe he isn't making the final decision. I'm sure the OBC has a voice in the room. But this team reeks of Peter Chiarelli's brand of incompetence.

Unfortunately we're in a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation.

Chiarelli is an incompetent fool. The longer he's in charge the more damage he's going to do.

But if he's fired, you just know that an 80s Oiler is going to be put in power. And we know how that works out.

Basically we're f***ed.

 

[Cloned]

Usually in a story like this, you get to have at least one protagonist to root for or side with.

Unfortunately, in this case, there are none. Does it really matter if TM, Chia, Nicholson, JJ, Woodcroft, et al. are caught in the middle of a power struggle? Or Gretzky, Coffey, Messier, Katz, Lowe, MacT?

There are only villains here.

 

[VainGretzky]

Would love to see these posts a few months back stating this .

 

[Aerrol]

In Ottawa at least you know who’s calling the shots.

Here, who the **** knows anymore.

Pick your poison - cheap, asshole of an owner who has multiple reports come out that he is a nightmare to work for and constantly meddles with hockey ops OR
Deep pockets owner who has an infatuation with the 80s Oilers to the point that he just continually adds them to the management team and adds more and more dysfunctional to this mess of a organization. I think Katz is still slightly better because there aren't any reports of him openly insulting his staff yet, and we haven't lost players due to cost...but man. What a mess.

 

[guymez]

I think it was the Dad who was the business brains but no matter, nepotism and idolatry don't work too well in any business situation.

As for firing a few assistant coaches well that's simply not going to fix the problems we see here. I think closing down the red wine lounge and telling Darryl and Bobby not to act like 12 year old groupies would be far more effective. The salient question remains--who exactly is running the show and could they please identify themselves.

I think the wine drinking events speak for themselves.

 

[Cloned]

I think the wine drinking events speak for themselves.

The Red Wine Summits. LMAO.

Some of the most surreal **** I've ever read.

Is this actually real life?

 

[guymez]

Chiarelli has precedent for that type of Reinhart deal in Boston though. Months before he was fired in Boston he traded two 2nd round picks for former 6th overall pick Brett Connolly who was already in bust status. I'm sure the OBC pushed for Reinhart, but it was Chiarelli who said he watched him in Bridgeport and said he was NHL ready.

Chiarelli has made far too many of the same mistakes across 2 organizations now for me to believe he isn't making the final decision. I'm sure the OBC has a voice in the room. But this team reeks of Peter Chiarelli's brand of incompetence.

Unfortunately we're in a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation.

Chiarelli is an incompetent fool. The longer he's in charge the more damage he's going to do.

But if he's fired, you just know that an 80s Oiler is going to be put in power. And we know how that works out.

Basically we're ****ed.

I have a more moderate take on Chiarelli but I agree with the rest of your post.

What a ****ing mess.